[azw]

Hello,

I am wondering about the best way to fix a sluggish toilet. This toilet has never flushed well. We often have to pour a bucket of water down it to get it to flush completely.

When I look into the joist space under this toilet, I don't see any vent connected to it.

In the photo below, you can see a 3" pipe Wye. Follow the branch of the Wye that goes up. Just after it curves to the right (where it's supported by a 2x4) is the end of the pipe and the toilet flange. The flange is probably 40" from the Wye.

A bath tub and kitchen sink also empty into that same drain line. Both of these appear to be vented, but their vents are at least 12' away from the toilet.



If you were to follow the 3" pipe that runs left to right in the photo, about 8' further to the left (including a 90° bend), there's the 3" goes up to the roof as a vent. I'm guessing that there used to be a toilet there. (No, not on the roof... but then again... who knows!)

In the photo below, you can see that the 3" toilet drain is close to a 2" vent that joins with the 3" in the attic. I could open the wall behind the toilet and connect the vent to a new Wye on the 3" drain.



I've got even better access to a 1 1/2" pipe near where it joins the 2" vent. I could connect there fairly easily without opening the wall, but the connection would be lower than the toilet flange and the pipe is only 1 1/2", so it's probably a bad idea. (I have no idea why that 1 1/2" pipe is there. It runs toward the 3" and may join with the 3" as it heads down the wall. Maybe it was once a sink drain, but it's no longer used.)

How would you fix this mess?

Would installing a pressure-assisted toilet help?

Please let me know if you want me to try drawing a diagram of the complete tangle.

[azw]

I've decided to add a re-vent using the existing 2" vent in the wall.

I plan to cut a section out of the 3" drain, add a Sanitary Tee. Then I'll run the vent up inside the wall, add a 90° elbow, and connect to the 2" vent in the wall with another Sanitary Tee, at least 6" above the flood level of the toilet. Does that sound right?

But how do I fit a new Tee into the 3" drain pipe? After I cut out the section that will be replaced, won't the two ends be too close to insert the new Tee? Should I replace the run all the way to the toilet flange instead?

[massplumber2008]

AZW...

That sounds right except that you want to connect the 2" - 6" above the flood level rim of the LAVATORY... that is, you want to connect this vent so it is 6 inches higher than the tallest fixture on the floor (the lavatory or kitchen sink).

To connect the sanitary tee into this drain you either replace the flange or you will need 2-3" plastic shielded clamps... see picture below (available at all home supply store).

What kind of toilet do you have and is there a siphon jet at the toilet bowl??

Let me know here...

MARK

[azw]

Thanks, Mark!

The toilet is possibly an American Standard. The label at the back of the bowl is gone. Inside the tank it says "Standard Tank 40 83". 83 could be the year.

I don't see a jet at the back of the bowl, but there is a hole in the front of the bowl. Do you want to see a photo?

For the vent, there is nothing above the toilet's level connected at this time. Given how easy it would be now, I think I'll take the vent high enough for a sink just in case things change later.

[massplumber2008]

American standard is usually a good toilet. Lots of things that come to mind here, but sounds like you've had it and are ready to install a vent... ;)

I would have you install the sanitary tee... either way (with new flange or with shielded clamps)... and then stub the pipe above the floor and FLUSH THE TOILET before connecting it into the existing 2" vent.

See if that improves things before going to all the work of connecting into the 2" vent. If not, a pressure-assist toilet may work nicely here... or at least another toilet!

Good thinking on the future sink... you never know!

Let me know if have more questions...

[azw]

Could there easier ways to fix this? I'm not looking forward to the job!

I suppose I could install a different toilet to see if that works better.

[massplumber2008]

Compare cost of ripping into wall vs new toilet. Clearly this toilet is not vented properly, but you really present with an almost perfect 50/50 scenario...

Could be vent... could be toilet.. If toilet is super old american standard may be good idea to replace that first... then, if that fails... open walls and install vent.

Kohler makes a great regular toilet... the kohler wellworth. Also makes a great pressure-assist (highline)... but noisy flush here. American standard and Toto also makes a great many flushing toilets.

Tough one here...

[azw]

If I install a new toilet or even a pressure-assist toilet, is it possible that we wouldn't notice the missing vent?

The house was built in the early 1980s, but when the previous owner redid this bath, he may have used parts from rehab work he was doing on other houses.

The age of the house and the possibility that this could be a loser from someone else's house makes me think exchanging toilets might be worthwhile, if you think it's worth a shot.

I appreciate your helping me think this through!