[Swriter]

Well, I'm doing my best to play it cool. I don't have much choice. I don't want to make the mistake of smothering her again. I mean, I don't want to totally blow her off (because as letmeno says, I'm sure she'll go find the attention elsewhere) but I'm not going to act like losing her is the end of the world. We'll see how tomorrow goes. She plays in a co-ed volleyball league every Monday night, and she usually asks me to come watch. I used to go to most of the games but didn't go last night. This weekend I made other plans with some buddies to watch football. I got a text message from her afterwards telling me how it all turned out. I think that's a good sign, as long as she wasn't hanging out with one of the guys on her team that has been ALL OVER HER for months! Wildcat, how do you deal with stuff like that? I know this guy has just been waiting for me to get out of the picture. Do you just say screw it and not worry about if you wants to start dating him?

It certainly is a fine line to walk.

[Swriter]

I'm still hanging in there Wildcat but I just don't know about this... She's already stopped by here once today and we chatted. I ended the conversation, but I must say it was pretty much pointless. Just general information exchange. Same thing with a string of emails that have been sent back and forth. The hardest part is feeling slightly off my game. I feel like I'm trying too hard to be cocky and funny when she's around, and she's just not taking the bait. She laughs, but it's forced. At least I keep trying to bust her balls. I think she smells the uncomfortableness, though. What do I do about that? If I were initiating the contact I would stop, but she is so how do I get out of the situation? This is frustrating. Another test, I guess... And when, if ever, do I ask her out again? I don't really want to anytime soon, but I also don't want her to think we're in the friend zone... Let's hear it Wildcat!

[Wildcat21]

Well, if the guy has been trying for months he must be a massive Wuss!! For woman, it's almost INSTANT if they like you or not. All this guys attention means NOTHING if she has no feelings for him. Time generally never matters - either almost immediately she has feelings for you OR not. Yes, she may enjoy this guys attention - but from what you have said - he has ZERO chance. This guy should have closed the deal immediately - and he didn't - he's OUT.

WELL - that's WAY too much commuication - string of e-mails?? Yuck - you're doing the same crap ALL over again. Too much attention. Just don't return them - your busy. You're making the same mistakes. This WAY too much communication - YUCK!! Stop that. You really should only be exchanging communications twice a week. You may be I nthe friend zone with the e-mails and text. Quit answering them.

You're just confusing her with the cocky funny - which is great. Be indifferent. You REALLY need to read David Deangelos book at www.doubleyourdating.com. Keep it up -if anything it's good practice.

When you do go out - it'sd something casual - NO DINNERS - not for a long time. If a woman is interested she will go do anything with you. Coffee and stimulating conversation.

[Swriter]

Well, I know she has some interest in this guy. In fact (and I didn't know this at the time), we both made our play for her at the same time. It worked out better for me, but he's always been around and I know he's trying. I know she likes his attention. She flirts with him a lot and always talks about how he's a great guy. I hope you're right that this shows that he's not much of a threat.

The problem with communicating so infrequently is that she works a couple buildings away from me. It's too easy for her to just stop by, call or email. If I respond (and I don't always), I try to keep it light and keep it fast. Just be a little cocky and funny but don't get into anything heavy and try not to talk about what I'm doing everyday. I do occasionally remind her that we're not going to be good buddies, though if this doesn't work out. No way...

I think the trouble is that we were talking all the time before and now we're pulling back. Maybe it will take some time to get used to how this is going to work out.

[Wildcat21]

Dude - she would have been with him alreay. She's trying to make you jealous and test your jealousy factor - which seems to me is sky high and she knows it. If you're a man, confident, other guys shouldn't matter and she WOULD know this and want you more. Women HATE jealous guys. This guy shouldn't even be a factor in your mind, because IF she wanted to be with him she would have already - he's a Wuss. Woman don't want 'great guy'. If that guy had any game he would have been with her.

Quit responding to all the commuication - your busy - that MASSIVE Wuss boy behavior - massive.

Pulling back is good - you become a challenge again.

[Swriter]

I see what you're saying about her and this other guy. In fact, whenever she flirts with him and I'm around it's almost too obvious. I mean, it so blatant that it must be for show...

Well, so far pulling back has been easy. I mean, I never have to do any work. She stops by my work 3 times a day. It wouldn't be nearly as annoying if she wasn't just talking about herself, all the stuff she's doing and being stand-offish. Honestly, why come to see me then? I make these cocky/funny comments showing her that I'm not that into her and she just acts like she can have any guy she wants. Whatever dude... Today she was even talking about how we should get together later in the week. I said that I wasn't sure if I could because I had a busy week coming up. She came by later to tell me that it was a bad idea anyway. What a freak.

Luckily I'm going to be out of town this weekend so I don't have to be around her or worry about if I should ask her out if she is going to ask me out (and I think I'd have to decline). My question is... how long do I go on blowing her off? How long do I refrain from asking her out, ending any conversations earlier than she wants, not answering her calls or emails, not calling her back right away (or at all). Days? Weeks? Months? Or just until either she can't take it any more or I find someone else? As letmeno said, if I keep blowing her off, eventually she'll just go find someone else, right?

