[Givenuphusband]

My wife and I have two years and a couple months of marriage. She is from the US and since we moved here she have change A LOT with me.
We have got into agreements and she have slowly changed them ALL to her convenience and I have given up, only to make her happy I have acepted those changes. She basically does whatever she feels like without caring about my feelings or my opinions. Of course, everything ends up in a fight and further calm and happiness after I, even being the hurted one, tell her that I don't want to fight and I love her.
She NEVER apologizes for anything and have stablished VERY CLEAR that she DOES NOT want anything to do with me sentimentally, emotionally or phisically (Too many examples to write them all) she have even puted our marriage with a lie, just to cover up one of her messes. We are going to Marriage counseling but she gets better for a few days (only with the yelling and some actions, still not affective or intimate in any way) but at this point she is starting to act and do the same things she that were making me feel NOT important to her, NOT respected and NOT loved at all.
I have never been unfaithfull even not receiveing her attentions in any way. She says the way she shows me love is making my food and keeping my clothes clean but she rathers to go out with her friends by herself without me than going to a date night with me. She have done that several times already. I think she hasn't grown up but she is 29 years old for Christ sakes!
I give A LOT of love and I like to receive it too, I don't feel loved and the next step for me should be divorcing her since we have been separated already 2 times. The difficult part of this for me is the love I feel for her. I love her madly, I know that even if I don't feel it right now. After the last emotional punch I received I feel just empty and that's why I am asking here. She have lied to me so many times before even looking straight into my eyes that I don't believe her anymore. I suspect she is having an affair (men or women) based on her behavior, lack of attention (emotionally, sentimentally or phisycally) and other things like not picking up her phone sometimes when I call her or just not calling me using stupid excuses only for me to find out that excuse did not apply for someone else who have called her at the same time frame.
I think I gave up with her. I will suffer for a while but I think eventually I will feel better. I love my kid and that's another issue in this situation.
All answers are welcome but I would like to have answers from women to find out a possibility of why she acts like this and answers from guys that have been on similar situation and how they have solved their problem.
Thank you all.

[N0help4u]

Making me feel NOT important to her, NOT respected and NOT loved at all.
This says it all YOU ARE NOT important to her so WHY do you stay with her?
She is mentally and verbally abusing you.
She is thinking and caring about her SELF NOT you.
She is self centered and only cares about herself.

[Givenuphusband]

Hi Nohelp4you,
Thank you for your answer. I have to say that she is not like I explained all the time, she gets mad when I try to tell her how she is making me feel and the things that in fact are affecting me. I am NOT defending her here, just providing some more info.
She tries sometimes. What bothers me is the fact that she shouldn't have to try!. I mean, those things should flow naturally from you to the person you say you love. She says she loves me but, literally, have also said that she does not enjoy having sex, that she is not an affective person (that is not true cause she was used to be all over me mort of the time and we were happy). I just need to understand why. Do you see any reasons for her to stay with me if she does not love me? I know I am not an ugly guy but I am not rich or anything like that. I don't really understand why. As a woman, do you see anything I am probably missing?
Thank you

[Jake2008]

I think that after only two years, and a child to consider here, that you should continue with the marriage counselling.

She is not listening to you, or respecting you for a reason, and you have to find out what that is before any work can be done to rebuild a good relationship and marriage.

For the sake of the child, I do think both of you need to focus on your marriage right now.

It is hard to say why she does what she does. Maybe she feels smothered, maybe she is craving the good old carefree days, maybe she does have somebody on the side- who knows. She is the only one that can answer for her own behaviour. Everything else is a guess.

It wouldn't be unreasonable for you to negotiate some ground rules with the therapist. Maybe she would agree to no late nights, and in return, you could take her out for a nice dinner once a week, or to a movie. Anything to re establish some comfort level, and investment of time, equally, in the relationship.

If she is unwilling to talk, or participate, or make small changes, then you have some serious decisions to make as to your future, and your child's future.

I hope you keep trying, and that eventually she will put you and your child in a higher priority than she is now, with some professional help.

[dustdevil]

I'm sorry for your pain. I'm going through something similar.

Best advice I have is to grow some balls and build some self respect. (Best thing I can do in my situation too). It's tough, and it's very difficult to objectively see your own situation. Friends can be somewhat useless for objective opinions, because they don't want to even approach telling you what to do.

I'd give the therapy a try before doing anything rash however. Everyone deserves a chance in therapy before breaking out the big guns.

If no therapy, then I'd set boundaries. If you don't set boundaries, and just give give give, then all you'll get in return is being walked on.

