[cbuddyw]

Ok for those that do this for a living I am hoping this is easy. Thx. for any insight/help. Respectfully, please read carefully so as to not assume or draw conclusion w/o facts - this is a unique effort or application (I think).
SETTING = CA, residential, outdoor, 120V/15 amp line.

EXISTING = outdoor dual on/off switches in dual gang surface mount box on brick wall... one switch turns on 2 pillar lights on posts in front yard... 2nd switch operates a regular surface mount grounded dual receptacle (which we have a fountain and sm. water lights plugged into constantly). All 1/2" Sched. 40-80 conduit and watertight fittings. B/W/G 18 G solid wire used. FYI -Electricity for switches and this outlet is down the line from a builder's GFCI outlet (came w/house). The above 2 switches and box were added later and work fine and to code (or so we were told).

CHALLENGE/NEED = based on the above, how do I get constant power to a newly installed dusk/dawn light (14G b/w/g solid wire) extending off roof awning to 4' off house (to light up area in front of home yard & sidewalk near house so security cameras show more than pitch black at night!). Is there a way to get CONSTANT power to this light with existing wiring and without disrupting the operation of the setup described at beginning of this post (with outlet & 2 switches)? (FYI- I cannot pull more wire in conduit as is.) I have tried to draw power off switch box and outlet (diff. wires) and the best I can get is new light to go on ONLY when I turn on the pillar light switch for example. In other words I can operate new light only when light switch is on but not when switches are in off position. Because of this (and from my view, not an electrician!) I am thinking I need to tap into the 'hot' black BEFORE the dual switches and run a separate/new conduit to meet up with the existing receptacle to connect this new hot black to the lamp black (the ground and white should be fine as are already wire nutted to other whites/greens in receptacle box). Does all this make sense OK? Is my logic/though correct or is there an easier, faster, more efficient way please? Sincere thanks for your professional expertise and understanding.

[ma0641]

You are trying to take power off a switched circuit. You need a hot lead before the switch. You really only need 1 new hot wire as you can pigtail from existing neutral and ground. Can't get 1 more wire in the conduit? You mentioned 18 AWG. I hope not.

[cbuddyw]

You are trying to take power off a switched circuit. You need a hot lead before the switch. You really only need 1 new hot wire as you can pigtail from existing neutral and ground. Can't get 1 more wire in the conduit? You mentioned 18 AWG. I hope not.

Thx. My bad - the existing is 12G not 18G -oops. So if I pigtail off the hot black in the switch box (before the switches) and run this black in a conduit by itself to area where gr. And white are I can directly connect this hot black to the new light black (and gr. To gr and white to white of course) this should give me the constant I need to operate dusk/dawn light correctly yes? Or am I not following/understanding your reply? Thx. P.S. No I doubt I can run another black in existing conduit as too tight (3-4 12G) or would have to disconnect all and re-run together right? Seems less of a hassle to just run a new/separate conduit 2-3 ft. around a pillar (so no biggy). Your input please?

[ma0641]

Thx. My bad - the existing is 12G not 18G -oops. So if I pigtail off the hot black in the switch box (before the switches) and run this black in a conduit by itself to area where gr. And white are I can directly connect this hot black to the new light black (and gr. To gr and white to white of course) this should give me the constant I need to operate dusk/dawn light correctly yes? Or am I not following/understanding your reply? Thx. P.S. No I doubt I can run another black in existing conduit as too tight (3-4 12G) or would have to disconnect all and re-run together right? Seems less of a hassle to just run a new/separate conduit 2-3 ft. around a pillar (so no biggy). Your input please?

Assuming all current switches you mention are on the same circuit, the phasing
Is correct and pulling a new hot is fine. You can run off the same neutral and ground. This would be the same as running a piece of 12/3 on a 3 way switch.

[hkstroud]

No I doubt I can run another black in existing conduit as too tight (3-4 12G)

You must be speaking of Romex, not individual strands of wire.

[cbuddyw]

No romex... yes, adding an individual solid 14G black wire (for new hot before switches to blk of new light)... in 1/2" sched. 40 conduit. (and gr to gr and what. To what. Of course).

