[speechlesstx]

If they take over the world, of course, they'll establish Islam as the global religion...

Yes sir that is correct. They say so every day.

What? If Christians take over the world, you WOULDN'T impose your religion on everybody??

No sir, there is zero evidence that Christians want to impose their religion on the world. It goes AGAINST our religion you goofy nut. The whole basis for our religion is a voluntary relationship with God.

You want to do that NOW, and you took over NOTHING!

Exactly how do I want to impose my religion on you, by fighting for the rights of unborn children and defending religious freedom? Hmm?

[excon]

Yes sir that is correct. They say so every day.

Hello again, Steve:

Let me explain how BOTH you and Herman Cain DON'T grasp our vaunted Constitution.. You are to be forgiven. HE isn't.

On Fox News Sunday, he said, "they are using the church part of our First Amendment to infuse their mosque in our community."

He seems to think OUR First Amendment protects US from THEIR mosque, whereas in Constitutional reality, THE First Amendment protects THEIR mosque from US. He's got it exactly BACKWARDS.

Plus, he bases his determination on the fact that Islam is BOTH a religion AND a set of laws, and that's what makes it DIFFERENT than our "traditional" religions, where it's just about "religious purposes"...

However, being a member of one of those traditional religions, it's instructive to point out that the literal translation of the word Talmud, is "THE LAW".

So, not only is Herman Cain WRONG about the Constitution, he's WRONG about Jews.

excon

[smoothy]

Of course that's not happening when they (the left and the Muslims) outlaw celebrations of Christmas now is it?

[Wondergirl]

Of course that's not happening when they (the left and the Muslims) outlaw celebrations of Christmas now is it?

Where do you live? I celebrate Christmas every December 25th.

[speechlesstx]

Lemme explain how BOTH you and Herman Cain DON'T grasp our vaunted Constitution.. You are to be forgiven. HE isn't.

Stay focused here my friend, I said I'll let Cain defend himself. I'll let you and he fight it out.

Where we just left was you said I wanted to impose my beliefs on you and I asked you how I'm doing that, considering it's against my religion to impose my beliefs on you. I said nothing about the constitution nor did I violate it. So how am I imposing my religion on you?

[smoothy]

Where do you live? I celebrate Christmas every December 25th.

You are lucky enough to live in one of the places that haven't tried to abolish all reference to it... YET.

[Wondergirl]

You are lucky enough to live in one of the places that haven't tried to abolish all reference to it......YET.

Tell me more about your situation and how "they" have abolished it where you live.

[smoothy]

Tell me more about your situation and how "they" have abolished it where you live.

Simply read the news... schools have time to waste for a Winter Holiday celebration... as long as any mention of Christ or Christmas is avoided.

Heaven forbid a Christmas tree be put up... or a manger scene. And strange how the same people so set on preventing Christmas from being called Christmas or celebrated as Christmas... very hypocritically seem to want to celebrate it themselves.

Those who think KWANZA is actually a real holiday or anything of real significance are one of them.

Odd they didn't pick August to celebrate that farce. They try to eliminate and appropriate an existing holiday instead.

Simply scan the news... there are plenty of examples to choose from.

Many of them are from Atheists who simply can stand that others have real holidays and they don't. I bet many of them still buy gifts for their demon offspring... and pretend its for something else.

I'm of the opinion, if YOU don't want to celebrate someone's holiday... then don't. You don't have a right to prevent others from doing it.

I don't and won't celebrate Ramadan... but you don't see me trying to make it illegal for them to do it.

[Wondergirl]

Simply read the news... schools have time to waste for a Winter Holiday celebration... as long as any mention of Christ or Christmas is avoided.

Those are public schools. All the Christian parochial church schools celebrate Christmas (and observe Advent). The Islamic church schools celebrate and observe their special times.

Heaven forbid a Christmas tree be put up... or a manger scene.

Why should they be? Those are Christian symbols.

Those who think KWANZA is actually a real holiday or anything of real significance are one of them. Odd they didn't pick August to celebrate that farce. They try to eliminate and appropriate an existing holiday instead.

Kwanzaa was not created to eliminate Christmas.

I'm of the opinion, if YOU don't want to celebrate someone's holiday... then don't. You don't have a right to prevent others from doing it.