You're not alone.

[Givenuphusband]

Hi all and thank you for your advices.

Jake2008: I know the reason why she does not listen or respect, she does that when she wants to do something that she KNOWS she is not supossed to do or something she knows will get me mad. She does it, don't apologize FOR ANYTHING, when I try to confront her she just runs away saying that I only want to control her or start yelling at me and claims that I am giving her a headache and just go. If I stay mad she gets mad at me saying that I just have to let it go so basically she expects me to just suck everything up and do whatever she wants me to do. For example, in marriage counseling we decided that we needed more time for ourselves. We setted fridays as our date nights. We have been going out and having fun (no sex after cause she is always too tired) but last Friday a friend asked her to go out and she called me to tell me about it completelly forgeting about OUR date night. THAT HURTS ! I feel like the back up plan and not a priority as I have her. After telling her she can do whatever she wanted she asked if I wanted to go. I kind of calmed a bit and breathed deeply and told her that if she wanted us to go we could go and if she wanted to go by herself she could go by herself (of course with a little bit of sarcasm and with some sadness) could you believe she had the nerve to tell me to go to pick up our kid to her parents house and go home? JUST LIKE THAT! This is what I'm dealing with right now.

Dustdevil: Sorry to hear that you are going through the same situation. I honestly think nobody should be in this situation. Love is supposed to flow both ways in a natural manner and not "trying". Believe me it hurts... I have been literally told "I want to have sex just to make you happy", probably I'm wrong but, is that supposed to be a COMPLIMENT?
Hang in there, we will figure it out with the help of this fellas. This comments are really opening my eyes to some things I had them closed before, probably for love or probably just not to accept my reality since I am the type of guy that never before had to practically beg for love. What's your sexlife situation? There is always a excuse for you too?
Let me know and lets share info.

Itsamor: I do really want to know what you think. As a woman you can actually let me know reasons she says she loves me but don't want to have sex with me, never shows tenderness, affection or desire for me. Why could it be that I am always at the bottom of her priorities? I would really appreciate your comments.

[dustdevil]

Uhm. No sex for 2 months. Wife lives at her parents now.

Last night and today, I had enough. I told her I'm not going to be her puppy anymore. I manned up, set boundaries and expectations and now I feel like I'm getting somewhere.

I think manning up and getting sex might be mutually exclusive however. How does yelling turn into passion? I don't know. But I know begging doesn't work either.

I wouldn't be surprised if she is with some other guy, or maybe she's just a naturally cold person.

I'd sit her down, and tell her 'these are my needs in a relationship' and list them out. Tell her that they need to be worked on, or you're going to move on in life. Don't accept 'maybes'. "Maybe" means NO.

It sucks that there's a kid involved, makes things a bit more delicate however.

You have to be mentally prepared to ditch them, and lose everything to really get what you want however if they're not willing to work with you.

[Gemini54]

Basically she's controlling you and doing what she pleases because she doesn't like or respect you. No other woman can actually tell you why your wife does what she does. We may be women, but we're all individuals and we can only guess what her reasons are.

You say that she's changed a lot since you moved - have you moved away from or to the US? I didn't understand that bit.

Relationships should bring joy and happiness to our lives, not misery and pain. Your wife doesn't want any of the responsibilities of being in a relationship and treats you with disrespect and disdain. You're not her first priority, and you should be.

It also sounds like she's only paying lip service to the agreements made in counseling which is another example of her disdain for your marriage.

I think that dustdevil makes a good point. You need to toughen up and stop being at her beck and call. Yes, you have a child but I can't see how a child is going to benefit from you staying together when your relationship is so dysfunctional.

You need to take back some power - at the moment she's calling all the shots and you're the one in misery. If you want to stay together, start by setting some boundaries around her socializing - date nights are for the both of you, not just something to do until she gets a better offer.

Start by getting a life of your own - why don't you go out with your friends, or go to the movies or play some sport? Get independent and don't rely on her or expect her love. Get interested in other people and stop nagging her for love, sex, affection.

I suspect that your marriage won't last, but at least you can begin the process of reclaiming your masculinity.

[Jake2008]

This is not a partnership, it is a dictatorship. She really has no idea what it takes to make a marriage work, and raise a child within a strong healthy relationship.

Selfishness is one thing. But she sounds very immature to me. That isn't something that bodes well for the present situation. She may understand what the counsellor is saying to try or do, but she cannot intellectualize it, or think beyond the next phone call from her friends who offer something more interesting to do, than go on a date night with you.

