[LostinLa]

To make a very long story, somewhat shorter. I am dating a girl. I'm 34, she's 28. She's very attractive, outgoing and what some may call "flirty".

When I met her five years ago, she was dating someone else. They were off an on, when we started dating casually. After a few months we started dating each other exclusively. Or, so I thought. Turned out she was still seeing him after that. When I confronted her about it, she claimed we never had an offficial talk abut only dating each other. She told me she only wanted to date me and she was only still seeing her x because she thought I was dating around as well. I was not. So we worked through it and started dating exclusively.

Two years passed and things were great. We had minor arguments but nothing major. We moved in together. We talked about getting married. I bought a ring to get engaged.

Then about a year passed and because of increasing fights I didn't ask her to marry me. She became bitter she wasn't engaged. She gave me a deadline to get engaged, I didn't meet it because I started to not trust her. Things became a disaster. We fought all the time. She went out with her friends and came home at late hours. One night I checked her phone and found that she was texting one of her x's asking him to meet up. I also saw texts to boyfriends she dated years ago, asking if they wanted to meet up for drinks. When I confronted her, she claimed they texted her and she was just responding, but never met them. I knew she was lying, but I couldn't prove it nor could I prove that she was out meeting up with other guys.

One night, I caught her hiding her phone whenever I would come around. So when she put it down I checked it. I found text messages to her married boss at 1am. When I confronted her about this, she admitted that texting him was probably inappropriate but that nothing sexual was going on. Again, I couldn't prove she was actually cheating, just texting her married boss.

A month later, she told me she needed time on her own and moved out. She claimed that things had been going downhill for a year. She was right, they were. I was willing to try and work things out. She was not. We broke up.

After our break up, she would text me on and off telling me she missed me and asking me to meet up with her. I did a few times, each time she would say she missed me but didn't want to be in a relationship with me again. This happened on and off for six months. She has admitted she dated other guys during this time but hasn't gone into specifics. I didn't date anyone else. I told her this.

We didn't speak for a few months, then one night I ran into her and we spent the night together. We started dating casually again. After months of off and on dating, we talked and agreed we wanted to get back together and be exclusive again. She said she needed the break up to realize how much I meant to her and that she knew now I was the person she wanted to marry. I decided to put the past behind us and all that has happened and move forward because she truly made me happier than anyone I have ever dated. She agreed to do the same.

The first few months of us getting back together started rough. I found out that she was still in contact with guys she may have dated when we broke up. She claimed that they were texting her asking her to hang out and that she was just responding but never seeing them out of respect for me. She said she was just being "friendly" with them (i.e. that they were just "guy friends" which she was allowed to have). I believe that she didn't see them because I know where she went on nights that I didn't see her. But the question that bothered me was why did she keep in contact with these guys if she wasn't seeing them and she wanted to be with me? The only answer I had was that she was keeping them as "back-ups" just in case.

We have now been back together officially for six months. We spend almost all our time together when not working. We talk again about getting married and she constantly tells me she wants to marry me and start our life.

In general, things are good. We have fun together. We love spending our time together. I am even contemplating marrying her again; thinking that it could work.

But then, ever so often, I catch her texting late at night. When I ask her who it is, she replies one of her friends names. I want to believe her, but based on the history, I just don't trust her. I try to put the past behind me and trust her but I get the feeling she's still doing something deceitful even though I know she is not out with other guys (at least for the past month) because she is with me.

I love her and do want to marry her. But I am driving myself being paranoid about her and her phone. For example, the last few weeks have been great. But then, last night, when we were sleeping I got up to get a drink in the middle of the night and saw a voicemail pop up on her phone at 1:45am. Curiousity got the best of me and I listened to it. It was from a guy's name I never heard before and said, "Hi, I saw that you called. I just wanted to call you back." That's it. Not about what or when she called. I found this person on Facebook and he is listed a Single male, her age, that is friends with her friends and went to her college.

Now, I know she hasn't been out with any guys in the past month unless she is sneaking them over to her house in the middle of the night or lying to me about who she is going out to dinner with when she says her friends.

