[paraclete]

I'll wipe my butt as many times as I deem necessary to assure an absence of skid marks in my shorts.

The tree huggers can get stuffed.

We don't need to know that smoothy, but you should consider we are laying waste whole forests so you can wipe your butt, get some perspective, man

[smoothy]

We don't need to know that smoothy, but you should consider we are laying waste whole forests so you can wipe your butt, get some perspective, man

I don't subscribe to the Middle eastern habit of using ones bare hand. Part of becoming civilized means there are better more sanitary ways of wiping ones bum.

The trees we make toilet paper from are not old growth forest... but trees previously planted for the specific purpose of harvesting them... at which time new ones are planted for future harvests.

Huge difference between those.

[paraclete]

I don't subscribe to the Middle eastern habit of using ones bare hand. Part of becoming civilized means there are better more sanitary ways of wiping ones bum.

The trees we make toilet paper from are not old growth forest... but trees previously planted for the specific purpose of harvesting them... at which time new ones are planted for future harvests.

Huge difference between those.

Yes hard wood doesn't make great tiolet paper but you could consider something more civilised like the bidet, perhaps that hasn't reached you yet

[smoothy]

Yes hard wood doesn't make great tiolet paper but you could consider something more civilised like the bidet, perhaps that hasn't reached you yet

You are aware there is a greater global shortage of fresh water than there are farmed trees?

And incidentally....I know what a bidet is...and people that have those in civilized countries still use toilet paper before they get up from the toilet.

[paraclete]

You are aware there is a greater global shortage of fresh water than there are farmed trees?

And incidentally....I know what a bidet is...and people that have those in civilized countries still use toilet paper before they get up from the toilet.

Yes the concept has quite got there has it, and you don't need fresh water you can use recycled water to flush the tiolet, etc, bet that concept hasn't made it either. In parts of this country they use rain water

[smoothy]

Yes the concept has quite got there has it, and you don't need fresh water you can use recycled water to flush the tiolet, etc, bet that concept hasn't made it either. In parts of this country they use rain water

I bet you buy and use toilet paper in your house...

They do everywhere in Europe where the bidet was invented. And I've been in most of the European countries..in fact I lived and worked there for quite a few years. I have an apartment there and stay there a month out of every year.

[paraclete]

I bet you buy and use toilet paper in your house...

They do everywhere in Europe where the bidet was invented. And I've been in most of the European countries..in fact I lived and worked there for quite a few years. I have an apartment there and stay there a month out of every year.

Yes I don't have room to instal a bidet so I'm guilty just as you are, but I did see an interesting piece of plumbing in Pakistan, can't find the equivalent here. If the people of Europe are backward , and stuck in tradition, that is not my concern, I have observed the plumbing in France and I found it very backward, in some cases no different to the third world.

I think it is interesting that Europe should be ahead of the US in plumbing, but then it isn't hard to be ahead of a backwoods outhouse, is it?

[speechlesstx]

Yes the concept has quite got there has it, and you don't need fresh water you can use recycled water to flush the tiolet, etc, bet that concept hasn't made it either. In parts of this country they use rain water

In parts of this country it's illegal to collect rainwater.

[smoothy]

Yes I don't have room to instal a bidet so I'm guilty just as you are, but I did see an interesting piece of plumbing in Pakistan, can't find the equivalent here. If the people of Europe are backward , and stuck in tradition, that is not my concern, I have observed the plumbing in France and I found it very backward, in some cases no different to the third world.

I think it is interesting that Europe should be ahead of the US in plumbing, but then it isn't hard to be ahead of a backwoods outhouse, is it?

Actually Europe isn't ahead of us in plumbing... or electrical wiring.

I have more electrical capacity in my 150 square foot shed in Virginia than my entire 3 bedroom apartment in Italy has. I'm serious it only has a 15 amp 220v main breaker. Run the oven, dishwasher and the tv at the same time and it trips.

I've seen European Pluming... it looks like American plumbing bid back in the 1940's and 1950's.

I also much preffer American toilets to European ones... and particularly British ones... good lord those are aweful. If you've spent any time in the UK you know why I say that.

I think its obvious you've never been to the USA before.

My house is 50 years old and its nothing like you think is the norm for the USA.

[paraclete]

Actually Europe isn't ahead of us in plumbing... or electrical wiring.

I have more electrical capacity in my 150 square foot shed in Virginia than my entire 3 bedroom apartment in Italy has. I'm serious it only has a 15 amp 220v main breaker. Run the oven, dishwasher and the tv at the same time and it trips.

I've seen European Pluming... it looks like American plumbing bid back in the 1940's and 1950's.

I also much preffer American toilets to European ones... and particularly British ones... good lord those are aweful. If you've spent any time in the UK you know why I say that.

I think its obvious you've never been to the USA before.

My house is 50 years old and its nothing like you think is the norm for the USA.