So you're saying Christian holidays must be celebrated (or ignored) by the general public, and must be "out there" in everyone's face. No other religious groups' holiday celebrations or observances have any merit. By the way, Ramadan is an observance, not a celebration.

[excon]

Simply read the news...schools have time to waste for a Winter Holiday celebration....as long as any mention of Christ or Christmas is avoided.

Hello again, smoothy:

Here's how both YOU and Herman Cain have NO clue what your vaunted Constitution says... It's kind of simple, really. That's WHY they used small words. It says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." Really, it SAYS that...

That's WHY public schools -- PUBLIC SCHOOLS (that would BE the government) -- cannot "establish" a religion... Celebrating a CHRISTIAN holiday is a clear violation of that provision... Now, I know you don't understand that... That's OK... I'll repeat it here as many times as necessary.

But, the FACT is, you don't seem to make the distinction between PUBLIC and PRIVATE celebrations of Christmas, and you LOVE playing the victim saying that we're trying to ban Christmas... That's silly. Christians, FOR SURE, ain't victims in this great country of ours...

excon

[tomder55]

The 1st amendment alone would not restrict schools from this since they are state run. The broad interpretations of the 14th amendment is what justifies these restrictions... and it wasn't until the 1925, Gitlow v. New York case that the 1st amendment establishment clause became a liberty incorporated in the due process clause of the 14th.Prior to that some of the states had official religions ;although by the time of the Civil War they had been dropped from the State constitutions.

Subsequent cases cemented the intolerance to religion in the school systems.

BTW Christmas is listed as an official Federal Holiday .Some schools call it 'Winter Holiday ' ;but it is certainly permissible under Fed law to call Dec 25th Christmas.

[twinkiedooter]

So who cares if they are bigots? What I care about is the person HONEST and trustworthy - or am I asking too much of ANY politician as they must prove they are dishonest and blackmailable in order to hold ANY elected office.

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

Here's how both YOU and Herman Cain have NO clue what your vaunted Constitution says... It's kinda simple, really. That's WHY they used small words. It says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." Really, it SAYS that...

That's WHY public schools -- PUBLIC SCHOOLS (that would BE the government) -- cannot "establish" a religion... Celebrating a CHRISTIAN holiday is a clear violation of that provision... Now, I know you don't understand that... That's ok... I'll repeat it here as many times as necessary.

But, the FACT is, you don't seem to make the distinction between PUBLIC and PRIVATE celebrations of Christmas, and you LOVE playing the victim saying that we're trying to ban Christmas... That's silly. Christians, FOR SURE, ain't victims in this great country of ours....

excon

Ex... try reading those words... When has the government mandated WHAT church you WILL attend? You know... Like the Church of England was way back when.

Those words really are pretty obvious. The constitution is written in plain English... not Lawyerese.

[Wondergirl]

When has the government mandated WHAT church you WILL attend?

No, the government isn't, but some people are pushing Christianity on public property. If a Christian symbol is allowed on government or public property, then also should a star of David, a crescent and star, a yin-yang, a Dharmachakra (Buddhism), an S imposed over two triangles (Scientology), and so on, since our country is populated by people who value those various religious symbols.

[excon]

So who cares if they are bigots? What I care about is the person HONEST and trustworthy

Hello twink:

That would be what I care about too..

However, a bigot is a person who judges another based on his LOOKS, instead of what's in his soul. To me, that is inherently DISHONEST, and doesn't demonstrate ANY trust.

excon

[smoothy]

No, the government isn't, but some people are pushing Christianity on public property. If a Christian symbol is allowed on government or public property, then also should a star of David, a crescent and star, a yin-yang, a Dharmachakra (Buddhism), an S imposed over two triangles (Scientology), and so on, since our country is populated by people who value those various religious symbols.

But its OK for atheists to force their viewpoints on those of us during OUR holidays... rather than minding their own business by DEMANDING we do it THEIR way or no way at all?

I'd like to see anyone show evidence where we forcibly made an atheist put up Christmas decorations and celebrate the holiday with their family in their house.

They are free to NOT celebrate it if they wish.

Besides in the spirit of the outrage because someone didn't want to hire a Muslim.

