[paraclete]

Yes Tom been there done that and had to raise a family with 18% interest rates, etc, etc. none of which is an excuse for not understanding that when you are employed there are minimums associated with the value of work that need to be applied.

However I see among the remarks in this thread a lack of understanding of the present economic circumstances. There was a time when we passed through a golden age, low energy prices, low unemployment and plenty of opportunity. Those days are behind us and we must change our thinking.
We destroyed manufacturing two ways, we sent the industries offshore and we automated and those two things ensured that we would not have the same level of employment for the masses. Not in the mines, not in the factories, not in agriculture but maybe in the service industries. However education also played its part. We have got to stop thinking in terms of working lives of fifty years or even longer, because that is not reality for most of the population. We are about to enter an era of unprecidented levels of disease, of vastly different climate and we need to start thinking about dealing with unemployment by not expanding the number of people in the workforce but contracting it. Lack of education has to become unacceptable, every person will have to undergo training before being allowed to participate in the workforce and society will have to care for those who arn't in the workforce and find something meaningful for them to do.

[cdad]

Is raising it enough to match what they get in food stamps unreasonable? Haven't figured out what that is yet, but its where I would start. But as I remember one of Obamas proposals was for a training program for the unemployed where companies would get subsidies for the salaries they paid. That sounded reasonable but went nowhere.

Why not pay them as much as the government does? Welfare queens have an ecinomic advantage at making 60K in benefits through the welfare system. Thats about $30 an hour. Is that living enough for you? Keep in mind that eating out is a luxury. So when it gets to expensive there are plenty of alternitives to eat besides going out to a food establishment.

[Wondergirl]

What percentage of people (and who are they?) getting food stamps AREN'T scamming the system and really need the help?

[cdad]

Now many think that's an okay business model but replacing good middle class jobs with minimum wage ones that working people have to supplement is not a good way to solve OUR economic problems and needs. Average income is going down, not up, prices and cost or going up not down, so something is way out of balance here.

While it's a very emotional topic the value of a person shouldn't be the job or paycheck they bring home. I reject the whole notion of entry level jobs in the first place as a job is much more than just an experience, it's a necessity. And its honest work, and that has value.

A few things your missing here. It is Obama that is causing everything to be out of alaignment. He is the one that removed Gasoline and Food from the inflationary calculation in his hopes of making himself look good by holding back inflation. If you want jobs to return and oney to come back to this country and make this economy grow at a rocketing pace then start screaming at your representatives to pass "The Fair Tax". They will flood this country with money if it is passed.

On the second part of your comment Im trying to figure out how you think any skilled labor can survive without having a labor ladder to climb. All skilled labor is based on a ladder system and that is how that job is judged. Being an apprentise and moving through to journeyman then master has always existed. How can you just equate one persons skill with another when you have knowlage and experience gained in the chosen field ? It makes absolutely no sense.

[talaniman]

I know of no such widespread scamming that's been perpetuated unless they are criminals but most who have nothing. Work, to keep the nothing they have and are surprisingly happy to do so. They have dreams and often sacrifice so there kids can have better than they do.

Not saying there are no welfare queens, but not as many as you seem to purport. So your broad disparaging is simply inaccurate. Welfare recipients spend less than two years on the rolls and the expenditure is barely 1% of the budget. Your turn to look up the facts.

[cdad]

Here you go. Welfare benefits at thier minimums.


The Work versus Welfare Trade-Off: 2013 | Cato Institute


Another report also:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...-in-35-states/

[talaniman]

How can you just equate one persons skill with another when you have knowlage and experience gained in the chosen field ? It makes absolutely no sense.

I am talking about raising the federal minimum wage DAD, not reconfiguring the work ladder. Localities and states are already doing it. Workers are organizing too, and that usually means higher wages. I don't know why you think billion dollar companies that pay low wages and are given tax breaks to do business need even more tax breaks. That makes no sense. Sound more like robbery, extortion, or blackmail to me.

Extracting profits at the expense of people is more criminal than what a welfare queen does to scam system. You are advocating more corporate welfare.

