[smoothy]

I think an act of rendition is in order for this scumbag. Its been done before... why don't they do it again.

[excon]

It appears that this leak/disclosure is doing some GOOD. Whaddya know about that?

No it isn't. The damage this will do to the American diplomatic efforts worldwide will take years to repair.

Hello again, tom:

I don't know how this wound up on another thread... Nonetheless, Iran sure doesn't like the disclosure. That's good for the world, no?

In my view, the fallout from the leak has not been fully realized yet. The jury is still out.

By the way, in regards to the first leak, we all heard the screeching about blood on his hands... But, to date, there hasn't been ONE death attributed to the first leak... Whadya know about that?

excon

[tomder55]

What the leaks show about Iran is what has been known for years. What it shows about the US handling of Iran confirms my worse fears... that the US is well aware of the threat they pose ,and still vascilates in it's response. The major story coming out of this is that the leaks have shown the President and Evita to be unable to protect US secrets or preserve allies from embarrassment.

We are the laughingstock of the world, an impotent superpower whose response to those who aid our enemies is to write a letter asking them not to do it.

Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion: Wikileaks Completes Obama's Transformation Into Jimmy Carter
The Asian Times correctly identifies the dangers of these leaks ;that North Korea, Iran and China will either successfully challenge the US because of it's apparent weakness ,or miscalculate.

Should a credible argument be made that he has abandoned an ally such as South Korea, Obama would find it difficult to either avoid responding harshly to Iran or stop Israel from attacking. Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia would likely add their weight to that of the Jewish state, as they were revealed to have done in the past by the WikiLeaks and other reports.

This still outlines only the start of a potential ripple effect. The situation of several other American allies is already so bad that they hardly even need a Korean paradigm to despair. Lebanon's Prime Minister Saad Hariri, for example, just went hat-in-hand to Tehran [4] and started a diatribe against Israel, [5] in an apparent sign that he is ready to toe the Iranian line if that is what it will take to ensure his survival.

In Iraq, the Western-backed Iyad Allawi was elbowed out of forming a government by his Iran-backed Shi'ite rivals despite winning the popular election earlier this year. In Afghanistan, an already-alienated President Hamid Karzai [6] is looking on as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization effort to prop him up continues. [7] However as the counter-insurgence strategy employed by the American-led coalition continues to draw fire, [8] what happened to South Vietnam looms over him in the slightly more distant future. In Yemen, too, the government is getting desperate against al-Qaeda militants and Iran-backed Houtini rebels, and, according to some reports, is considering playing both sides.

All this suggests that the current patient and diplomatic strategy Obama is pursuing does not bode well for American interests in Asia. War, moreover, is unlikely to be a good substitute for a better and clearer vision, and by itself is unlikely to bring anything positive to the region. What is needed from the White House is strong leadership, and if it does not materialize, the effects will likely be disastrous.

Asia Times Online :: Korea News and Korean Business and Economy, Pyongyang News

The nation that looks good is Israel . They have been upfront about the Iranian threat and everything they have said has panned out . They are also the only nation that has taken concrete action against the 12'ers . Iranian nuclear scientists now have to look over their shoulders . There has been 'mysterious 'explosions at their facilities ,and cyber attacks against their systems .
At this point the Israeli's must be wondering who needs to prop up whom?

[excon]

The major story coming out of this is that the leaks have shown the President and Evita to be unable to protect US secrets or preserve allies from embarassment.

Hello tom:

Oh, I understand the right wing's outrage. What I DON'T understand is the right wing's total MISUNDERSTANDING of the Constitution, and the laws of our land... Ok, YES I do. You think the Bill of Rights skipped the First Amendment, and stopped at the Second...

Just what, specifically, could Obama or Evita have DONE to prevent this leak? Send a drone after him? Render him, like smoothy says? Put him in Gitmo?? Those ARE viable options - if that pesky Constitution didn't get in the way.

excon

[tomder55]

How is it that Jullian Assange has
1st Amendment protection ? Espionage is espionage and against the law... Treason is also against the law and the Constitution . PFC Mattingly should be facing charges for both under both military tribunal and civilian court.

If we cannot get extradition against Assange I would be in favor of a rendition. Why not ? The Israelis are applauded for using it against Adolf Eichmann .

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

How is it that Jullian Assange has 1st Amendment protection ?

When what he published became available to readers in the United States. The question is quite right wing of you.

Espionage is espionage and against the law .....Treason is also against the law and the Constitution .

You want to CHARGE him under our law, yet you don't want to give him the PROTECTION of the law. That's quite right wing of you.

If we cannot get extradition against Assange I would be in favor of a rendition. Why not ? The Israelis are applauded for using it against Adolf Eichmann .

That's QUITE right wing of you, and of course, UTTERLY against the right wingers beloved Constitution.

excon

[tomder55]

Hello again, tom:When what he published became available to readers in the United States. The question is quite right wing of you.You want to CHARGE him under our law, yet you don't want to give him the PROTECTION of the law. excon

The Espionage Act of 1917 was a United States federal law passed on June 15, 1917, shortly after the U.S. entry into World War I, during the First Red Scare.[1]

It prohibited any attempt to interfere with military operations, support America's enemies during wartime, to promote insubordination in the military, or interfere with military recruitment. In 1919, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously ruled in Schenck v. United States that the act did not violate the free speech rights of those convicted under its provisions.
Espionage Act of 1917 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is not perfect because the law has not been updated for 21st Century realities . But there is a law in place that was definitely violated .
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112904326.html

[smoothy]

The Espionage Act of 1917 was a United States federal law passed on June 15, 1917, shortly after the U.S. entry into World War I, during the First Red Scare.[1]

It prohibited any attempt to interfere with military operations, support America's enemies during wartime, to promote insubordination in the military, or interfere with military recruitment. In 1919, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously ruled in Schenck v. United States that the act did not violate the free speech rights of those convicted under its provisions.
Espionage Act of 1917 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Um.. Tom... EVERYBODY on Earth has U S Constitutional Protections except George Bush, and conservatives... in the eyes of the left.

