[Wondergirl]

You keep forgetting that I seem to be the only here who actually believes in personal charity. You liberal dems love to brag about how you get the gov to use someone else's money to care for poor people so you don't have to get involved yourselves.

What a mean thing to say! You have no idea how we help others, including the homeless, the hungry, the disabled, orphans, indigenous peoples, worthy charities, plus animals in shelters, especially animals that were abused and neglected.

[jlisenbe]

What a mean thing to say!

That's a fair point. I must admit that I thought about you when I said it, and Tom as well. But I will say that you lose a lot of credibility with me with your selective criticism as shown by your non-response to, "what was jl's favourite charity again, yes it was jl." If you want to be more believed, then point out mean comments from your own side, and especially the particularly dumb ones like the one in quotes.

[paraclete]

You are arguing about support of the poor from a mean point of view, personal giving has never filled the void, even Jesus recognised that.

[talaniman]

Sorry JL, I voted for the guy who will raise our taxes and help some poor people, and if it pisses you off and makes your head explode COOL! 8D

Need cheese to go with that whine? Or would you prefer crackers? Your kids and grandkids can pay for that too. 8O

[jlisenbe]

You are arguing about support of the poor from a mean point of view,

Actually, I advocate that people like you should get off their rear ends and help the poor rather than counting on the government to do it with someone else's money. I don't think that's mean. I think you forcing others to do what you seem unwilling to do yourself is mean.

personal giving has never filled the void, even Jesus recognised that.

Where did Jesus recognize that? Even more to the point, where did Jesus ever tell us to force other people to give their money to the gov so we could then go about crowing about how compassionate we are?

[Wondergirl]

Actually, I advocate that people like you should get off their rear ends and help the poor rather than counting on the government to do it with someone else's money. I don't think that's mean. I think you forcing others to do what you seem unwilling to do yourself is mean.

I (and many others, even Christians) gladly pay taxes for the general efforts to help others AND to help individuals and charities that I (and many others, even Christians) choose myself.

Where did Jesus recognize that? Even more to the point, where did Jesus ever tell us to force other people to give their money to the gov so we could then go about crowing about how compassionate we are?

Mark 12:17. Jesus didn't mention crowing in that verse but did mention it in Mark 14:72. :-D

[jlisenbe]

I (and many others, even Christians) gladly pay taxes for the general efforts to help others

So you want your taxes increased? That would make you, I suppose, even MORE glad. Correct? Rather strangely, I only see liberal dems call for increased taxes on others. Do you realize that our government borrowed nearly 10 thousand dollars for every single American, and that was just to fund this year's deficit only? Did you know that? Does that make you uneasy?

AND to help individuals and charities that I (and many others, even Christians) choose myself.

I commend you.

Mark 12:17. Jesus didn't mention crowing in that verse but did mention it in Mark 14:72. :-D

Thank you for referring to a passage in which Jesus did not acknowledge that the government must spend money on charitable causes. I will take that to mean that such a passage does not exist.

[Wondergirl]

So you want your taxes increased? That would make you, I suppose, even MORE glad.

That's what I voted for in November.

Thank you for referring to a passage in which Jesus did not acknowledge that the government must spend money on charitable causes. I will take that to mean that such a passage does not exist.

I was playing with your deductive reasoning processes.

[jlisenbe]

That's what I voted for in November.

You're dragging that wild tale out again?

I was playing with your deductive reasoning processes.

I.e., there is not such a passage.

[Wondergirl]

You're dragging that wild tale out again?

In November the Illinois ballot included a choice to continue the state flat tax or move to a graduated tax. I voted for the latter.

[jlisenbe]

How would that have raised your taxes? Wouldn't your tax rate have remained at it's current 4.95%? Isn't it only the wealthy who would have seen a tax increase?

"The amendment’s passage alone wouldn't have change the rates – it only allowed for the graduated tax structure. The second piece of legislation on this issue signed in 2019 set new rates that would have taken effect on Jan. 1 should the amendment have passed, establishing ladder-style brackets with a top rate of 7.99% on single filers earning more than $750,000 and joint filers earning more than $1 million a year.
Under the proposed structure, anyone making less than $250,000 a year would have continued to pay the current rate of 4.95%, with a slight decrease in the rates on their income up to $100,000. Pritzker has often said this means 97% of Illinois residents would have paid the same or less in state income taxes."