[talaniman]

Thanks for the links, I have actually read them but lets cut to the chase, instead of cutting benefits, raise the wage and we wouldn't need welfare nor would there be an incentive to stay on it would there?

Then the net wouldn't be a hammock as so many conservative make it to be then we can address corporate welfare that the so called job creators are hooked on. The obvious bias of both your links is perpetrating high profits, and cheap labor. There is no reasonable balance between people and profits.

[cdad]

Pass the fair tax. You close ALL loopholes. As far as raising the minimum wage what you do is raise the base wage that other wages are tweaked from. If you just raise minimum wage and try to freeze all other wage platforms then you create a world where no one can live. You want to give them a raise? Pass the fair tax.

[talaniman]

When you get enough republican votes together have at it as this bill has been stalled in committee for a year by your own leaders. Jacking up the price of goods and huge tax breaks for high earners is a recipe for disaster but let me know when the vote on this old idea.

[tomder55]

I don't know why you think billion dollar companies that pay low wages and are given tax breaks to do business need even more tax breaks. That makes no sense. Sound more like robbery, extortion, or blackmail to me.

You must think every business in the country is a mega-corporation . I wonder if you've considered the impact of a higher min wage on the small business and how it will affect their hiring practice ,and even if it will impact their ability to stay in business.

[tomder55]

Pass the fair tax.

right on!!

[talaniman]

Even you have admitted many times the capitalistic business model is broken. But you rather continue it than fix it. And stop comparing mega companies with low wages to small businesses that are both diverse and local. Apples and oranges Tom, and you know it.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

I wonder if you've considered the impact of a higher min wage on the small business and how it will affect their hiring practice ,and even if it will impact their ability to stay in business.

I'm a small businessman.. The prices I pay for goods and labor have been going up for a LONG, LONG time. If THAT was gonna put me out of business, it would have happened a LONG time ago.

But, you bring up an interesting issue...

MOST of the fast food workers are ALSO on Medicaid and food stamps.. That means that you and I are subsidizing fast food workers.. As a right winger, you know that kind of governmental interference artificially keeps the prices of labor low, thereby allowing these companies to stay in business...

IF these companies CANNOT survive WITHOUT a government subsidy, they DESERVE to go broke.. Doncha think?

Now, I'm NOT an economist, and I'm not privy to McDonald's books.. But, I'm willing to bet that an increase of $.25 CENTS per burger would BE born by the burger consuming public WITHOUT a word, and it would be MORE than enough to raise their minimum wage to $15/hr.

Let's just take a BILLION burgers a year... How much is $.25 CENTS times a BILLION??

excon

[speechlesstx]

You're going to have to give some stats on the claim that most fast food workers are on food stamps and Medicaid. I don't believe that for a minute. I already gave BLS statistics that show half of the 4.7% of minimum wage earners are under 25 and that includes every segment of the workforce such as retail, not just fast food.

[speechlesstx]

P.S. All those outraged fast food workers? Seems most of them went to work while paid union protesters hollered and threw rocks.

What We Saw at NYC's Fast Food Strike - Reason.com

[talaniman]

That's what unions do. Raise the standard of living for workers. What would YOUR boss pay you without the prevailing wages that UNIONS fought for?

[joypulv]

You can be sure that when just about everyone is carrying a fancy printed sign, all alike, that unions are behind it.

I heard the other night (on news about Detroit's bankruptcy) that the AFL CIO is sitting on over 4 billion in trust assets and 100 million in cash. Gee. Ugh.

[talaniman]

Corporate Layoffs - Are Taxpayers Subsidizing Corporate Profits? - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Are We Subsidizing Corporate Profits with Tax Dollars by Allowing Them to Pay a Non-Livable Minimum Wage? - CafeMom

Taxpayers Are Subsidizing The Profits Of Walmart, McDonald's

[tomder55]

as I already stated ,the unions stand to gain the most as contracts are typically tied to the min wage rate . That is the real reason for this manufactured issue .....well that and the horrible story of the Obamacare launch and all the lies by the adm over it.

And about the price of those burgers ? If it wasn't for the dollar menu that they've recently adopted I'd never frequent their franchises.