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And it's also not just about changing.. it's about the fact that we want totally different things. He wants to bring up his children as Muslims. He still doesn't agree with most of the things I want to do (like the whole clubbing thing and wearing clothes I want etc) so that would still cause a massive rift between us, the arguments would go on and on and even if I did go clubbing think how he'd be feeling? WHY DOES THIS HAVE TO HAPPEN He is not a bad person!! I love him so much! He is in so much pain right now and so am I and GOD I don't know what to do! Things were really rubbish before when we were together, and I'm just not convinced that they could ever get better!! |
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 Originally Posted by eveamee09
Sometimes they try to change. I'm so sad for you and for him. What does your heart tell you? What does your head tell you? You are ultimately going to have to make the decision. Can you picture your life without him? What if you do give him another chance and he changes? What if he doesn't? Ten years from now where do you think you'll be? You are miserable right now and so is he. When was the last time you were truly happy? I'm only asking you this because if there is any chance this could work out and he would change could you be happy again? His religion is a great part of his life. You wouldn't ask him to change that. He has been brought up that way and that will be one obstacle that would be hard to overcome. Katie... Do a lot of soul searching. You are on your way to being free. Do you want this? |
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Originally Posted by Kitkat22
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Originally Posted by eveamee09
I know how to address those. The more I know of how you feel about him and him about you... I'm just as confused as you are. Listen to your own feelings... the pros and cons... Hugs... Kit |
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I read what you wrote Katie and I felt so guilty for telling you or encouraging you to go ahead with this, I did though think it was what you wanted, now I see it wasn't, and yes as Kits said we may have thought we gave you good advice, but then again we aren't you, or living your life.
He might change he's young enough to, and if he does love you and you him then I also believe everyone deserves a 2nd chance, I put my own prejudices and how it was for me onto you, and I am really sorry I did that. You have to live your life for you, you still have what's in this thread to use for guidance, however if you want to give him a 2nd chance who am I to say you cant. Im so sorry you are hurting so bad I really am. If you do go back to him then I do recommend some counselling Im sure that would be good for you both.. |
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You have to do what is best for you! I've given a lot of advice on this site and sometimes I wonder if I'm right... but on the advice I've given.. I tell them what I think is good advice. I've never second guessed myself. With your situation, I don't know. It's up to you. |
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Thanks to you both. Like I said, I am going to do a lot of deep thinking for a while and work on myself and decide what it is that would make ME feel happy. I do love him to bits and if I decide that he is what will make me happy, then so be it. My mind is pretty clouded with emotions at the minute and I feel very confused and a bit worried about all the what-ifs, like what if I do decide to go back, then how will all the people who have supported me actually feel, and what if it's the wrong decision and I end up at square one again in a few months' time? But this is all too much to consider for tonight, otherwise my brain will explode. It's just so much pressure! Please don't feel guilty, you have not pushed me into doing anything, you have just helped me and said what you felt was best at the time. I am very grateful for that and would hate for you to feel guilty. Marianne and Kit, I feel that both of you are two of the only people I can speak to honestly at the moment and share my feelings with, so I thank you for this. I know I say thank you a lot but it's because I really mean it! I am going out for a walk now with my Nanny and Grandad to get some fresh air. Speak soon |
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Hi Marianne, thanks for the like, I am going on Ebuddy so if you're around... I am scared. What if we decide to see each other slowly and gradually again but still lead our own lives how we please, but a few weeks/months down the line it doesn't feel right for me so it has to end again? How can I put him through all of that AGAIN? It might kill him! I'm more worried about his feelings than my own in this. I know that I could cope with things that will happen, but I don't know if he could. I could cope with taking it slow to see if things will work out, and if they don't then staying broken up, but I don't know if he could cope with that. He looked so ill and tired when I saw him, I feel so guilty and responsible for his feelings. This is so much pressure on me, it's immense. I feel like I am in charge of somebody elses' feelings, and that every move I make will either make them happy (temporarily?) or devastate them. It's too much pressure. I feel like I'm going to explode! What makes it worse is that I feel like everyone would be frowning down upon me. Especially my best friend, she would be SO disappointed I know it, and really quite resentful. She has stuck by me SO much and listened to me going on about him all the time and say how "sure I was about my decision", so how could I now tell her that I'm doubting the decision and considering actually seeing him again? It's all so bizarre. And him, I feel like I want to talk to him to discuss what we're going to do about this, but I also feel like his feels are so fragile that I need to be sure that he is what I want before I start talking to him again, as it would cause him more pain if I pulled away at a later date. I HATE THIS! |
