[asking]

Alty is so right. There is no upside to voluntarily giving away the right to be a full citizen and human.

If you only obey some of the time, basically when you feel like it, you are not actually obedient, just complying when you feel like it. Obedience is ultimately the result of some form of coercion, whether economic, physical, or emotional.

[asking]

PS. Keep seeing your childhood friend.

[arcura]

That last three posts here have been particularly good in addition to others.
If I tried to boss my wife around I would be in deep trouble.
I think that should e the case in most marriages if not all.
It makes for a bad marriage.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[snotbubble]

Here's what disturbed me about your post;



The words "let me" then "I never get to go out, especially with the friends he doesn't like"

That's controlling, demanding, domineering and in my life, not acceptable.

Another red flag that leads me to believe that you won't have a say in anything, that he does have control;



Authority? Are you getting married or going to jail? Doing what he says? Is her your husband or your father? As for parenting, yes, you do have a say, they're you kids too.

This just leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

Like I said before, I respect your choices, your religion, I really do, but this just shocks the heck out of me.

Yeah the situation of him not letting me go out with my friends is a complaint not a compliant to what he tells me to do. He just says he'll leave me if I go out with my friend Stephanie. For some reason he thinks I'm incapable of not getting drunk. He thinks guys will take advantage of me at parties and whatnot. And then he won't even go to the party with me because he doesn't like being around people he doesn't know and then we just stay home arguing about it. In the past He also didn't want me to go snowboarding, which I used to do every winter, and spent tons of money for my own board to do. I haven't been for the past 3 years because he's worried about guys hitting on me since there won't be many other girls out there. But now he said he doesn't care anymore. I think it's just a trust issue and it can be fixed. It's already getting better.

Pluss I'm not just going to say " you, i'm going" . He can't go with me and he's worried about other guys hitting on me and I can understand that. There was a time when he worked at a restaurant when we first dated and all the girls flirted with him and he didn't even realize it. The girls just totally ignored me while they were all over him (not physically) and it pissed me off. He wanted to go back to that job but he didn't because I didn't want the girls all over him even though he didn't even see it that way. He just didn't go because I didn't want him to. It's a matter of respect not authority.

I know I have say over our future kids and he knows too. I wasn't writing that in a way that I was asking for permission to have say in parenting. I was writing it in a way that meant "is this what the bible says? that I am supposed to play the mother role yet won't have complete say in the parenting unless he allows it?" I was asking people who know more about the bible if that was the case. And their answer was NO. that isn't the case.

[snotbubble]

he is using God as an excuse to make himself God


I have one word

RUN

Ha ha. I understand what you're saying but I don't think he's like that. What did I say to make you think that about him? Just curious. He doesn't use bible verses in his defense. He's not like... "woman listen to be for the bible tells you to."

He was a little controlling but that's just a trouble spot in a relationship, which happens in any relationship and it's one I'm willing to work with. He's already letting go of a lot of his old habbits. I think he had those habbits just from jealousy out of other guys possibly liking me, which in the bible is a vice and he knows that.

He has the best sense of humor, loves kids, will be a great dad, he's a genius, he helps me out all the time, he's always there for me emotionally, we can't ever seem to leave eachothers side, he does so much for me, he stands up for me, he's caring, he's close with his family and mine, we get along great, we enjoy a lot of the same hobbies, he's extremely loyal, very romantic, cares about other people, loves animals (except cats), cute, creative, fun, outgoing...

He's too much of what I want to let one issue (that we are already working on) ruin it all and that's why I want to marry him. He's as close to perfect as I could ever get. (just saying nobody is perfect-not that I'm settling for him)

[Alty]

So what if guys flirt with you? It's only a problem if you flirt back.

He doesn't seem to trust you very much, and that's a very big thing to deal with when deciding to get married.

No trust, no relationship. That's the way it is, bible or not.

[snotbubble]

Alty is so right. There is no upside to voluntarily giving away the right to be a full citizen and human.