It is hard to understand the motivation of someone who does not understand their behaviour themselves. Why they choose to do what they do, or understand what they've done to undermine a relationship, seems lost somehow.

It baffles me that you try so hard, and she can't even see the value in that. How many women leave husbands because they won't change, or go to counselling, or stick to a plan or agreement.

I do hope that you both can see your way through to more counselling, if only to discover that the marriage won't work, and you can part on friendlier terms for the sake of your child. That will be very much in your favor if you are both on speaking terms and can agree to custody and visitation with the best interests of your child in mind.

You have lost much already, especially faith in your marriage, and I can't say that I don't see your side of things. It's pretty clear what your life is like. Take one day at a time, do the best you can. That's all you can do.

I hope you will keep posting, it will help to get opinions from others having gone through, or are going through, what you are now.

[Givenuphusband]

Dust and Gem thank you both for your honest and sincere point of view.
I have already told her my needs, my expectations and all concerning to my pain with her actions like 300 times. What really scares me is exactly what you said Dust, How does yelling turn into passion? is just not like that. I don't want her to do things she does not feel, you can actually tell when your wife is enjoying sex or not. I don't want her to "fabricate" kisses, passion and love just to make me happy. That will eventually turn worst since she does NOT enjoy it. I don't want her to be an actress and be misserable just trying to make me happy cause none of us will find happiness. Out of anger and frustration I have told her several times that I cannot make her love me. The thing is that she is not a natural cold person (even if that is the excuse she started to use a couple months ago), she was used to be all over me, wait for me in the couch under a cover wearing only underwear, she was used to drag me to our bed, kiss me and hug me all the time but... since we moved TO the US she has become a totally different person.
Since a few days now I'm sleeping in the couch, after the last emotional punch I don't feel like kissing her even in the cheeks. I feel empty and numbed and it feels really weird cause I am not like that. I wonder if she have finally killed the last bit of love that I had in my heart for her. I have been thinking even if there is something wrong with me, I have always been a very secure guy and I got to the point even to contact a Dr. for penis enlargement (I know it sounds funny but is the truth), she asked me to get one of those measurers and send her my sizes. After I did she called me and left me a message on my voice mail (was busy at work and could not answer) saying that if I am not planning on becoming a porn star I should see a Psicologist, she said I'm way over the average. That of course gave me some self respect back but left me even more confused on WHY SHE ACTS LIKE THIS? I love my son and he loves me. Does not matter how tired I come home I always do something with him, we play, we talk, we run... he is actually the biggest joy in my life.
Bottom line is that I have already done ALL and more things you guys have told me. That's why I wrote that I think there is no other way than divorce. It hurts even to write it but is even more painful having a "wife" that cannot make me happyand no matter how hard I try there are always more important things for her. I wish she could just sit me down and tell me open hearted what the hell is going on. If she is into things that I don't know, if she have other sexual preferences, if she met someone else and is having an affair and don't want to divorce. WHATEVER ! I just need to understand and get out of this missery. I have even told her several times that I am willing even to sign a confidentiality agreement or whatever she wants (yes sounds nuts) but I am a desperate man. I just need to be happy cause my heart is starting to get poisoned.

Gem, I go out every Sunday to play pool with friends. I leave the house between 4:00 PM and 4:30 PM (I was used to leave around 2:30 but she said that time was very early and we agreed between 4:00 and 4:30) after all this mess now she is saying that she does not want me to go out on Sundays AT ALL (thats the ONLY day of the week I go out, without her at least and if she wants to come she is more than welcome to come and she knows it), she have also said that SHE wants to go out with her friends on fridays and we should change our "date night" to some other day cause her friends can only go out on fridays. As you can see, she have EVERYTHING on top of me in her priorities list. What hurts the most is that I have explained my feelings several times and she does not care, is like she refuses to grow up, probably worst. I think you are right on what you said about getting ready to take serious decisions. I love her but I love myself too and anyway... Why will I want to be with someone who does NOT make me happy even if I love her?
For now I'm giving time and waiting to see what happens with my feelings, If I keep dying inside, I will move forward if there is a serious change (like the other 3000 times before) I will evaluate my situation. I don't want to leave my kid, but that shouldn't tie me. I will always be his father anyway... right ?

[Gemini54]

It sounds to me like she doesn't need you any more. When you weren't in the US she needed you and could focus on you. Now she's back home and she doesn't care.

Stop with the pleading and talking. Stop with the negotiating. Stop with the pandering to all her whims.

