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Marioski · Oct 23, 2009, 08:54 PM

Hello!!

So after scrolling through a few threads on this site I decided to join and post my own thread. Hopefully something can give me some advise and help me figure things out!

My wife and I have been together 7 years, married for 4. We have two beautiful children together, ages 3 and 1. Our one year old was born 3 months early and spent 4 months in the hospital, so that was a very stressful and traumatic time in our lives. Over this past year we spent dealing with a hospitilized babe and financial issues. We started great, but with recent events and worried about all of lives stresses I feel we forgot to take care of ourselves. Two weeks ago on our anniversary day my wife told me that she does not want to be married anymore and wants to file for a divorce. Initially my reaction was shocking, I didn't expect it at all. Granted, we have not had the best relationship in recent months, possibly longer and I should have seen this coming.

She told me she does not love me anymore as a husband, can't see that happenning. She can't stand the thought of me touching her. She has been married before when she was young and mentioned that she can't stand the thought of marriage right now, needs room to breath and wants out of our marriage.

I am still trying for ways to hold on, talking to her, trying to find ways to figure this out and work it out while we are married. However, I noticed that any conversation about this is pushing her further away and just stirring her anger even more. I have learned not to bring this topic up.

She has asked me to stop calling her pet names, trying to hold her hand or doing things for her. This is a bit harder, but I am in the process of stopping all of this as well. It's easier said then done. But I do not want to put more fuel on the fire at this time. I understand she can't recipricate the feeling back.

Additionally, she told me that the only thing that will make her happy and possibly fix "us" is to dissolve our marriage. She feels we are better off as friends then husband and wife. Her idea is that we simply dissovle our marriage but keep everything else the same. Make no difference to our living arrangements, finances, house ownership, etc... (confusing.. eh!). This is what's going to let her heal, make her happier and she'll reopen back up to me. However, the chances of a possible romantic relationship are questionable. She mentioned that we may end up living like this forever and feels we'll be closer then ever before this way. Um... Okay.

Of course I don't want that to happen. I feel we should try and work things out now, understand our differences, understand what we both need to do to change and possibly even give it a timeframe. She is not open to this and feels she has wasted enough time waiting for me to change. (yes... I can take a big brunt of the blame for our differences).

So before anyone replies, here are what I think some possitives:
- We are not separated. No intention to
- We both still sleep in the same bed... can't touch each other but at least we are there.
- We just went out of state for a day trip together (our son had to come as she didn't want to be alone with me... but at least we did something).
- We are on speaking terms. No heated arguments or anything like that.
- We make small plans to do things together. Ie: movie this Sunday at home.
- Still keep our living arrangements together should we split (gotta think of that as a positive)

Negatives:
- Says she does not love me, like me, can't stand me, I make her vomit.
- Does not see a future in our marrital relationship
- Has taken off her wedding rings (although they are loose on her as well)
- Is dead set on doing a divorce without changing our living arrangements.
- Any thought of working things out totally upsets her.

I would love to hear some advice, encouragement, or simply what the heck do I do?

Cat1864 · Oct 23, 2009, 09:15 PM

If ever there was a case for marriage counseling this sounds like it's the one. Whether you stay together as a couple, it would help minimize the damage that divorce would do to not only you and your wife, but the children. It would, hopefully, help her work through the issues that have obviously built up over time in her mind.

The last thing that I would suggest is continuing your 'current' living arrangements after a divorce. That is unfair of her to even suggest especially if she is unwilling to even try to work on the marriage. It would cause a tension in the home that will affect your children regardless of what you do to keep it away from them.

The only other thought I have right now is wondering if she could be depressed with all the stress and worry that you have had to deal with.

Marioski · Oct 23, 2009, 09:44 PM

In response to Cat1864 - yes I totally agree with counseling. The problem is, she doesn't want to go at all. I suggested that we should go see a marriage therapist or a counselor, at least for a few sessions, and go talk things out. She did not want to. She mentioned she had suggested this before to me (obviously I wasn't listening at the time... ) and has no intention of doing it now. So how would I suggest going to counseling to someone that truelly doesn't want to go? Do I just make the apt and tell her we are going somewhere else?

I have thought about her being depressed. She did kind of mention that she feels the reason our daugther was premature was my fault. That also translates into her hosptial stay where she was in bedrest for a month and everything after wards. So I can't really say anything about that. The doctors said it was nothing she did, just a something that happens. The point is, both mom and daugther are prefectly fine now.

So am I thinking unclearly for even considering the arrangement she suggests? I have thought about letting her go because I do love her with the hopes of getting her back as she states. Common sense tells me that will probably not happen, but at the same time I'll also be able to see my kids. She wants to get the ball rolling on this asap so we can get it done and over with. I have convinced her to at least hold off until January, so I bought myself some time.