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There is nothing wrong with taking all the time you need to make a life changing decision. There are many emotional risks involved to just jump into something just to try and spare the feelings of others. Healing is needed, plain and simple so this can be a decision made with clarity, and understanding, as you would give up a lot to make him happy, but you may not be happy later. That will never work, if you start resenting the changes it takes to raise his children the way he wants to. Maybe it helps to find out just what that would mean for you since its more than losing your right to club, and wear what you please to. Have you met his parents? His family? If so, how were you received? |
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Originally Posted by talaniman
Yes I agree that time is needed and a clearer mind in order to decide what is best. Right now it's all a bit of a confused jumble. Also it doesn't help that practically every person I speak to has a different opinion on the subject and all think I should do different things! I'm not sure if it would be losing my right to club or wear what I please. I called him last night you see and this is what made me start to change my mind, and I haven't posted what happened on here yet because it was quite an intimate and personal conversation so at the time I emailed Marianne what happened instead. I could post a bit of it on here I suppose, it's quite deep but I suppose nobody here actually knows who I am so it doesn't really matter: "He told me that his love for me is so true and so real, and that if I was in a wheelchair he would take care of me, look after me and cherish me until the day I die. He said that nobody can understand how much he loves me, and that he has been completely and utterly wrong in the way he's treated me. He said that it was only when he felt that he'd lost me over this past month that he realised how important I am, how awful he's been and how much he desperately wants to change and become a better person. He said that everything he's ever done has been with the best of care and intentions and that he didn't realise how bad he was being, but that he realises now upon much reflection how wrong he was and how trying to control another person is detremental and wrong and hurtful and unkind. He also said that he accepts that humans have needs, and that through all his soul-searching he has realised that chosing not to sleep with me anymore was incredibly painful for both of us and even though he felt it was right at the time (because he didn't know any better), now he realises that it was the incorrect decision to make. He said that making love with me is what makes him truly happy, and that he cannot think of another single thing that would make him happier. He said that when he looks into my eyes he feels the most incredible feelings and knows that all he wants to do is make me happy and love me forever. He says that he's been taking me for granted, has been miserable with other areas of his life so has not paid enough attention to what is important, and feels so sorry for what has happened. He also said that we need to both separately work on our selves and discover and become our own person. The mistake we made by rushing into this relationship was that we weren't sure who we were in the first place, so used eachother in order to judge and base our ideas on and didn't work on becoming our own individual people first. We agreed that we need to spend time working on ourselves and discovering what makes each of us happy, and then see if once we've done that there is a chance that we could come together and talk about our feelings and what we want in life and see if then we are compatible. He said his love for me would never die, and that I am the only woman on the whole of the earth who he wants to love and be with. But despite this he mentioned that we both would still have some resentment towards the other, me because of the way he's been to me in the past and him because of the way my decisions in the past month have hurt him, and how today especially has hurt him. " So there you go. That is what I am working with at the moment. It seems that he is desperate for change and to improve himself too. I don't quite know what to do about this. Working on ourselves for now seems the best thing. I was very accepted by his family. His Mum still wants to remain my good friend no matter what happens and has always been there for me. She is English by the way. Since this whole break thing though his Father's (Egyptian) side have taken a dislike to me (understandable as they've seen the state he has been in) and keep telling him to move on and that they'll get him married to the most beautiful Muslim woman in Egypt. I have to say that that did quite make me laugh. |
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Talaniman has mentioned some valid points, so far all he's done is tell you not to wear bikinis and not to go clubbing, he also cut off the sex side of your relationship, that's a huge CONTROL thing. So as has been said what if you stay with him and get married, and have children you said he wants to raise his kids as Muslims, do you know what that will entail, and where your position is going to be in regards to that aspect, in that culture I believe women are considered below camels, as in they're not treated as equals far from it, Im not totally sure but I think they're allowed more than wife. Your children will grow up treating you like some servant can you cope with that, you won't have any say in their education, discipline, beliefs, nothing you'll be no more than a brood mare. Plus what's to say he won't take them out of the country, you'll have no rights to stop him. You'll be no more than a free housekeeper cook bottle washer and slave. ( OK not quite so drastic) Just checked yes polygamy is allowed in their religion. So you could be replaced. Talk is cheap don't forget and actions speak louder than words. JMO |
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And how does his English mother deal with the cultural differences she has encountered. Did she convert? Was he raised a strict Muslim? Or is he "westernized"? When is he expecting you to have children, and when do you want children? Are you on a career path? What are your goals for yourself, and where do YOU want to be in 10 years? What do your parents think? |