[cbuddyw]

No romex... yes, adding an individual solid 14G black wire (for new hot before switches to blk of new light)... in 1/2" sched. 40 conduit. (and gr to gr and what. To what. Of course).

Correction... white to white in last post... post composer has auto word correct and changed my orig. abbreviation of "wht" to "what". :(

[hkstroud]

Guess I don't understand routing of wires.

You have a GFI outlet. From that GFI you have black, white and ground wire in 1/2 conduit to a 2 gang switch box. In that 2 gang box you have two single pole switches. From that switch box you have a black, white and ground wires in 1/2 conduit to a pillar lights. You also have black, white and ground in 1/2 conduit to duplex outlet controlled by one of the switches.
From that duplex outlet you want an unswitched power for another light?

I must not have a correct picture of the wire routing because sounds like you should have only 3 wires in each piece of conduit.

[cbuddyw]

Correction... white to white in last post... post composer has auto word correct and changed my orig. abbreviation of "wht" to "what". :(

hkstroud - yes, it sounds like you have it correct... thanks. For the overview. You may be correct as far as only 3 wires in ea. conduit (was doing from memory when I wrote, not actually in front of 'project').

When you indicate sounds like should only have 3 wires, were you mentioning this in relation to should be able to run another wire 14G through the same conduit rather than adding another conduit to get to light? Or were you referencing or thinking of something else?

my concern is 1) in the conduit no doubt the 3 wires are intertwined etc. and trying to push a wire or puller through this would create likely damage to existing wire, no? Or are you suggesting pulling all existing wires in conduit out, adding another black and now re-running all 4 wires together? 2) my conduit 'hugs' a 2x2 porch pillar (not the same as light pillars mentioned in orig. post). I have at least 10-15 ft. to go to get to outlet (from switches) with at least 3-4 90 degree and 2-3 45 degree conduits to run through - plus existing 3 wires, so I am thinking I cannot get anything further through the same conduit.

Any additional thoughts, insight, or guidance please. Much thanks.

[hkstroud]

I agree that is is unlikely you will be able to pull another wire in that conduit with that many turns unless the 90 degree turns are pulling ells. Not because of the wire fill but because of the number of turns. I assume you have a piece of conduit coming from the switch box, going down to the floor and then going around the pillar. Most likely with what you have now, the wire was pulled through the conduit as the conduit was assembled. To add another wire you would probably have to cut the conduit apart and reassemble, pulling the wires as you assemble. The wires are just not flexible enough to pull around that many hard turns.
Frankly I think you should rethink your project. You said this new fixture would be controlled by a photo cell. I would think that you would be using a motion detector (which would include a photo cell). I would also certainly want a switch to manually control this light also. Logic say that the switch should be on the inside of the home. Further unless there is no other way I wouldn't wand a piece of conduit running up the side of my house unless it was absolutely necessary.
Unless the light fixture has a built in motion detector/photo cell you will need a box for that.

newly installed dusk/dawn light (14G b/w/g solid wire) extending off roof awning to 4' off house

What does roof awning mean? Do you have a pitched roof, therefore an attic?

[cbuddyw]

Who knows what roof awning means... ha... yes. Roof is pitched to a point (apex) and the light is extended from that point. Your input is helpful/considered... thanks. Much. You are at a disadvantage in not seeing pics, but either trying to run another wire or running new conduit the visual distraction will be minimal as will be painting to match background etc. All good for now I believe... thanks. Again.

[hkstroud]

I suggest that you go up in the attic, find an uninterrupted power source, run a cable to the security light location. Find an acceptable location for a switch on the inside. These types of switches are usually located by a door but can be anywhere. Fish a cable from the light down the inside of the wall to the switch location. Getting a wire down an interior wall is much easier because there is no insulation.

[cbuddyw]

I suggest that you go up in the attic, find an uninterrupted power source, run a cable to the security light location. Find an acceptable location for a switch on the inside. These types of switches are usually located by a door but can be anywhere. Fish a cable from the light down the inside of the wall to the switch location. Getting a wire down an interior wall is much easier because there is no insulation.

Nice - good idea - thanks.