But on the other hand, I can't think of any reason she should be getting voicemails from this guy at 1:45am? Especially, saying I was just returning your call? The catch now is, I can't bring it up because she will know I invaded her privacy. Which is what caused the break up the first time. But now I don't trust her again. So am I paranoid and bringing this mistrust on myself or is something wrong going on? How can someone who spends all her time with you, tells you she loves you and wants to marry you, then go out and apparently still contact other guys?

[fancyface4080]

Here is my take on this. I am a female. And I truly believe if that girl is really telling the truth y would she have a problem with talking to these so called "guy friends" in front of you? Y doesn't she text these "friends" in front of you? Y so secretive with all her texting/calling? So if she really wasn't trying to hide anything she wouldn't have a problem with you listening to her voicemails and looking through her phone right? And mind you that she always seems to be texting/calling her EX'S!! They are ex's for what ever reason right? So y still be in contact? To me it looks like she is up to no good. There is absolutely no reason y another dude should be texting, calling, or leaving voice messages at that hour of the night unless she makes it seem or is acting like she is still available. You've caught her many, many times. I think it is time you open up your eyes to what is really going on in your life. But I could be wrong. It just sounds so suspicious. Also her texing her boss... come on!! What kind of bull**** is that?? I text my boss but it is work related and during work hours. And it would be 1 message sent from me, 1 message received from boss, nothing more. Anything beyond that is for personal reasons. If you need to be truly sure @ this girl, after all you do want to marry her. You wouldn't want to marry a lying, deceiving, whore. I would get someone she does not know to follow her and really find out what she is up to for about a month. And if all turns out that she is telling the truth, then maybe you are a bit paranoid, but with good reason. Best to you. Hope it all works out in the end.

[rebeccahstrean]

Ok texting her boss? She probably was sleeping with him! Some girls like to stay in contact with their exs. Why? I don't know. I don't I don't like any of my exs. But it could be that sh'es with you cause she knows you will take her back after these guys get tired of her. Really I think she's using you as a back up.
If she told you that she needed a break to see what you meant to her then that's not healthy. You should know what the other person means to you cause if you don't then why are you with that person? Exactly!
At 1:45AM and guys are returning her calls usually means that these men are out all the time and out all night and called her when he got home or when his fling left.
Are you serious? Yes there is something wrong going on! It seems to me that she might feel things for you but she doesn't truly love you and that she's not in love with you. About you can't bring up the whole voice mail thing well she's putting you through all of this emotional distress that you Don't need, I would tell her or just break up with her.
You need to have trust in a relationship and believe me if you don't it won't work. It seems like you can't trust her. I think that you shouldn't be able to trust her cause of all of this. I would break it off with her! Well Its up to you just rememb er you don't need to break up with someone to know what that person means to you

[LostinLa]

Thanks for your feedback. Therein lies the issue. I have my suspicions but I can't and have never been able to PROVE anything.

On one hand, she shouldn't be getting calls at 1:45am from men. On the other hand, the voicemail simply said "I am returning your call." What if it was innocent and she called this guy earlier in the day. I also remember around this time she said her dog accidentially called a bunch of people late at night. What if that happened again? Maybe I am just being naïve. But what I do know is, if she is being unfaithful, then she's an expert about it. Because she spends all her free time and weekends with me. And when she isn't with me, she calls me. So, maybe she is calling or texting other men, but it would be almost impossible for her to be with them.

And with respect to the boss and other x's she texted. Again, I can't prove anything. And when I did confront her about them; she swears nothing inappropriate happened. Or, if she did go out with other guys, it was when we were broken up.

I don't get it. Why would she spend all her time with me, tell me she loves me and wants to marry me. Only make plans to do things with me. And then carry on talking to other guys on the side but not seeing them? If that even is the case.

[LostinLa]

One other thing I forgot to mention. When I used to have a Facebook account, I was able to see messages she posted. From the time she moved out up until two about three months ago (the time that we initially got back together) she was posting messages on guys Facebook accounts telling them to meet her and her friends for drinks and calling them "handsome", etc. I haven't been able to see any of these postings recently and god knows what she is writing in private messages but just seeing this makes me think that something else was going on.