[Wildcat21]

See - you're trying to get your power back from her. You'll know when it's right to ask to 'HANG OUT'. (no dates, absolutely no dinners).

I suspect you realize right now is not a good time. Probably a couple weeks. DON'T WORRY ABOUT TIME!! It took me over 5 months to get my gal back completely. (3 months zero contact)

Don't answer her calls or text messages over the weekend - you'er busy. (but I suspect you will) - it will make her go crazy.

See - she's a player - she knows all this stuff - she keeps up a great front in front of you - I suspect she is wondering why you're acting the way you are now... but she is a pro - I suspect she is wondering why your not all needy all of a sudden.

See - you need the feeling AND ATTITUDE that YOU are the PRIZE - not her. Not her.

These aren't games. These are ways to get your power back. That's what we are doing here.

See - you're acting like a Wuss now. Don't worry about time, absolutely don't worry about communication - you've done way too much of it - you want to give much less of yourself.

[Wildcat21]

"As letmeno said, if I keep blowing her off, eventually she'll just go find someone else, right?"

This should not matter IF you behave properly - don't act all needy, quit the communication to only a couple a week, be busy, go out, even date (yes!! ).

You're trying to rebuild attraction - she wants this MORE than you do and again was totally bummed out you turned into a Wuss.

I guess you want to go back to your old tactics - tell me how that goes for you??

This is change and it is a change for LIFE. Woman don't want the soft sensitive guy - never. Get rid of that guy now!!

[Swriter]

I know this is probably hard to believe, since I've been acting like such a WUSS, but I'm finally getting it now. The problem before was that I was trying to convince myself (and her) of all of these things.

That I'm the prize, not her. That she should want to see me all the time because she can't do better. That I can make it just fine without her. That I'm not needy and insecure. That her tests to make me jealous are no big deal. That I can get her back eventually, but it will be on my terms. But now I actually believe it. I know it's true. Tonight is the first night in a while where I'm not checking the phone and email to see if she tried to contact me. I bet she won't, but so what! This is where it starts. After a few weeks I'm sure she'll be all over me.

Yes, I want my power back. I'm not going to see her or ask her out. If she calls, I'm not going to answer. I'll make no effort to see her or contact her. And if she comes by to see me, I'll be on the go. I am a busy guy! I doubt that she'll send me any text messages this weekend, but even if she does I won't answer. I know you don't believe this, but I do! I'll be out of town at a wedding with my college buddies. I won't want to be talking to her! I know I'm up to this challenge.

Another problem is that I was trying to use logic to figure this out. That is a bad idea! There is no logic here. As letmeno said... she doesn't have a clue what she wants anyway. That changes daily and who knows what causes it. Certainly not me...

I guess I was worried about it being awkward because we work for the same company and we see each other a lot. I was also worried because we had sex pretty early on and she claims not to do that very often. I was worried that she'd regret it. But, now... You know what? I don't care so much. I won't feel awkward, even if she thinks it's weird. And, she made her decision to have sex. It's too late to worry about it now. So be it, that's all in the past.

No, I think I should be OK for a while... Top notch advice as usually wildcat. I guarantee, I'm not going back to wuss boy.

[Swriter]

Here's a good one for you Wildcat. Just got a text from her (and I'm not responding).

"You were such a smart today. I bet you think it's intriguing and endearing. It's not. It's annoying."

Love it!

[Wildcat21]

Dude... that WAS A GOOD thing there. Changing the power. Keep it up.

Can you SAY a TEST?? Yes - she is looking for an apology from Wuss Boy.

She wouldn't have sent that if she cared.

The thing I don't get is all her contact??

And it's not annoying - it shows you're a confident guy who is not afraid to say something funny OR off the wall AND WORRY AT ALL WHAT SHE MIGHT THINK. Get it?

She's used to guys, like the guy she tries to make you jealous with, to sucking up to her, compliments etc.

Do thing different.

If she brings it up tell her "what are you talking about?" - you got to come up with a snappy answer - trust me.

You're turning int a challenge again.

[Swriter]

Yeah, I didn't even respond to her text. Whatever. If she brings it up to me I'll just tell her... if she can't handle me being a smart she might want to stop talking to me now because it's only getting worse from here!

I don't get her contact either. Why the hell is she stopping by to see me 3 times a day when all she does is either about stuff or act kind of mean and stand-offish. Do me a favor then... don't bother. I don't care if she stops by or not. She's not doing any favors for me by doing that. Maybe she thinks we're already in the friend zone. Sorry but I'm not looking to provide her with therapy.

[Wildcat21]

I assume you listened to all her problems before??

NEVER do that again early on - change the subject OR, even better, say that's boring. Say it's boring now.

[letmeno]

Not going to the volley ball game was a good move. She texted you afterward, it means that she missed you there.