I'm tip toeing around the entire situation as best as I can. I have spoken with a few familiar members (my wife stated that we do not tell anyone, including family about what's going on and if we do get divorced it remains a secret) including her mom. Her mom is as confused as I am, doesn't want us to split up and would love for us to work things out.

Wondergirl · Oct 23, 2009, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Marioski

(my wife stated that we do not tell anyone, including family about whats going on and if we do get divorced it remains a secret)

Let me see. She wants her cake and wants to eat it too -- live together without marriage, with your total emotional and financial support for her and the children, and pretend to everyone that the two of you are still married.

She's putting herself in control at every turn -- with the marriage, with the children, with the counseling. Marriage is supposed to be 50-50, and she's making it 100-0.

YOU go to a marriage counselor for a few sessions and get some guidance here. After all, in your vows, you two promised each other "for better or for worse" and you're in one of those two places now. The two of you are responsible for working this out, especially with an unbiased third party doing the refereeing.

P.S. I'm guessing she needs a medical workup -- post-natal depression maybe?

Marioski · Oct 23, 2009, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Lemme see. She wants her cake and wants to eat it too -- live together without marriage, with your total emotional and financial support for her and the children, and pretend to everyone that the two of you are still married.

She's putting herself in control at every turn -- with the marriage, with the children, with the counseling. Marriage is supposed to be 50-50, and she's making it 100-0.

YOU go to a marriage counselor for a few sessions and get some guidance here. After all, in your vows, you two promised each other "for better or for worse" and you're in one of those two places now. The two of you are responsible for working this out, especially with an unbiased third party doing the refereeing.

P.S. I'm guessing she needs a medical workup -- post-natal depression maybe?

Financial involvement yes... Everything is in my name, house, all the cars, everything we own. She is not on any of it. So in her eyes, I am continue on paying on things that I own.

So I go to a marriage counseler. How does that help me if I can't get her to go? I would figure the both of us need to be there? Would anyone know if something like that is typically covered by insurance (I know that's a general question). I would love for her to get a medical workup... how do I get her to go. She does have a check up with her obgyn on Thursday. Do I call the office behind her back and tell her that I'm the husband and think that possibly she might be suffering for a post-natal depression (although it's been over a year).

My first immediate step was to hit Barnes and Noble and buy a few books. So far I'm doing what all the books suggest. Give her space, do not chase her, do not call 24/7, no gifts, no nothing. Develop goes and go with it. Only problem is, I can not get her to think about it, go to a counselor or even talk to anyone. The only time she seems receptive is when I tell her that I am considering her arrangement. She lightens up. My next step is that I will not even bring it up at all anymore until she does it herself.

Wondergirl · Oct 23, 2009, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Marioski

Financial involvement yes... Everything is in my name, house, all the cars, everything we own. She is not on any of it. So in her eyes, I am continue on paying on things that I own.

How would her life go as a single mom of two little kids, and no you around to help out?

So I go to a marriage counseler. How does that help me if I can't get her to go? I would figure the both of us need to be there? Would anyone know if something like that is typically covered by insurance (I know that's a general question).

I did marital counseling for Catholic Charities and later in my own practice. If only one of the couple came to me, I talked with that one for a few sessions and got their truth, and then called in the other person on some pretext. No one ever turned me down. Most counselors have a sliding scale or will take insurance (check with your agent or on their web site to find out if counseling is covered -- it often is).

She does have a check up with her obgyn on Thursday. Do I call the office behind her back and tell her that I'm the husband and think that possibly she might be suffering for a post-natal depression (although it's been over a year).

Post-natal depression can still be a problem, especially since the baby had a rough start. Plus, her dealing with two little kids can be overwhelming at times. Or it could be a chemical imbalance so blood work would be a good thing to do. The doctor doesn't owe you any confidentiality, since he is her doctor, so you'll have to decide if she would freak out if the doctor mentions your call to him. Of course, he doesn't have to tell her either.

The only time she seems receptive is when I tell her that I am considering her arrangement. She lightens up.

Of course that will make her happy. She'll "have it all" then. She's "won."

Jake2008 · Oct 23, 2009, 10:46 PM

It may be time to accept that she does not want to be married. It is also time to step up to the plate and not let her walk all over you.

Agree to divorce, but tell her you will file for legal separation, division of assets, custody, etc. Do it right the first time.

As others have said, she can't have it both ways.

I am only going to presume she has already thought this might be a consequence to her demanding a divorce, but somehow she can dictate the terms, and you just wait for her to change her mind, or get back to the way it was.

If you choose to be treated this way, that's your call. But, if you can see that by not protecting yourself and your own future, you are going to remain walking on egg shells, and she is going to keep running you into the ground.