You need to do what you want to do. Go out at 2.30 instead of 4.30 and don't invite her. Start making some time to do the things you want.

In the end you may love her, but I suspect you don't respect her. How can you? She sounds selfish and immature.

Love can't survive under these circumstances.

[Givenuphusband]

Jake 2008: I was writing when you posted your comment. Let me ask you something? Are you a Psicologist or something related cause you JUST NAILED IT!
That is EXACTLY what happens, she does NOT get it.
She is selfish, immature and in top of that something else that have caused A LOT of problems in our marriage... She is also a Daddy's girl (Ultra Spoiled).
She does not intelectualize ANYTHING, actually she does not like to think, she have told me several times "You think too much", like is something wrong to do. Definitely she cannot see two inches ahead of her nose cause she does not think what's going to happen. She always does whatever is easier for her even knowing that IS NOT RIGHT. I have explained to her several times that the easiest way is not always the best. The right way is usually a bit difficult but always pays off.
Its amazing how accurate you are. What can I do about this? I have told the therapist on the last session that I have given up and I did not wanted to go back. Had a couple minutes alone with her and explained how I feel and she have told me to do nothing. She told me that I needed to relax and think about it, she really understand how I feel. She have been suffering this for quite a while now. I don't know if I will go next Monday anyway. Still thinking. Please tell me more, what should I do? Where is my happy ending? Please be honest and tell me if there is any way she can revive the love she felt for me before. If there is no way to do that let me know also and I will start preparing.
Thank you again and I'm really looking forward to hear from you again.

[Givenuphusband]

Hi Gem,
I was writing when you posted.
I do respect her, you don't know how much. Of course I get mad and yell sometimes, of course I hang up the phone or say something mean if our discussion gets big but... When I do stuff like that, after I calm down, I call her and apologize for whichever of the above mentioned reasons. I have had the chance to be cheat on her with BEAUTIFUL women with no way for her to find out and I have not done it cause I respect her and of course, I respect myself too.

[Gemini54]

Hi Gem,
I was writting when you posted.
I do respect her, you dont know how much. Of course I get mad and yell sometimes, of course I hang up the phone or say something mean if our discussion gets big but... When I do stuff like that, after I calm down, I call her and apologize for whichever of the above mentioned reasons. I have had the chance to be cheat on her with BEAUTIFUL women with no way for her to find out and I have not done it cause I respect her and of course, I respect myself too.

That's what I mean - you're trying too hard - apologizing for the smallest misdemeanor. She's got you tied around her little finger - she's a princess and you're the pauper. I don't know how you can respect someone that behaves like she does - I think you want her so desperately you will easily lose your own self respect and put your own needs on the back burner.

I'm really sorry, but I doubt there is a happy ending here. She's selfish and incapable of empathy or compassion. Not to mention that she's totally focused on herself. Everything will always be someone else's fault.

Brace yourself for being blamed for the marriage break up.

[Givenuphusband]

You are right, there is always someone else's fault. Usually me. The most ridiculous blame was a couple weeks ago. I got blamed cause "Imade her so mad that she got the hic ups" I GOT BLAMED FOR HIC UPS ! Imagine all the other things I get blamed for. Everything is my fault usually and if I'm safe is someone else's.

[Gemini54]

You are right, there is always someone elses fault. Usually me. The most ridiculous blame was a couple weeks ago. I got blamed cause "Imade her so mad that she got the hic ups" I GOT BLAMED FOR HIC UPS ! Imagine all the other things I get blamed for. Everything is my fault usually and if I'm safe is someone elses.

I keep doing this, but go to this website and see if any of it sounds familiar.

The behaviors described are sometimes extreme, but some of it may resonate. I'd be interested to see what you think.

A Shrink for Men

[Jake2008]

Sometimes love is just not enough. She could very well love you in her own way, and you obviously love her. But, it is more than what you feel, it is what you do, and how committed you are to keep getting stronger- together.

Some too are priviledged, or entitled, in their outlook on life, and in their relationships. They have never really felt or shown compassion or humility, or show a conscience when others are suffering. They have never gone without that special self-status that puts them just a bit above those with whom they have little regard; which includes most people, friends, lovers, partners etc.

There is something really missing from the lives of those who have had it all, and have given little in return. Dishing out food at a shelter, is not quite the same as being the one needing the food to survive. It is superficial, even though it is the right thing to do, but there will never be an understanding of being hungry, or going without, or struggling for the basics of everyday survival, if you don't have the insight or maturity to do so, or unless you have experienced it yourself.