Again, however, I can't prove it. I know she will claim she was being friendly or we "weren't officially back together". But reading this stuff makes me sick.

[ITstudent2006]

FancyFace4080- I agree with you, but is typing the word "why" really that time consuming?

Rebeccah- Don't assume she's sleeping with the boss. I talk to my bosses; who are female, after hours and it means nothing. Your answer is so judgemental and assumptuouis.

"or when his fling left."

I mean really? You make it sound like every phone call late at night is for sex and every guy has flings. You talk about trust , etc... but I believe you have your own relationship issues and are in no position to assume, advise or lecture relationship issues at this point. Sorry if this seems mean but your post just rubbed me the wrong way!


LostinLA- I'll keep this short and to the point. Knowing how the past 5 years have been, the struggles, the stress, the questioning and all the doubt. Is this really what you want in a wife?

Let me be honest with you. If you two get married, based on the info you wrote and the vibe I am getting, I don't think it's got a good chance of lasting. You may love her but by her actions I don't think she is truly in love with you!

[fancyface4080]

Gotcha... I'm just so used to texting "Y". I'll remember that for my next post. ;)

[mystific]

First off the bat, what were doing going through her phone? Ok so you had your suspicions, it still doesn't give you the right to go through her phone without her permission.

To the issue at hand. Have you cleared a night where you have no outside interferrance, phones turned off and had a full on heart to heart. Explaining the reasons for your hesitations for getting married, your trust issues in detail because it is inappropriate to be texting your boss after hours (that early in the morning, unless her line of work is an oncall 24 hr) and receiving calls or texts from men at indecent times? Yes and you're going to have to admit about invading her privacy.. but isn't this all about being honest with each other?

You can't commit yourself to this relationship or go any further without some serious discussions about her actions and where it could possibly lead too and the destruction it could leave.

If its not something you can talk about openly or feel you're going to get an honest feedback from then I think given her prior history, its time to leave it as it is and move on. There's only so much rope you can give someone. How far are you willing to see her go? Or are you happy to sit around and be her fallback guy?

I wouldn't of got back with her the second time around. She's a repeat offender who feeds off being 'wanted'. You're not going to be able to fulfill everything she needs to make herself feel good about herself.

Time to find someone who wants and needs just you and doesn't need a pool of sharks to do that for her.

[answerme_tender]

Why are you back with this woman? Same woman,same stress of not knowing, same crap. Why do we stay with a person that we have so little trust that we resort to snooping in their personal belongings. If it gets that bad and especially if they have a history why are you with them. Seems you either accept the faults that you knew she had, or finally get out of situation and this time get on with your life without her!
There are woman out there that can be trusted!!

[DoulaLC]

I'd get it all out on the table once and for all. Fess up to the checking, admit you were wrong to do so (although I don't know many people who wouldn't do some kind of checking if they thought their partner was up to something), voice your concerns.

Let her know that you love her, want to marry her, but that you also want to be able to trust her again and that it will take time to rebuild that. Tell her you want a totally open and honest relationship so that is why you are taking the risk of opening up your heart and sharing your fears with her.

IF she is willing to accept and acknowledge her part in the problems that you are having and is willing to work towards rebuilding that level of trust with you with whatever it takes, then you have a chance at the sort of relationship you would likely want to have. At some point you will have to resist the urge to keep checking, and allow her to gain back the trust. It is a leap of faith on your part, but to not do so will only prevent you from moving forward.

IF she makes little effort, is not willing to listen to you, tries to turn it back on you in some way, etc. it won't work. You will be destined to continue to relive what you are experiencing now if you stay with her.

Do not marry her if you are not able to trust her... it really is that simple.

[LostinLa]

Ok, so I couldn't take letting it eat me up inside. So, talked to her basically ackowledging that I saw some random guy call her phone at 2am and expressing my concerns about what has been going on with the texts, etc.

