[Givenuphusband]

Hi all, thank you again for your comments.
I need to say that today I feel great. Somehow I am starting to focus more on myself and my needs. While driving to work heard something on the radio that made me remember who I am. "The way the things are does not mean that's the way they HAVE to be". I am a perfectionist, I have always been and I noticed I have been pursuing perfection in every single aspect of my life but in the one that should be the most important for me... my own emotional health. I am a very emotional guy, if everything its OK in my heart and my emotional state... I'm fine, if not... I'm a mess and in pain cause I cannot stop thinking about what is bothering me. Feeling like I felt today is a good sign, I feel like nothing can affect me anymore. I just don't care. Is better for me. No love but no pain or suffering and anyway before there was no love either but had all the pain.

Gem: That article is amazing. A lot of similarities with my case. Not all but a lot.

Jake: Thank you so much for your honesty. It sounds very reasonable and logical. You are very right but... how can she change if she does not understand what she is doing, if she does not get how wrong she is acting, If she refuses to think and specially if she thinks she is not doing anything wrong?

Dust: I am really happy that you are figuring out your situation. Glad to hear that you are doing what you think is the best for you. In my case I don't think that is what I want. Dangling a string at my cat to keep it interested is not exactly what I want. That is what I would do if I were not married and she was only my girlfriend. I would play with the kitty but to keep it interested I have to make sure to keep dangling that string... that will make me her entertainer not her husband. As you read in the article Gem sent... If love is not natural is just not there, shouldn't need to be forced. Probably is the solution for your case but see it as one for mine. You are very right about something, I already lost her, at this point I shouldn't be afraid to loose her. Besides, this "reality check" will not do anything with her, she is stubern as a mule and that mixed up with her other "qualities" will just make the situation worst. By the way... I loved those videos man. Had a BIG LAUGHT!

SVI: Thank you for your observation and your advice. Yes... I am a sensitive, gentle, nice guy and probably a chump like you say but currently I am also a man. I don't know how old are you but let me tell you some things I have learned. First of all my I have learned to let the things flow, that way they take their natural course. I got self respect and I value myself and my time. I know everything about "the game", before marriage I was used to be the with the best girlS, the one who always could just make a couple phone calls and get a cute girl wherever I was. Believe me, I know how to get a girl if I want to. Second, If she is cheating on me is HER fault, NOT MINE.
Third, I totally agree with you with the failed marriages life she will get if she does not grow up and realize she is not being responsible and understands what a marriage is abot but... If I decide to divorce that will not be my problem anymore.

You have come a long way with 16 years of marriage, If after 16 years she cheated on you was not because you were not a man. At least she was open and aparently you both talked about it and solved the problem. If my wife is cheating or have ever cheated and she is responsible enough to admit it, understand that it wasn't right and apologize for doing it... I could probably forgive her and work out something. I can see why you are still married after what she did. Is not because you were acting like a "Man" I can tell you that. Is because you love her and she probably made a mistake but loves you and respect you cause it takes a lot from someone to admit something like that and specially to her husband. I will look for that book you say and will check it out. Thanks

[SVImager]

That's Great.. you already know the material.

Definitely, read that book... it was recommended to me by the community. It will definitely explain what and why she is doing the things she is doing.

Ok if you know the material...
Women feel no attraction toward men seeking their validation.

I am sorry if I offended you... You are right I don't know you, except by what you written.

The guy who cheated with my wife is a mastering at gaming housewives. Four in his old neighborhood and five in my current neighborhood. He is the guy who throws Football parties every Sunday, organizes trips to Cabo once a year, lots of storytelling, etc.

[Givenuphusband]

SVI : Not offended man. Is just that's not exactly I want to have in my marriage. I am tired of playing the game. I got married cause I was ready to make a commitment and retire with the memories of a really fun youth. I'm not 21 anymore... ad a matter of fact I will be 31 the next week. I don't think I am old AT ALL but I really want to build up a family with the woman I love. As you know, is not the same the same the way you were used to play than the way you play now. If I still wanted to keep playing... I would have never married in the first place.
Regarding that guy, he is not masterizing anything. I know how the story ends. Anything that happens with any women... will never happen again even if he begs for it. Usually he is just at the right time at the right place. Remember that girls are not going to come to knock on your door and ask you to please them... you need to be OUT THERE!
Don't blame yourself if your wife cheated on you. It is solely HER fault and you have all the right to be piss off and really dissapointed. If you two were able to figure it out that's great but you don't have to change or act like someone you are not just to "Be a man".
You can be a man and at the same time be a nice guy, that's what I always try to reach, in my case, my problem is that does not matter what I do or what I try, the one I love does not seem to realize it.

[SVImager]

This is a very interesting Discussion.
So, that you know, I am learning and redefining myself from this exchange.