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I have learnt so much about myself during this break, especially that I am actually a really strong person and am very capable of looking after myself. I truly think that I would never let a man tell me what to do or control me again because of what I have been through. Like if there was the slightest hint of him becoming controlling again, then that would be it. I believe that he wants to change. I'm still doubtful of whether he can physically do that, but like you said, doesn't everybody deserve a second chance? To at least try? To have a chance to prove himself and show me that he means what he says and respects my freedom and right to make my own decisions? I feel like I need to be fair and give him a chance. Not in the sense of jumping straight back into a deep relationship, but the chance over time and months and talking and understanding and observing how he is. I don't know. |
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His Mother divorced his Dad after 6 years. She married him when she was 18, moved to Egypt, converted to Islam, then divorced him and moved back to England because she was too "westernized" as you said, and couldn't conform to the Egyptian culture. You have to remember though that there is no way I am EVER converting to Islam, moving to Egypt or being forced into any religion or anything. I am my own person and he is beginning to respect that. He has lived in England since the age of 7, looks very English (very pale skin and British-looking) and so has spent most of his time experiencing the British way of life (he went clubbing and used to drink and behave relatively normally). I think he's just pretty confused about who he is and which way is the right way. |
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Hi Katie what reason has he to have any resentment towards you for not wanting to remain in a relationship where you were not allowed to be yourself around him, you didn't do that to him he did it to you, and if he is going to make unrealistic demands then he has to expect some objections and if he resents them then he should do something about it, and stop himself being that way, You didn't do that HE DID. That's him failing to accept responsibility. That's also him laying a guilt trip on you, with you mentioning that aspect, I am now thinking he isn't going to change, because he's already avoiding taking responsibility. Had he maybe said he can understand why you've been how you are, that would have been a different thing. But he's telling you he is going to have resentment for making you unhappy and you ending it. Putting the blame squarely on you... |
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Katie I have to go do my counselling for a couple of hours, Ill be back by about 3:30pm, Ill text you when Im home so if you want to chat we can. Im taking my 4 yr old Stephen with me, he loves playing with the children in the refuge and often takes a toy or 2 for them LOL awwwwwwwww he's so cute... Its group session so not so intense. |
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Nonono I've said it all wrong. That was what he said at one point, but I think I took it in the wrong context - he actually DID say that he accepted responsibility for his actions, was sorry, realised they were wrong and that he COULD understand why I've done this and why I've been so upset. He said that he must have hurt me very much for me to want to leave him like this, and that the fact I want to leave him has made him deeply question his own actions, behaviour and way he's been. I know he accepts responsibility, sorry it's just so hard to remember every little detail of things he's said and to convey aspects on here in the wrong way. He's not putting the blame on me, he said that he understands what's happened, but that yesterday was quite traumatic and that's why he feels so upset about the whole thing. But that he gets why I've been like this and understand that it's his fault and that he is the one who has caused me to want to leave. Sorry, do you see what I mean now? |
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Okay enjoy yourself and I hope Stephen enjoys playing with the children too! Speak later :) |
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I will say he is hardly a fellow that's ready for the responsibly of marriage as he seems to be trying to find himself right now. Confused people make lousy partners, and are themselves capable of confusing YOU. I think you let the dust settle for a while while he does that, without your influence. The last thing anyone needs is a partner for life that starts one way, and makes promises they fully intend to keep, but cannot. I see a big red flag in the way he deals with differences as mature coupes talk together, to work together, and not arbitrarily make decisions that their partner doesn't fully understand. Most couples after a break up think they can go slow and see if things work out without resolving any issues of contention between them. That never works, as it may be fun all over again, but no communications is done, and the old problems are not resolved. I also think you are further along the maturity ladder, and would resent him from not expressing his inner thoughts, simply because they are still forming, within him, and that's what's at the heart of this disconnect now I feel, as he has to find out what he will do for himself before he can tell you. He needs time, plain and simple, and its obvious that you recognize that and give it to him. In healthy couples, they develop that talk before actions mentality, that allows them to put their feelings, wants, and needs on the table, BEFORE they act on them. While love is a powerful emotion, and he may be dedicated for now, the only real test of any couple is how they deal with the hard times, and the work together when life and realities throw you curves, and reversals that require a lot of communications and sacrifice. (like you go clubbing, but not in a bikini, LOL! ) The biggest question to me is not how much he has to change, and can he, but what changes, and adjustments you are willing to consider? As I said, this is a life changing decision, and you both need clarity of thought to make it. Going with the flow is one thing, resolving issues in a mature way is another. Religious and cultural differences are only a barrier when there is no room for compromise, but confusion is not a way to have a healthy long term relationship. Until he can define himself, you will never define the both of you. |
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