The other guy, well that is adding a little bit more to the story. She needs some time to figure out what it is that she wants. This is where you need to administer a test of your own. Find you another focal point. What I mean is find someone else to date, or find another female friend. I can't for the life of me figure it out but to women a really attractive guy is an unavailable guy. (this is so sad, I am actually advising you to use a woman!) I am only speaking from a woman's p.o.v. but this may cause her to actually freak out that you may actually be intrested in someone else other than her. It's a gamble either way but if someone were chasing me and all of a sudden turned his attention to another woman, I would be pissed. She will size the other woman up, convince herself that she is way hotter and go in for the kill. Women are catty like that, don't know why. Just a suggestion.

[Wildcat21]

1. Attraction - Hey letmeknow - wouldn't you say almost instantly woman decide if they like someone ore not. A guy literally only has a few minutes before he is put in the 'friend zone' for ever?? I thinks it's VERY rare for a guy to get out of the friend zone. It's attraction and she either thinks of you as a lover or friend - and it's next to impossible to change her mind. I really think this gal is just playing the other guy - he was too much of a Wuss to get here. Swriter doesn't have to worry about him.

2. I don't think it's a gamble at all to date another woman. It's all good. She will go crazy - especially since he is evicting his inner WUSS. She will get jealous. Plus, maybe you like this new gal better?? She will see him in a new light - HEY other woman like this guy as well - he must be something - it recrerates him being the prize.

[letmeno]

In the first 5 minutes of an initial meeting we already know if we can see ourselves sleeping with you or not... granted that you don't say anything stupid.

You are put in the friend zone if we are not sexually attracted to you but you have some qualities that we do like i.e. funny, quick witted, amusing, etc. The chances of coming out of the friend zone into the more than a friend zone are very slim but, it does happen. If we happen to see you in a different light or something of that nature.

I had a guy literally chase me for years. He was a really wonderful guy, a complete gentleman, he wasn't @ all unattractive, he was very funny, generous and had a lot of qualities that I did find great about him. I just wasn't attracted to him in that way. We are still friends till this day (5 years later) but the chances of him coming out of the friend zone are 0.

[Wildcat21]

YES, exactly. I've asked 100's women and I always get the same response.

GUYS!! If you're attracted to her - first impression is all that matters.

Very rare to get out of that friend zone.

[Swriter]

Yeah, there were definitely times when I listened to her crap. Trying to either fix problems or stay out of her way when she was in a bad mood. I know, I know. Wussy. Well, not any more...

Well, I know that in the first 5 minutes she was attracted to me. She may not be now and maybe thinks we can just be friends. I won't do it, though. There isn't anything in it for me. In fact, I don't think guys can really be friends with girls. They always think there might be a chance that something more could happen. I know that's how I am, anyway. If a girl just wants to be friends, I'd rather focus my energy elsewhere.

I assume you listened to all her problems before????

NEVER do that again early on - chnage the subject OR, even better, say that's boring. Say it's boring now.

[Swriter]

Ok, Wildcat, Kingpin and letmeno, what do you think of this one? Before I could even finish my morning cup of coffee she was in my office. Again, I did everything I could to keep the conversation light, and most importantly, short. I said I had to run off and meet someone and that I had to go. That's when she started laying into me. She called me crabby and asked me what my problem was these past few days. I said there was nothing wrong and that I wasn't crabby. Just like any other day... My question is... is this the best approach?

I mean, I have no interest in the drama and arguing about what's been going on between us lately. It's been unsaid thus far and I think that's a good thing. I don't want her to think that this has entered my reality AT ALL. So, I'm not going to fight about it and so far I've just lied and said that there is nothing going on. Basically I'm letting her believe that any perceived change in my behavior (bye bye wuss boy) is all in her head. I'm the same guy as before. But is there some middle ground? Without getting into anything too heavy, should I be breaking her balls about it? Playfully tease her about how clearly things are different but whatever... I don't know. Maybe that's impossible and just lying about it and continuing to be unavilable is the best thing. What do you guys think?

[Wildcat21]

Brush it off - it's a test. AGAIN - she's looking for Wuss Boy.

And, I think you said it - trying to put you in the friend zone so she dumb her problems on you - DON'T ALLOW THIS!! Don't.

But, if you're doing it right, you shouldn't come across as crabby.

She's looking gfor the 'nice guy' friend.

ALWAYS say - everything's GREAT!! Remember - asnwer these questions with a question - "Why are you so crabby now?" or even "Why do you dump you're silly problems on me?" Answer the question with a question.

Walk away also - get up and get coffee - "Everything is GREAT, Bye"

No fights - she's testing you, plus, woman love use their emotions - this is a goof thing.

Nope - 'Nice guy' for now - I don't think you get this yet at all - please down load David Deangelos book at www.doubleyourdating.com - seriously.

You sound like you're going to break - this a new attitude with woman.

Keep doing it - she keeps coming around, but it's NOT BEING MEAN!!

Keep it light - make fun, tease. Always. OR, you won't get her and won't get other women. It's learn the rules. Eventually it will be seconf nature.

You don't quit get that woman don't want the 'nice guy'.