Her reply was simply, "He's a friend of a friend. I haven't talked to him in a long time. Not sure why he called me, but I didn't call him back. And, I am not doing anything wrong. I talk to my friends and my co-workers and that is it. That's who I text late at night. I have friends who are guys, who I may have dated in the past, but I am friends with them now. Any issues you had, you should be over. We broke up, but we're back together now and I am not doing anything wrong."

So, I'm back to square one. She denies doing anything wrong. Yells at me for violating her privacy and tells me I should trust her and that she can talk to whomever she wants, but that she is not doing anything wrong. She claims that she should be allowed to talk to other guys "who are friends" and send them messages. Since I don't have any evidence of her physically being with them or evidence of "inappropriate" messages, I have no proof. I just know all these guys are single and she flirts with them whenever she goes out as they are all part of a group of friends she is in.

I know that I don't trust her based on her history and the way she acts. There are posts ALL OVER her Facebook wall to/from these guys "who are her friends" inviting them over for dinner or to meet for drinks right around the time we broke up and even when we just started dating again. But nothing to that effect recently except for a Facebook post to a random guy I don't know telling him that they should "meet up" when they were both going to the same beach one day. When I confronted her about this post at the time, her response was "oh, he's some guy a co-worker wanted me to date when you and I broke up, but I was only talking to him so I could try and set him up with one of my single friends". Again, these are only the posts and messages that are public, I have no idea what she gets/writes privately.

I don't know what to believe. I am 100% positive she was still talking to guys when we started dating again but that was months ago. And even though I stopped talking to other girls when we started dating again, I am sure she continued on seeing them. That is just the type of person she is. But I can't find any evidence of wrongdoing recently. Or at least anything she doesn't have a rebuttal or a denial for. She just acts overly protective of her phone and I will see her whip it out and text someone whenever I walk away. But I have no idea if it's really her friends as she claims it is.

It's an awful situation. To be with someone you love and would do anything for. But you don't trust and has treated you like garbage in the past but claims to love you and be completely honest and faithful with you now. I don't know what to do. I've spent five years of my life being faithful so I can marry her. And, all I feel is mistrust and disrepsect from her, but she blames it solely on me saying that I'm paranoid and insecure. And, I can't prove otherwise.

[DoulaLC]

I am so sorry that you are going through this but unless you can give her the benefit of the doubt, and try to accept what she is saying as the truth, you really should put the breaks on any thoughts of marriage... at least for now.

If you need more time to work though the past experiences of distrust, then take that time and let her know you need it. Do not enter into marriage with all of this hanging over you.

Would she be open to couples counseling to help the relationship be in a better place? That may let you know how much she is willing to invest in the two of you as a couple.

It may come down to you having to cut your losses and move on so that you can eventually be in a healthier relationship that does not include the baggage.

However, this experience will follow you into any new relationship, so do the work necessary to regain your self-esteem first.

[answerme_tender]

Iam sorry that you are going through this. So why are you still with her!! You seem like a smart guy, when did you lose couple pieces of your anatomy to this woman!

Okay being alone is NOTHING to look forward to, its lonely, but at least your not always worried about someone bringing home any STD's to you. You don't have to listen to the lies, the constant stress of who is she texting now, or meeting behind your back.

You either decide to stay and marry this woman, who might be the future mother to your children. Or pickup those couple of pieces of anatomy and move on. Get out with friends, get on with your life period. Stop wasting it!

[mystific]

Its always saddening to see women who use men in such a fashion. I'd like to get a room full of men in your situation and ask why you insist on putting yourself through this emotional rollercoaster!

No woman, when she is in a committed relationship should continue to contact other men.. friend or otherwise (family different) at non social hours. It is immoral and disrespectful.

She doesn't respect your or value your relationship that highly if she continues to do as such and thinks nothing of it. Too me she just sounds like a chronic tease. Surely you deserve better?

Let her carry on at her own pace, Im fairly certain she's probably got a healthy reputation going for her.

So really the choice is yours. Drop her like a dead weight... fast or continue on letting her use you like she does every other male on her texting list. Only difference is.. she gets to sleep with you.. but that's no guarantee she's thinking of you when she is.