That is not to say that people can't change. But, change is not an easy thing. You need to have a very good reason to change, or why bother. It is very hard work to see your world not as you want it to be, but how it is. And if you are changing with your heart in the right place, anything is possible. But to change without insight and understanding, then it is just more superficial compliance, and doesn't do either party any long lasting good.

As to your son, he will benefit enormously from your influence, because you do understand how precious and meaningful your relationship with him is. That kind of love to have for a child, can never be taken away from you.

If you do decide to visit your counsellor again, discuss with her what happens when people just go through the motions, and do what they think is required, in order to maintain (but not change) the status quo. I cannot see how things can work, with only one partner giving 100 percent, and the other is stuck in a place that has been nurtured and comfortable, probably for most of her life if I read you right.

In the beginning, you could not have known, or predicted the future. You had no reason to doubt the person you married, but perhaps that person was never really there at all, and not the person you thought she was.

[dustdevil]

So.

Day one after putting my foot down and showing self respect, my wife visited and we had sex.

I told her, I can't respect myself being the puppy dog. I feel pathetic that I can't have my own wife, and I can't respect myself by doing that either. I told her that I'm out of here unless she increases her level of commitment to working on our relationship.

The goal is to give them a thwap on the head, get a reality check, and let them know that they can't treat you like that, and if they do, you're out of there.

I know it sucks, and I fall into the same trap, even tonight, where you chase chase chase. Think of a cat playing with string. If you dangle the string above the cat, but don't let him get it. He'll play with it. The minute you put that string down on the floor, the cat will lose interest and walk away.

When you chase your wife, you're putting that string on the ground. It's not interesting.

Complaining isn't sexy, but if your wife cares at ALL about you, then she'll chase you if you establish boundaries and threaten to leave.

I'm not sure what the conditions of the previous separations were.

But, if you tell your wife 'i need this', and she refuses to meet your needs, then I'm sorry, there's only so much you can do. The threats are the only thing I can think of. Like a 'shock treatment'.

Another possible shock treatment perhaps would be to say you're going to the bar with some female friends. Something innocent, but enough to try to stir up some jealousy.

If you're at this point, don't be afraid to lose her. Try something extreme to shake up the hornets nest.

I know it hurts and it sucks. I do the same thing, I'll shake the hornets nest, and be like 'oh my god, I'm sorry I did that'. CONFIDENCE man! Do something, stick to it, don't apologize. By not apologizing, you're showing confidence. By not caring if you lose her, you're showing confidence. By caring about YOURSELF over her, you're showing self respect.

I knew a disabled gentleman that always had all the pretty girls hanging off him in college. He was *UGLY*. But what did he have? Confidence and self respect. I was much more handsome than he was, and those girls didn't give me a second look. Why? Because I wasn't confident around them.

I still haven't figured it all out. Yes, I did briefly get my wife back today (She's still living at her parents however, and went back). After we had sex, I started smothering her with kisses and hugs and 'cutesy' things while we watched a movie. This was *wrong*. Pouring affection on her put me back into the 'weak' mindset in her mind, and I'm sure that she felt she had the cards again. I dropped the string in front of her, and stopped dangling it. She stopped smiling every time I'd hug her, and just seemed to 'tolerate' it, after a while, whereas at the beginning of the night, she was visibly enjoying every hug and kiss.

Good luck.

[dustdevil]

Read that 'a shrink for men' link.

Reminds me of the pyscho girlfriend video.

Not sure if it'll help your relationship, but maybe it will lift your spirits.

YouTube - Psycho Girlfriend: Ep 1

There's 6 parts.

[SVImager]

"Tell her your Needs"??

You are a Nice Guy and a Chump.
BE A MAN!!

You are playing a Role that you see in a movie that a sensitive, gentle, nice guy is what a woman want... NO NO NO... you have to be a MAN.

If she is cheating on you, She is Cheating with a MAN.
Something that you are NOT (currently).

At 2 years of marriage, I would say let her go and she will continue a lifetime of failed marriages. You can't change her, but only FIX yourself.

My wife cheated on me after 16 years of marriage.
I was the NICE Guy and not a MAN.
After 2 years of her cheating, I am still married. It is not easy.

Read "The Ways of a Superior Man" by David Deida.
You will learn WHY she is yelling and testing you.
Be the Mature Man in the RELATIONSHIP by VALUING yourself.
She doesn't RESPECT you... Why would she, if you don't Value yourself, your time and efforts.