If you only obey some of the time, basically when you feel like it, you are not actually obedient, just complying when you feel like it. Obedience is ultimately the result of some form of coercion, whether economic, physical, or emotional.

Good way to put it. The situations aren't black and white like that though. It's not like he tells me what to do and I do it because he told me to. I'm not going to get into all that because my relationship with him wasn't the point. I wanted help understanding what the bible says. That's it. But yeah, I understand your concern but I doubt my relationship is what you think it is. There were just a few times we argued over certain things. It happens in any and all relationships.

[snotbubble]

So what if guys flirt with you? It's only a problem if you flirt back.

He doesn't seem to trust you very much, and that's a very big thing to deal with when deciding to get married.

No trust, no relationship. That's the way it is, bible or not.

I understand what you're saying but that's not how him and I are. I don't like girls flirting with him and he doesn't like guys flirting with me and neither of us would flirt back. We're both clingy to one another so obviously we don't mind one another being that way. Maybe it's less of a trust issues and more of a self esteem issue. We both trust each other. I don't go snowboarding with a bunch of guys around because I wouldn't want him going somewhere without me where a bunch of girls would be all over him. That's just what we do. I know most people don't care if their significant other has people hitting on them as long as they don't do it back and that makes a lot of sense to me and I wish I was that way too but for whatever reason I'm not. It would bother me as much as I would like to pretend that it doesn't. And it bothers him too.

He would never flirt with another girl but I get very jealous when one even talks him. Ironicaly, he just got out of class and told me there's this girl I hate that likes him and used to have his school schedule memorized just so she could run into him and she's in his class, sitting next to him, and they'll have group projects in the class. She also talked negatively about me to him a few years ago before I even got with him and she was trying to get with him (jealousy gets the best of everyone). I'm not going to say anything to him or make him not talk to her but I still have that "bblaaaaa that sucks so bad!!!" feeling for lack of better words. Luckily she gained more weight. I have an extreme hate for this girl and I hardly know her, it's just because she likes my fiancé

[asking]

So if there was a guy who hated your fiancée and pursued you that aggressively and happened to end up in your class, would you sit next to him and then tell your fiancée all about it?

I do understand that you were looking for biblical backing one way or another and I'm sorry I (personally) don't know the Bible enough to be helpful. Some of us know a lot about marriage though.. . And some people here were just concerned for you. I think it sounded to a lot of us as though your behavior was being more limited than his was and would be more so in the future if things continued this way. Being together every minute feels great when you are first in love, but when he goes off to work and you are at home with little kids all day, you will eventually (desperately) need some grown up time with adults other than him. For that, you need family, friends, colleagues. So whatever happens, don't let yourself become isolated.

My mother used to say, "I just want to talk to someone more than 3 feet tall!"

[arcura]

asking,
That was very good.
Fred

[JudyKayTee]

My concern is that for whatever reason this question was posted - that indicates some level of uncertainty about the relationship to me.

[NeedKarma]

Okay, I don't frequent the Christianity boards anymore, but I saw this and I have to say something.

Husband as ruler?

Are we still living in the 1700's? Did we not get the right to vote, bear arms, fight for our country, get equal pay for equal work and all that jazz?

Are there really people still out there that allow this?

Well there is this: Promise Keepers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They actively promote the man as being the head of the household. They are even more militant about that in canada:
Promise Keepers Canada

I remember when I lived in Montreal they came to do a big rally there. Montreal women are quite independent regardless of religion. It did not go over well.

[classyT]

Alty,

The husband should be the final authority as he is suppose to be the head of the house. That is in a perfect world. That is how the Lord Jesus would Ideally want it. You can't have 2 heads or you are considered a freak or ODD. Unfortunately the Lord is talking to GODLY people not carnel Christians. If my husband is abusing me, or not considering my feelings, or selfish, or even directing his family to do Ungodly things.. obviously the Lord would have NONe of this.

Also remember that the husbands have been told to LOVE their wives as Christ loves the church. When a husband does THIS very thing.. it isn't hard to submit to him. And remember, the husband should always considered the woman's feelings and ideas. A man that truly loves his wife... compromises.