It's the entire concept of affirmative action that has resulted in post offices and government offices staffed with people that have insurmountable trouble with being able to tie their own shoes in the morning. Because they were told to hire people not on qualifications... but to meet some politicians donation selected quota.

[Wondergirl]

But its OK for atheists to force their viewpoints on those of us during OUR holidays... rather than minding their own business by DEMANDING we do it THEIR way or no way at all?

What are the atheists doing??

I'd like to see anyone show evidence where we forcibly made an atheist put up Christmas decorations and celebrate the holiday with their family in their house.

Some Christians want to smack the atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics, Shintoists, Wiccans, etc. in the face with public displays of Christian holidays.

[speechlesstx]

Some Christians want to smack the atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics, Shintoists, Wiccans, etc. in the face with public displays of Christian holidays.

Celebrating federal holidays such as Christmas and Thanksgiving is not smacking them in the face.

[Wondergirl]

Celebrating federal holidays such as Christmas and Thanksgiving is not smacking them in the face.

Why don't we celebrate the holidays of other religions?

Thanksgiving isn't a Christian holiday.

[speechlesstx]

Why don't we celebrate the holidays of other religions?

Face it, Christianity is the most prominent religion in the United States and always has been. No revisionist history is going to change that. I don't feel one bit sorry for the poor afflicted souls that have to tolerate Christian displays, it is a huge part of our culture.

If I'm in someone else's place and their culture is different I respect that. I wouldn't try to force them to give up their heritage, their culture, their beliefs because I've been victimized. Why can't they just respect ours?

Thanksgiving isn't a Christian holiday.

A little history...

The First Thanksgiving Proclamation

June 20, 1676

"The Holy God having by a long and Continual Series of his Afflictive dispensations in and by the present Warr with the Heathen Natives of this land, written and brought to pass bitter things against his own Covenant people in this wilderness, yet so that we evidently discern that in the midst of his judgements he hath remembered mercy, having remembered his Footstool in the day of his sore displeasure against us for our sins, with many singular Intimations of his Fatherly Compassion, and regard; reserving many of our Towns from Desolation Threatened, and attempted by the Enemy, and giving us especially of late with many of our Confederates many signal Advantages against them, without such Disadvantage to ourselves as formerly we have been sensible of, if it be the Lord's mercy that we are not consumed, It certainly bespeaks our positive Thankfulness, when our Enemies are in any measure disappointed or destroyed; and fearing the Lord should take notice under so many Intimations of his returning mercy, we should be found an Insensible people, as not standing before Him with Thanksgiving, as well as lading him with our Complaints in the time of pressing Afflictions:

The Council has thought meet to appoint and set apart the 29th day of this instant June, as a day of Solemn Thanksgiving and praise to God for such his Goodness and Favour, many Particulars of which mercy might be Instanced, but we doubt not those who are sensible of God's Afflictions, have been as diligent to espy him returning to us; and that the Lord may behold us as a People offering Praise and thereby glorifying Him; the Council doth commend it to the Respective Ministers, Elders and people of this Jurisdiction; Solemnly and seriously to keep the same Beseeching that being perswaded by the mercies of God we may all, even this whole people offer up our bodies and soulds as a living and acceptable Service unto God by Jesus Christ."

By the President of the United States of America.

A Proclamation.


Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness."

Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted; for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations, and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shown kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally, to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine.

G. Washington.

President Abraham Lincoln's Proclamation of Thanksgiving

Issued, October 3, 1863

The year that is drawing towards its close has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God.

In the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to invite and provoke the aggressions of foreign States, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere, except in the theater of military conflict; while that theater has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union.

The needful diversions of wealth and strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defense have not arrested the plough, the shuttle or the ship. The axe has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battlefield; and the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom.

No human counsel hath devised, nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy.

It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and voice by the whole American people; I do, therefore, invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a Day of Thanksgiving and Prayer to our beneficent Father, who dwelleth in the heavens. And I recommend to them that, while offering up the ascriptions justly due to him that, for such singular deliverances and blessings; they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it, as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes, to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility, and union.

In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the city of Washington this third day of October, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and of the independence of the United States the eighty-eighth.

Abraham Lincoln.

By the President: William H. Seward, Secretary of State.

The list goes on. Maybe it isn't a Christian holiday, but it is certainly one devoted to giving thanks to our Lord and God.