[Barry1981]

I would say, go with your gut. If my girlfriend was getting calls at all these crazy hours then damn right I would be suspicious. She needs to tell these people to stop bethering her if she's serious show more commitment and understanding of where you're coming from. However, its extremely difficult to make a decision on whether to continue when you have no solid proof.

Personally, I would end it... you can't even begin to consider marrying this person based on the state of your relationship. Granted, you don't know for sure she's cheating but the signs are there...

[LostinLa]

Well, even after the conversation and the denial, things have moved on pretty standardly for the past couple days. We talk, we see each other, we make plans to go on trips for Thanksgiving and Christmas. She acts like everything is good. I convinced myself that she couldn't be cheating on me - at least physically - she hasn't been anywhere I don't know about for the past month. So, unless she's having guys come over in the middle of the night when I'm not there - then it's impossible. Now, who she's calling, texting, or what she's doing on Facebook - that could be a whole different story.

Inside, all I can think about is how I don't trust her and all of the awful things she has done in the past. Things, however, technically I should have gotten over to get back together with her after we broke up. We agreed to forgive and forget. But I can't. I find myself thinking about it everyday and it is affecting my life.

I feel like I have been in this same situation before. Where everything seemed good and then I discovered she was messaging other guys. She claims this only happened when we knew that things with us were ending or before we were "official". She justifies everything to herself and seems OK with it.

The truth is, I don't know is what she's doing now. I'm supposed to trust her. And, maybe she's being honest and has truly changed. Or, maybe she's lying to me again. What I DO KNOW is what she's done in the past; she was still seeing her x when we first started dating (even though "technically" we never had an official talk at that point about being exclusive), she lied to me about talking to other guys on Facebook right before we broke up, and I know she made plans to meet up with at least one guy when we first started dating again after the break-up; but she claimed this was for her "single" friend. Personally, I think she met him on Facebook and when they met he just didn't like her.

So the question is, is all this my fault? Am I paranoid? Overly sensative? Going crazy? Am I causing myself all this stress and pain for no reason? I just want to marry someone who has always wanted to be with me and only me. And has never lied to me. Or, contacted other guys. But is that realistic? Doesn't everyone at this young age stray? Doesn't everyone like to have a "back-up plan" - just in case? Is it unrealistic to want someone who is perfect?

What I can't understand is why date someone for 5 years, tell them you want to marry them and spend all your time with them, just to lie to them and keep talking to other guys on the side (if that's what is going on again)? The rub is, she's perfect for me in every other way (beautiful, fun, we get along , have exact matches in common interests, love to do the same thing, have the same values, have great families) and I KNOW I will never meet someone I am as compatible with... but inside I KNOW she is not a good person (I am just holding on to hope she can change). I know she has lied and I know she is selfish. The problem now is that I am so invested after five years I just can't risk losing her unless I have solid proof in my face. But at that point it may be too late.

[DoulaLC]

I don't think there is anything more that can be said. You will have to somehow comes to terms with the past and how it effects your present.

That may simply be a matter of more time with her to feel confident nothing more than some harmless talking is going on. It may mean talking with a counselor to help you work through things. It may be taking a leap of faith because of all the other great attributes she has.

Consider a combination of all three if you decide you want to continue with the relationship. Certainly hold off on marriage or even the talk of marriage. See if you get to a place where it really feels right to you.

I can tell you from experience that there are other people out there who you would be very compatible with. Some may not have all of the same traits, but they may actually have others that you would like to see in your current girlfriend.

Consider what traits are important to you and what you feel would be important in a marriage partner. If she doesn't hold the top spots, marriage won't change that.

And no, not every person at that young age strays. If someone is in a committed relationship, it shouldn't happen, regardless of age.

[LostinLa]

Well, here's an update. Things have been about the same for the past month. I am fairly confident she is not cheating - or at least anymore. I talk to her almost every night on the phone before bed and she has stopped acting "shady" for the most part - but is still over protective of her phone. The bottom line is - it is almost impossible for her to be cheating because I know where she is.