Yes I have been to the UK, some parts of it are a little backward and in fact I have seen that garbage dump they call Italy, not surprised Musolini didn't upgrade the electrical system, too many palms to grease. I have passed through the USA and that's the way I like it, just passing through

Just for the record from the pictures I see there are two types of houses in the US, somewhat older clapboard houses and more modern brick veneer constructions, either way row upon row of them. I live in a fifty year old house too but the plumbing is first world, the heating is first world, The power works 24/7, the street outside is a broad tree lined avenue with a park within walking distance but that wasn't where I was brought up. Let's say I graduated. I have known the days of outhouses and chip heaters to get a hot bath but no one lives like that today

[speechlesstx]

Tesla is a fringe market for the uber:rich .Tesla delivered 4,750 units in the first quarter and 5,150 units in the last quarter woooohoooo!
That's if the owners survive the flambé
Second Tesla Model S fire ignites safety concerns - Chicago Tribune

Make that a third.

UPDATE 5-Tesla reports third fire involving Model S electric car | Reuters

[tomder55]

I think climate change, immigration reform are both sort of legacy issues,” Blumenthal said. “The measure of his presidency will be whether he has left changes in law and regulation, but also a heightened awareness, which I think he has been doing.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-...genda-crumbles

This is the same bs they used when the Goracle's book was discredited and the phony climate scientists fudged data. 'yeah but we increased awareness' .

Interesting that the Hill reports that the only chance for the emperor to have a 2nd term legacy is by executive fiat.

[talaniman]

Make that a third.

UPDATE 5-Tesla reports third fire involving Model S electric car | Reuters

Remember the Pinto?

Obama grasps for climate legacy as second-term agenda crumbles | TheHill

This is the same bs they used when the Goracle's book was discredited and the phony climate scientists fudged data. 'yeah but we increased awareness' .

Interesting that the Hill reports that the only chance for the emperor to have a 2nd term legacy is by executive fiat.

You say executive fiat, I say doing the job charged to them. That's what an executive is supposed to do with the agencies they oversee. You would rather have the Cheney energy policy right? Give the agency dope and alcohol and show 'em where to sign the contracts the companies write.

[tomder55]

Wind turbines killed at least 600,000 bats in the United States in 2012... and that's a conservative estimate .The higher estimate is 900,000.
Why aren't the enviro-wackos outraged ?

US Wind Turbines Kill Over 600,000 Bats A Year (And Plenty Of Birds Too) - International Science Times

[paraclete]

Why should they be enraged, bats spread disease, obviously you don't have Hendra virus in the US

[tomder55]

Bats consume bugs that spread disease like mosquitoes . What do you think harms more humans... Hendra virus or Malaria ,Dengue fever and West Nile Virus ?

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

Wind turbines killed at least 600,000 bats in the United States in 2012...

Why aren't the enviro-wackos outraged ?

I AM outraged. Global warming will kill MILLIONS of PEOPLE and then a few MILLION more. You're worried about a few bats.

excon

[tomder55]

Black Death killed 75 million people in the mid-14th century ;about 1/3 of the population of Europe was wiped out . The reason it was so devastating was because of the food shortages during the "Little Ice Age " which began in the early 14th century and ended unofficially in the late 19th century ,although the current Warm Period began around 1750 or nearly 100 years before the modern rise in atmospheric CO2 concentration .

There was also a great famine that befell Europe at the beginning of the Little Ice age that killed millions and led to political disruption .It got so bad that some European resorted to cannibalism .
Contrast that to the Medieval Warming period (MWP) .From the ninth through the thirteenth centuries, farming spread into northern portions of Russia. In the Far East, Chinese and Japanese farmers migrated north into Manchuria, the Amur Valley and northern Japan. The Vikings founded colonies in Iceland and Greenland, then actually green. Scandinavian seafarers discovered "Vinland" along the East Coast of North America. It was a time of growth .By the late 1200s expansion in agriculture had transformed the landscape into an economy filled with merchants, vibrant towns and great fairs. Crop failures became less frequent.
Throughout the continent, economic activity blossomed. Europe prospered again, cathedrals were built and society advanced until the 14th century.

The trouble with the analysis today is that for some reason we think climate is constant and measured soley in our time frame. But climate change happens .

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

The trouble with the analysis today is that for some reason we think climate is constant and measured soley in our time frame.

The trouble with right wing analysis, is it's based on political ideology and NOT science. When science is mentioned, your ideology is to diss that too.I

I can't break through that mindset. But, I CAN, and WOULD move forward with climate control legislation in SPITE of your mindset, and I'd do it PRONTO.

Oh, I KNOW what's BEHIND your ideology. It's FEAR of the destruction of your beloved oil and gas industry... So, it's not really a save my way of life philosophy. It's a save the Koch brothers way of life philosophy.

But, MY solution wouldn't destroy that industry any more than running out of fossil fuel will do all by itself. What I would do, is create an industry that will protect our way of life, against the ABSOLUTE reality that we're gonna run OUT of fossil fuel.

So, solving THAT problem will have the added benefit of solving man made climate change, IF it IS man made. And if it ISN'T man made, who's gonna care?

excon

[tomder55]

so then it wouldn't involve hundreds of thousands windmill blighting the landscape and wacking any flying creature .