There ARE times when perhaps there is a really hard decision to make and if the man is truly the type of man that the Lord has outlined. Then I DO think it is appropriate to follow his lead. If it should be the wrong decision... the Lord will take care of the wife and kids for obeying. But I can't stress enough that the Lord isn't talking about men who claim to be Christians and live lukewarm at best.

I hate when Christian principles are misunderstood. The Lord Jesus is a loving God. He knows what he is doing. You show me a man that loves his wife like Christ loves the church ( or TRIES to) and I will show you a very very happy wife. Unfortunately, it is VERY few and far between.

Remember the Lord isn't saying ALL women are to submit to their husbands no matter what. No WAY!

NOTE: The Lord has made women in general to have MUCH influence over their husbands... you see it over and over in the Bible. Everything in balance really does work.

[s_cianci]

Your husband is your spiritual head. He's not your dictator but he makes the decisions, in collaboration with you. When you are in disagreement, show him from scripture why you disagree with him. And ask him to show you, likewise from scripture, why he feels the way he does. For example, why does he not like this friend of yours? Is it for a biblical reason? If so, then he's in the right and you should support him in that. But if not, then it's up to you to point out to him why he's wrong. Also keep in communication with your pastor. He's the one to counsel you on what's expected as far as your role of being the wife and submitting to your husband's leadership. Likewise your husband should counsel with the pastor as well so that he knows his role as spiritual leader of the family.

[s_cianci]

Do you know of a passage that would say drinking even in moderation is wrong? people always use the excuse of everyone in the bible drinking wine and i know it says only in moderation but i can't imagine giving a 17 year old some wine and saying "now, only drink a little bit" like they'll never want to have more than they should.

Also, a 17-year-old is underage and it is therefore illegal for someone that age to drink. And the scriptures admonish us to obey the civil magistrates. So biblically, a 17-year-old should not be permitted to drink alcohol.

[s_cianci]

And lastly, please pay attention to classyT's response. That really sums it all up as to what it's all about.

[asking]

I kind of think the OP understood most of this. My impression was that she was looking for specific Biblical references that would resolve her doubts.

Is there a list of Biblical passages that specifically address marital relations? I would think there would be.

Also, in response s_cianci's comment:

For example, why does he not like this friend of yours? Is it for a biblical reason? If so, then he's in the right and you should support him in that. But if not, then it's up to you to point out to him why he's wrong.

Doesn't this kind of reasoning motivate people to interpret the Bible in their own favor rather than dispassionately and rigorously? A woman would be tempted to say "it says this, not that. I'm right." And the husband would say, "No. I think it means that I'm right, not you."

Likewise, if something's not specifically proscribed in the Bible, does that necessarily make it right?

[s_cianci]

Also, in response s_cianci's comment:

Quote:
For example, why does he not like this friend of yours? Is it for a biblical reason? If so, then he's in the right and you should support him in that. But if not, then it's up to you to point out to him why he's wrong.

Doesn't this kind of reasoning motivate people to interpret the Bible in their own favor rather than dispassionately and rigorously? A woman would be tempted to say "it says this, not that. I'm right." And the husband would say, "No. I think it means that I'm right, not you."

Likewise, if something's not specifically proscribed in the Bible, does that necessarily make it right?

That's where talking to a pastor or elder comes into play. If a couple is in disagreement as to the scriptural interpretation of the situation in question, then clarify it with someone more knowledgeable than yourselves. And there's really no such thing as something "not specifically proscribed in the Bible." The answer to literally any question is there. Again, it may require the assistance of a pastor or elder to find it but it's there all the same.

[adam7gur]

I found Derek Prince's book '' Husbands and fathers '' really helpful.

[JudyKayTee]

I am somewhat confused why Leviticus which explains which animals are clean and which are unclean is part of this post on a Christian board.

Deuteronomy is far more comprehensive and explains Jewish beliefs in great detail.