That being said, it is amazing to me how selfish she is. She has always been selfish and stubborn - but as the years have gone by it is getting worse and worse. She will only do things that are convenient for her and will never put herself out to do something for me. But on the other hand she constantly tells me she loves me and wants to get married. And when we are around each other she acts nice to me.

To give you an example, we live about 40 miles away from each other. Typically we see each other one night a week after work and then spend all weekend together. Previously we would alternate coming to each other on the weeknights and weekends because it is a lot of time driving an hour back and forth after work.

For the past month she refuses to drive to me. So, last week we had plans on a Tuesday - which she canceled the same day saying she wanted to see her friend she hasn't seen in a while (which was true). She said we could do something Wed. The next day came around and she decided she didn't want to drive to me, so she canceled again (saying, I could drive to her if I wanted to see her but she wasn't going to drive).

That weekend she had plans to go out with the guys she works with right next to my house (most of them are married - but that's a whole different story - let's just say they're very rich and she loves going out with them because they pay for everything). She said we could possibly meet up after and she would call me. I didn't hear from her till Midnight. And at that point she just sent a txt to say she got a ride with one of her co-workers and she's alredy home.

The next day, I ask her what is going on? After dating someone for five years, you just don't care if you see them all week and its more important to you to see your friends and go out with your co-workers than to see me? Her response was "After five years, it really doesn't matter to me, I'll see you when I see you." This causes a major fight. For me, it is a huge sign of disrespect. You want to marry someone and it's more important to you to see your friends and hang out with your co-workers than make an attempt to be with that person? I ask her if she would prefer that I just do something with my friends that weekend instead of see her. She says if that's what I want to do. Then instead of trying to work it out - she just gets mad and says the whole conversation just makes her even more mad and she doesn't want to talk about it. It takes me having to drive to her to work things out. Once I do, everything is fine again and she's affectionate and says she loves me, etc. She promises to work on being a better girlfriend and do things.

Fast forward to this week. We had plans to see each other on Tuesday again. Guess who cancels saying she won't drive to me because it's raining too hard. But if I wanted to come to her that's fine.

How is it possible that someone is so selfish they only care about themselves and won't put themselves out for the person they say they want to marry and tell on a daily basis they are in love with? I understand that she has always been stubborn (I have learn to accept that) - but how can someone just not care if they see the person they're with but then when they're around them act like they are in love? When it comes to easy things like calling or texting or me coming to her - she's great. But when she has to drive, or mess up her routine, or do something I want to do that she doesn't like - it just won't happen.

[talaniman]

After 5 years of this crap, what's it going to take for you to tell your heart to shut the hell up, and use your mind to see the facts glaring you in your face, and let this go. She ain't going to marry you. Her actions are as obvious as the nose on your face. And you need to stop chasing a dream, because you are the only one in love, and she is in love with herself, and whatever she wants and it ain't you, at least not all the time!

You are but an option, kept around for her own amusement when she has time. You are probably not the only fish on a string, and if you continue to be blind, this will go on as it is forever.

This is where it gets harsh, you are stuck very badly on what's bordering stupid. I am sorry, but anything that doesn't hit you hard between the eyes seems to go unnoticed. Take heed as you have wasted 5 years already and I can see 5 more going down the drain.

It doesn't have to be that way if you can be unstuck, or man up and tell her to get the freak out of your life. Me I would have disappeared and found me a female who was worthy of what I had to offer and could trust her loyalty, and knows she feels the same way I do. Heck, I would have a few kids and a dog by now.

Get off this dead end street, because she hasn't changed in 5 year, what's another 5 going to do for you?

[mystific]

And when we are around each other she acts nice to me

Really? When my dog is around I treat her nicely too.

Her response was "After five years, it really doesn't matter to me, I'll see you when I see you." This causes a major fight. For me, it is a huge sign of disrespect.

Seriously? Just a sign of disrespect? I would have been pissed off. Admittedly, she would have been curb dropped a fair while back now, but that, for me would have been the final straw. Anything that she had in my place would have been bagged and binned. Utter and complete NC.

I believe you're completely naïve. Grow up and smell the roses. You're just her whipping boy.. nothing more and never will be.