[Wondergirl]

Whatever triggered him into action should be the real concern.

But that won't make a hill-of-beans difference in preventing the next shooting.

[tomder55]

Yup .you certainly can't blame the movie . 1949 James Cagney played as bad a bad guy as there ever was in White Heat. He literally went out in a ' blaze of glory ' in a shoot out . As he drew his last breath he shouted... "Made it, Ma! Top of the world!" He portrayed a psycho.
James Cagney in White Heat - Top of the World - YouTube.

Yet no one used the movie as an excuse to shoot up a theater ,or a school . It was not the availabilty of guns that was the deterent back then. It was the character of the civil society that was the deterent .

[paraclete]

Yup .you certainly can't blame the movie . 1949 James Cagney played as bad a bad guy as there ever was in White Heat. He literally went out in a ' blaze of glory ' in a shoot out . As he drew his last breath he shouted .... "Made it, Ma! Top of the world!" He portayed a psycho.
James Cagney in White Heat - Top of the World - YouTube.

Yet no one used the movie as an excuse to shoot up a theater ,or a school . It was not the availabilty of guns that was the deterent back then. It was the character of the civil society that was the deterent .

What you fail to recognise Tom is that cinematic"" ärt"" has changed a great deal since 1949, they have 3D which is mind altering for some and the use of graphics and the score shifts reality for the viewer. There are minds, however immature, that can be influenced to play out the scenario, for them it has becomes reality, if you couple this with drugs, who knows what you get, but a psycho like Holmes is a real possibility.

So to stop this sort of thing two things need to change, first; access to the psychotic depicition of depravity in any form and the glorification of these characterisations and two; access to guns and dangerous substances and yes, petrol should not be sold in containers any more than fertelizer should be sold for non agricultural purposes or gelignite sold to someone off the street or guns made available indiscrinimately. Business for business sake is not a good idea or liberty because it ignores the greater good, which is the protection of the citizens\

And as to the character of civil society, it has degenerated markedly since 1949 and to a stage those who framed your Constitution could not have contemplated. Personally I don't think they had regard for much beyond their own lifetime and circumstance

[tomder55]

Let me know when you achieve that sanitized life in a bubble you seek.

[earl237]

I've heard that Switzerland has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world and violent crime is nearly unheard of. Gun control is only one factor however, I've heard that their mandatory military service teaches people discipline and respect for their country and fellow people, maybe America should look to them for ideas on how to prevent violence and teach morals in young people.

[paraclete]

I've heard that Switzerland has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world and violent crime is nearly unheard of. Gun control is only one factor however, I've heard that their mandatory military service teaches people discipline and respect for their country and fellow people, maybe America should look to them for ideas on how to prevent violence and teach morals in young people.

Agree but you see that is the sanitised society that Tom and his ilk can't abide, they see it as lacking freedom. America long ago decided that it would go its own way in many respects and now when it hasn't worked out well they don't want to change. Stupid pride stops them

[tomder55]

Or you could argue that an armed society is a polite one. Glad you like the Swiss model . The Swiss Confederation developed only a weak central government, leaving most authority in the hands of the cantons or lower levels of government. That was one thing the founders understood ,but we moved away from .

[paraclete]

or you could argue that an armed society is a polite one. Glad you like the Swiss model . The Swiss Confederation developed only a weak central government, leaving most authority in the hands of the cantons or lower levels of government. That was one thing the founders understood ,but we moved away from .

Where do you get this B/S? From the NRA? the Swiss society is a polite one not because it is armed but because it has discipline. The Swiss society exists as it does because large parts of the country are cut off for months in winter or used to be, necessity. The US is an armed society and it is not a polite one, in fact the opposite is true, more people incarcarated, more murders and violent behaviour. Do you think there is a correlation between gun ownership and violence? Look at the statistics. In our case, reduced gun ownership, reduced violence, direct correlation and I bet it works the same way in reverse for you

[tomder55]

Yeah I'm making it up . The Swiss and Israel both have high legal gun ownership and low murder rates . Chicago and other US cities have strict gun control and high murder rates. London had a relatively low murder rate that began to rise as the Brits made tougher gun control laws .

Gun control is pretty much a settled issue here. President Obama will not make it a political issue. Why ? Well the left says the NRA is so strong a lobby . But the NRA could NOT become a powerful lobby if they did not represent the vast majority opinion in the country.

[talaniman]

While most people believe in the 2nd amendment, we can make some common sense changes to keep them out of the hands of the criminals, to keep them out of the wrong hands, like background checks, waiting periods, registration, and complete bans on assault rifles and clips that can make shooting a hundred people in a second possible. Banning the sale of cop killer ammo. And ban reselling guns without a dealer license. How about calling a cop for the buyers who buy heavy rifles by the case?

We can have our rights without the danger to the public by some loony nut case can't we? Or drug dealers? Like I say, common sense.

[tomder55]

background checks, waiting periods, registration, and complete bans on assault rifles and clips that can make shooting a hundred people in a second possible. Banning the sale of cop killer ammo. And ban reselling guns without a dealer license. How about calling a cop for the buyers who buy heavy rifles by the case?

With the exception of the outright ban on "assault rifles " ,I could go along with all the other provisions . The founders added the militia clause for a reason ,and that was for the states having the power to 'regulate' the gun market. I for one think internet purchases of ammo should be looked at ;and no one needs 100 round clips for personal defense or hunting .

But ,none of that would've stopped this miscreant from what he did . So looking at gun laws as a panacea is wistful .

[talaniman]

I doubt the founders could have imagined a rifle that shot a hundred times, but you are correct I think when you say you can't stop a criminal from doing what he intends to do. Not with a law. Evil finds a way.

[speechlesstx]

I think it appropriate to quote here that great philosopher, Ice-T:

Yeah, it's legal in the United States. It's part of our Constitution. You know, the right to bear arms is because that's the last form of defense against tyranny.

[Wondergirl]

Tyranny is such a problem in this country. So glad I have a bunch of untrained, unregulated gun owners protecting me from it.

[NeedKarma]

That'll be an interesting moment in your history when american citizens start shooting at government employees. Just like in some African countries.

[tomder55]

Yeah you are surrounded by them in a city with one of the toughest gun laws in th nation. Good thing they are regulated in Chi-town.

[tomder55]

That'll be an interesting moment in your history when american citizens start shooting at government employees. Just like in some African countries.

Yeah that could never happen in Canada
http://news.sympatico.ctvnews.ca/can...hours/7abffc18

[NeedKarma]

Yeah that could never happen in Canada
Toronto police probe three shootings in 24 hours | Sympatico.ca News

That has nothing at all to do with what I wrote. Nice try though.

[speechlesstx]

So you guys don't understand the concept of deterrence.

[talaniman]

Evil doesn't care about deterence. Deterence only works on those with a conscious.