My Point of View is someone who has been married for 18 years (now) with Christian studies (ie. "Love, Sex and Long lasting relationship" by Chip Ingram) and just recently understanding the game.

Your Point of View is someone who have practiced the game and want the ideal marriage away from the game.

Before my wife cheated on me, I was doing the Christian thing. Practicing Agape Love, loving her unconditionally even when she don't deserve it (biggest Chump move). Did "Growing Kids God's way"... I am a very good father and my two daughters have always been commented as perfect by other parents and teachers. I also read... His Need, Her Needs... Purpose Driven Life... Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.. etc... I did it all.. at least most. Yes, you are right... I do have very good communications with my wife. Even the Christian Counselor, commented on this. I do more than half of the kitchen cleaning, majority of the cooking, make breakfast and lunches daily... And I was the NICE Guy... Yet she still Cheated on me...

After my wife cheated on me, I needed to understand why.
The game answered my question with a combination of other stuff I learned. At first I thought it was money... I don't make the same amount of income as before. My Bro-in-law's wife cheated on him too... and she was VERY VERY Well taken care of at home.


My Conclusion came to the fact that most men today don't know how to be a Man... just the Nice Guy. The Husband needs to take charge and provide leadership, security and other things in a marriage. I believe there will always be drama in a marriage... she will always try to change things (Ways of Superior Man)... You need the skills to Push/Pull (the Game), to be able to manage and control and direct the amount of change (drama) that is necessary in life.

You can't retire the skills you have learned.
The Game to me is not just gaming woman, it is how to be a man and being an excellent person.

Why men are Nice Guys?? TV and Movies... they demonstrated storylines of man being nice and getting the girl... thinking that is what woman want. This is basically Brainwashing and changing what is norm to something else.

[SVImager]

BTW, I don't excuse my wife... I can only account for myself and what I contributed to our failure in the marriage.

Cheating is a symptom of martial problem.

[Devorameira]

When a partner is controlling it can be very demoralizing, so I'm sure your self-confidence is running a little low. Problem is, you can't change your wife....she has to want to do that herself and that may never happen. The person you need to give top priority to is yourself. You have to become stronger inside, to realize that you are a worthwhile person and your feelings and opinion count.

You will not gain her respect when you give in to her in everything. I know this is not going to be easy for you, but you are owed at least respect and appreciation. Why not stop trying to please her and do things that please you? The more often you do this, the quicker your self esteem will return. Take control of your life, don't give away your power to anyone, no matter what. The more you stand determined, the stronger you will become. This cannot happen unless you decide you want your life to change. Only you can do this. We each have a choice as to how we want to live our life, step out from his shadow and become the strong person you want to be. Put yourself first, take back your power.

[NorseThor]

I am so sorry for all your problems. First of all a healthy relationship involves two people. Sometime being in love is not a good enough reason to stay in a toxic relationship. You don't want your children to see the unhappiness between the two of you. You will only be cheating yourself out of happiness, but your children. Her behavior has shown that she has already moved on, so the best thing you can do is to get into yourself and find some spiritual or personal goal to work on yourself. You can't change a person's behavior, but you can change your own. Stay positive and let her do her things, cause she is going to be the one that loses. I recommend reading this book called "Love Language" and "Feeling Good". Once you find out your "Love Language" and yourself worth, then no one can take it away from you.

Thor

[bigblack]

Ok... I tried to read every response before I am replying, but have to admit it's a little long to stay focused.

I'm going to go against many of the other responders by saying it sounds like this is one really long '-fest' and that's OK to vent to make yourself feel better, but at some point, you have to return to reality. What is going on with your wife? She may be going through her own personal turmoil, and your over-sensitive (you said it) being is pushing her away from you. It's just the feeling I'm getting here, I don't mean to diminish your feelings, but some people are a little too dramatic for my liking.

A couple things that I have to comment on is your expectation that love comes so easily and 'naturally' to people - nothing should be 'forced'. Ok, in an ideal world, love would be easy, non-judgement, kind, giving... etc. But, wake up!! It's not. Loving your partner is A LOT of work. You both have to be invested in wanting to make it work... but after that initial walking on clouds feeling wears off, you realize you're partner isn't perfect. BUT NEITHER ARE YOU. That's my basic point here... you aren't perfect either and may be chosing to see your wife in a negative light when she may be drowning in a tidal wave of emotions you are throwing her way. Marriage takes work, and it doesn't end. Compromise, compromise, compromise.

Well, that's my opinion as a woman, married 13 years to a man who isn't perfect. I'm far from perfect. Have lived through infidelity, being in a different 'place' than my husband on many occaisions, two amazing children... life is challenging. But at the same time, grand. Perspective.

Take care.

[bigblack]

In above post, I wrote a bad word and it was erased... my apologies... it's meant to read 'this is a really long b*tch-fest' No insult meant to offend women or female dogs