Do you really want to live like that?

stevetcg · Oct 24, 2009, 04:31 AM

My opinion: don't even agree to the divorce to her. Just have her served with divorce papers, granting you full custody, all the assets, child support from her and an order for her to leave the house.

Bet you a beer that her tune changes AWFULLY fast.

s_cianci · Oct 24, 2009, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by stevetcg

My opinion: don't even agree to the divorce to her. Just have her served with divorce papers, granting you full custody, all the assets, child support from her and an order for her to leave the house.

Bet you a beer that her tune changes AWFULLY fast.

This is probably the best way to go. Let me add, hire a lawyer ; one with family law experience. Play hardball ; then, if her tune does change, like this poster suggests, then you can make counseling a condition for you calling off the divorce. If you do get divorced you want your freedom, and at as little expense as possible ; continuing to remain domiciled together and share everything as a couple is just plain crazy.

Cat1864 · Oct 24, 2009, 07:14 AM

Go to the doctor's visit with her. Be honest that you have a couple of questions for the doctor that might help you decide to give her the divorce.

I do think consulting a lawyer is a good idea for several reasons. Making sure you have a current will being one of them.

As for counseling, tell her that you won't even consider a divorce until she goes to at least five counseling sessions. That you will ask everyone about how they feel about divorce if she doesn't even consider going.

Jake2008 · Oct 24, 2009, 08:26 AM

Thinking a little more about your situation, and I'm wondering what was happening before she became pregnant with your second child.

Could she have been having an affair? Were you at all suspicious?

Seems odd that after the baby is a year old, she is demanding so many 'conditions'- all to her benefit.

Is it possible that there may have been, or is, another man in the picture?

Cat1864 · Oct 24, 2009, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Jake2008

Thinking a little more about your situation, and I'm wondering what was happening before she became pregnant with your second child.

Could she have been having an affair? Were you at all suspicious?

Seems odd that after the baby is a year old, she is demanding so many 'conditions'- all to her benefit.

Is it possible that there may have been, or is, another man in the picture?

I was thinking that way until I thought about how much she wants to keep it all secret. That doesn't benefit leaving him for another man or woman.

I think it may be closer to wanting to punish him for all the wrongs he has committed or she thinks he has.

talaniman · Oct 24, 2009, 08:59 AM

Sorry guy, but her terms are unacceptable. While she may be still recovering from her last birth and all the complications that came with it, no way do you agree to her terms.

As the others have said know your rights, and what you can do, as married people split the assets, and get the judge to decide custody, visitation, and support.

No she doesn't dictate terms they are negotiated whether she likes them or not. But you really need to stand your ground and make sure your being fair to yourself, and keep your actions above board, and direct.

I like Stevetcg's idea. I think you force her to think in terms of your going to not let her walk over you and get what ever she wants when ever she wants.

Secret divorce my!! Better see a doctor and get some chill pills, that would be my position.

Jake2008 · Oct 24, 2009, 09:19 AM

Had to spread the rep, out of greenies!

To Cat, maybe the secret part of all of this to the wife, is maintaining a relationship outside the marriage in secret, being divorced, and having all the benefits of marriage at the same time. She could be seeing a married man. She could be testing the waters to see if 'he' is going to leave his wife, without fully giving up her own husband and lifestyle first. A plan in the works? Testing the waters?

I know it's a long shot, but things just don't add up.

Plus I always wanted to be a script writer for the Young and the Restless.

Cat1864 · Oct 24, 2009, 09:22 AM

A word of caution.

Don't play games with Divorce. File ONLY if you intend to go through with it. Consulting a lawyer to know your rights is always a good idea. However, remember that there are children involved in this mess and they need for both of you to be mature adults. If you decide to separate or divorce, be reasonable. Your name may be on everything, but she has rights too.

Marioski · Oct 24, 2009, 09:30 AM

Wow. Great advice everyone! Thank You. I went out with some old friends last night and it sure felt great. To Jake2008, I have thought about that have had some suspicion lately, well I guess mostly assumptions on my part. I don't want her to not trust me or think that I am following her around or checking up on her as that will cause this situation to even be worse. However my suspicion has been aroused. She works a night shift, typically from 10PM to 8AM. Conveniently she has been called to work additional hours quite a bit. Never thought about this before as work always called to confirm her additional hours. Now that I think about it, all this OT can be going towards paying for a divorce lawyer. This is also quite convenient to hide anything if you ask me. On Saturday nights I have to work until 11PM and she has her "girls night out" lately and has been coming home between 4-5AM. I am tolerating this as I know who she is going with, but I can't control who she meets. I just now checked our cell phone records and contact entries and she has an entry named "9-26 Truck" with a phone number next to it. It lead to a cell phone and some guy answered it. Conveniently that date is one of the Saturdays she went out. I confronted her about this today in the morning, in the most polite way. At first I was told it was someone from the bowling alley (she's on a league), then one of our friends and 20 minutes later a call back saying it's a guy from work that she couldn't have his name shown. Aparantly she works with his girlfriend and she is trying to help their relationship out and doesn't want the girlfriend to see when he calls, so hence it not being named. I don't know if I should believe this or call bull on it.