[excon]

The Espionage Act of 1917 was a United States federal law passed on June 15, 1917, shortly after the U.S. entry into World War I, during the First Red Scare.

Hello again, tom:

There's another way to have done this... Personally, I GUARD my information. I don't belong to Facebook. I pay in cash. I don't tweet. I cleanse my computer regularly. I have a post office box... I do much more than that, but in short, I do EVERYTHING I can to GUARD my data. It's common wisdom, in this internet age, that IF it's on a hard drive, it CAN be stolen. If you're the government, it's a slam dunk that it WILL be STOLEN. It COULD have been encrypted, or sent snail mail. It wasn't. I don't know WHY they didn't do that.

It's yet another intelligence failure. It boggles my mind. It's like the WMD's our intelligence agency's SAID were there, but weren't. I STILL don't know how they did THAT. But, to leave your data vulnerable to theft, and then snivel about it being stolen, is... Well, it's STUPID. I'm reminded of some barn somewhere with its door open.

excon

[tomder55]

Yes it is an intel failure of monumental proportions born out of the 9-11 Commission Report and general government incompetence.

One of the big criticisms about the intel agencies was the lack of
Sharing info.between the various intel agencies . To address this problem a decision was made to make the Secret Internet Protocol Router Network (SIPRNET) the clearing house of secured information .

The problem is that it was also opened up to a multitude of Executive Branch
Personel .

I heard retiring Congress man Peter Hoekstra mention yesterday that up to 500,000 Executive Dept employees have security access
To the system.

Allegedly pfc Mattingly ,given his clearance ,was able to spend a lot of time unsupervised surfing SIPRNET while stationed in Baghdad .These text docs are small and compressible .

The gvt. Announced it will begin limiting access again... that barn door analogy is right on.

Not sure of the reliability of how he downloaded ,but rumor has it he erased a Lady Gaga CD or filled a few flash drives with the hundreds of thousands of docs .

It is still treason and espionage and should be treated as such. Many villians prey on the stupid .

[NeedKarma]

but rumor has it he erased a Lady Gaga CD

You can't erase a commercial CD.

Many villians prey on the stupid .

Sounds like the corporations that organized the Tea Party.

[tomder55]

Did I say it was commercial ? The soldiers share all types of downloads .It could've been a copy on an erasable CD . I don't know... I heard it as a rumor and did not confirm it.


Edit : in his own words :
“I would come in with music on a CD-RW labeled with something like 'Lady Gaga,' erase the music then write a compressed split file,” he wrote. “No one suspected a thing and, odds are, they never will."
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/leak

[excon]

Allegedly pfc Mattingly ,given his clearance ,was able to spend alot of time unsupervised surfing SIPRNET.... It is still treason and espionage and should be treated as such.

Hello again, tom:

I don't disagree. Manning is a crook. Assange isn't - certainly no more than the NY Times is. Are you guilty of espionage because you're the FIRST one to publish secret material, but the people who do it after you aren't?? Nahhh. That's not the way it works.

excon

[tomder55]

Maybe... I say bring him in ;charge him ,and let the justice system play out. Do I think the Slimes was guilty of similar activities in this, and in cases like the 'Pentagon Papers ' . Yes I do.


But assuming that the Holder Justice Dept is more willing to see Wikileaks as legit journalism ;even Holder has contrasted WikiLeaks with traditional news organisations in that the Slimes contacted the government and cooperated in redactions .

Assange assumes the role of sole editor in determining what the public has a right to know ;regardless of how many lives he puts in danger .

There is also a question of theft of government property . He had a direct hand in the Mattingly activities and at a minimum collaborated, aided and abetted, or conspired in the theft.

[NeedKarma]

regardless of how many lives he puts in danger

How so? What lives are these?

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell has said previously that there was no evidence that anyone had been killed because of the leaks. Sunday, another Pentagon official told McClatchy that the military still has no evidence that the leaks have led to any deaths.

[tomder55]

So someone has to be killed first before the threat is realized ? The truth is that there are many informants on the run in AfPakia over the spring releases .

[excon]

Do I think the Slimes was guilty of simular activities in this, and in cases like the 'Pentagon Papers ' . Yes I do.

Hello again, tom:

Yeah, for authoritarian minds, those who expose secrets are far more hated than those in power who committed the heinous acts that were exposed.

excon

[NeedKarma]

Hello again, tom:

Yeah, for authoritarian minds, those who expose secrets are far more hated than those in power who commit the heinous acts that were exposed.

excon

Greenie for you.

[tomder55]

So national security should have no consideration ? I'll believe Jullian Assange is a legit journalist and not simply an enemy of the country when he penetrates the secret communications of AQ and publishes them . In fact... I dare him!

[excon]

So national security should have no consideration ?

Hello again, tom:

I'm all for keeping secret THAT which will HARM my country... In fact, I STILL have my secret clearance, and I have NEVER divulged what I know, nor will I EVER. However, I'm all for exposing THAT which embarrasses those in power.

excon