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...tands/2363905/

[Wondergirl]

How would that have raised your taxes? Wouldn't your tax rate have remained at it's current 4.95%? Isn't it only the wealthy who would have seen a tax increase?

Nope!

"What’s a graduated-rate income tax?
Under a graduated-rate income tax, different levels of wages are taxed at different rates. Proponents say higher-income taxpayers should bear a greater tax burden than lower-income taxpayers. Opponents say a graduated tax hurts business owners and job creators and makes them the target of future tax hikes. Raising taxes across the board under a flat tax is more difficult to do, they say."
https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/co...know/42798809/

[jlisenbe]

I know what a graduated tax is. The one you voted for would not have raised your taxes. The article I linked made that perfectly clear. It would certainly seem to be yet another example of a liberal dem voting to raise someone else's taxes. Even your own article makes that clear. "Under tax rates approved by the General Assembly, the tax rate would drop to 4.75% for the first $10,000 of income for single and joint filers. Income between $10,000 and $100,000 would be taxed at 4.9%, and the rate would remain at 4.95% for income between $100,000 and $250,000." So it would, in fact, have marginally LOWERED your taxes. Unless, that is, your income exceeds a quarter mil a year, and I rather don't think that is the case based upon statements you have made in the past.

Perhaps you thought it would have, but that was not the case, and at any rate the measure did not get enough votes to pass.

[Wondergirl]

Unless, that is, your income exceeds a quarter mil a year, and I rather don't think that is the case.

Perhaps you thought it would have, but that was not the case, and at any rate the measure did not get enough votes to pass.

You have absolutely no idea of our income, do you.... and I did vote for the graduated tax.

[tomder55]

Don’t tax you Don’t tax me, Tax that fellow behind the tree.
Progressives like the gimme .....as long as the takee is someone else.

[Athos]

Progressives like the gimme .....as long as the takee is someone else.

The gimme belongs entirely to the wealthy Republicans. The wealthy never have enough. Witness Trump's tax cut giving enormous sums to the rich and big corporations. The wealthy are compassionate 'tho. The scraps from their tables trickle down to Lazarus the poor beggar.

[jlisenbe]

You have absolutely no idea of our income, do you.... and I did vote for the graduated tax.

I know you have said in the past that you live in a modest home on a modest retirement income, and I'm pretty sure a quarter of a million a year does not qualify as "modest". If it does, then we should all be retired librarians in Illinois. I think you voted, as a good liberal dem, to raise taxes on people making over a quarter of a million dollars a year.

BTW, you do realize that you don't have to wait for the state of Illinois to raise your taxes? You can contribute all you want to both your state and federal governments. They will be happy to get the money, and you will be even more "glad" to be paying your taxes!

The gimme belongs entirely to the wealthy Republicans. The wealthy never have enough. Witness Trump's tax cut giving enormous sums to the rich and big corporations. The wealthy are compassionate 'tho. The scraps from their tables trickle down to Lazarus the poor beggar.

Right on cue. A great illustration of what we have been talking about. It's the never ending declaration that the wealthy paying 87% of fed income tax and practically all of the inheritance tax is somehow less than them doing their "fair share", and that the feds deciding to take less than they had been taking somehow amounts to the government giving money to the wealthy.

[Wondergirl]

I know you have said in the past that you live in a modest home on a modest retirement income

My online persona.

[talaniman]

Right on cue. A great illustration of what we have been talking about. It's the never ending declaration that the wealthy paying 87% of fed income tax and practically all of the inheritance tax is somehow less than them doing their "fair share", and that the feds deciding to take less than they had been taking somehow amounts to the government giving money to the wealthy.

Well the feds need money to give poor states like yours don't they? I don't see you giving back that fed money, or showing any understanding of the wealth of a small group that can afford to be taxed trillions and still be some uber rich MOFO's

They got accountants and lawyers and don't need podunks like you protecting them. GO GET 'EM JOE!

[jlisenbe]

WG, you voted to raise taxes on the wealthy. It's just that simple. It's the way it goes with liberal dems. Now I do commend you because you seem to care about poor people, and do use your own resources, it seems, to help them. You do unless that is also part of your "online persona"?