She immediately threatened that if I keep accusing her of cheating and finding affection elsewhere she will. "If affection presents itself I might just act up on it as it doesn't matter anymore since we are thru". WTH!! Anyway... I know when to step away from a fight so I stepped away.

Well.. I was interrupted in my typing. We just blew up at each other. This was the most heated argument we have had regarding this entire situation. She started yelling that she is done with marriage period... that it sucks. Of course I told her it sucks and my voice grew louder and that nothing is ever perfect but you work things out. Well... typical reaction, pissed off doesn't want to hear it up in the bedroom slammed the door.

I am thinking I need an attorney for my own sakes... Somebody advised me I should keep a list of her comings and goings in case this gets to the point where it turns ugly.

talaniman · Oct 24, 2009, 09:42 AM

Talk to an attorney, and CYOA (cover your own a$$).

Jake2008 · Oct 24, 2009, 09:52 AM

I figured she was hiding something, or up to something. I would be highly suspicious too.

As Talaniman said, CYOA!! Seriously. Get a lawyer. Start documenting everything, even without 'proof'.

I would bet both my left feet that she's got somebody on the side.

Marioski · Oct 24, 2009, 12:00 PM

Okay... So we had a major blow up this morning. Actually, we never had a fight this big and this bad. A lot of anger came out, a lot of emotions, a lot of tears. I actually saw her break down and cry for the very first time in a long time. I think all this crap is just bottled inside of her and just needs to be released.

Yes it started with me questioning the suspicious phone numbers. But after our talk (if you want to call it that.. more like a vigorous yelling) I truelly believe there is absolutely no one on the side. Will I keep my radar up, sure... but I will give her the benefit of the doubt.. yes. She broke down and finally told me that she feels the concept of marriage is what broke us and what is the "broken" piece between us. I took all the love out of it. She is harnessing these feelings out from her prior two failed marriages (both at a young age and both were physical). She feels she is the cause of the failure and collapse and hence and the commonality is marriage within all three marriages. She wants to take the marriage aspect out of the equation.

Okay.. I respect that, to me my logical next step would be to just give it some time. Counseling and what not. She doesn't want to do that because she made those attempts previously to me and I ignored them, so now it's too late. I can't deny that, I did. She's not all to blame, it's more like a 60/40 split with me being on the 60 side.

During the yelling and screaming and tears going down her face she mentioned that if it ever occurred to me that the reason she is suggesting to keep our living arrangement identical and not change a thing is that she wants to start from new... from a friendship level. She mentioned that if she wanted to, she would have just served me with papers immediately but does not want me out of her life. To her, this is the only way she can fix what's wrong with us. What I figured out is she wants to take our relationship back four years, when we weren't married but dating. These were our best years. I think she wants to start back from there. It's also the reason she didn't want anyone to know because she feels that when we work it out, we just get remarried in city hall and no one would ever have to know. Not sure if that makes any sense, but none of this does right now.

So I told her that I would be open to her suggestion but still have questions. Additionally, since this is what she wants to do and how she feels it's going to fix us I laid out some of my own requests. I told her that from this day forward we should consider us friends or "it's complicated". We should start working on our friendship and rebuilding our trust with each other instead of waiting for D day to start the healing process. (I bought 2 or 3 months and convinced her to wait until January or so). She couldn't agree to it 100% but will have an open mind to that. That's a lot more then last week, so I guess that's progress. I also requested that if/when should her arrangement go through, prior to finalizing it I request anywhere between 1 to 3 counseling sessions. I didn't get an agreement on that but will work on that.

That's pretty much it. We actually were able to hug each other and she allowed me to give her a kiss. It was on the cheek but at least it was something!

Jake2008 · Oct 24, 2009, 12:29 PM

I think once you think about this, and think through what has just happened, you may come to the same conclusion as before. Nothing has changed, and she is still calling the shots.

Go back 4 years, after getting divorced, and start over. In secret. Then, if it works out, go to City Hall and get married- again. Why does this have to be a secret- who's needs are being met here by 'the secret'.

Because you didn't want counselling in the past, does in no way, dictate that it isn't desperately needed now. Don't let her use that as an excuse. You're letting her off the hook here.

Nothing will work without going forward, not backwards. To re-start an established marriage on her terms sounds absolutely ridiculous to me. She is in exactly the same position, as are you, before the tears came. You falling for it, has me wondering why.

Why are you accepting her terms. Why is she demanding them.

I still say there is far more to her story than you know.