[Wondergirl]

You can't Erect a Christmas Tree or Mention Christmas in schools....but Muslims are allowed to do anything they want, anywhere they want. I want to see how Muslims are granted rights Christians don't have in the Constitution. Since I can't find it myself can you please point it out.

I see you changed this from what I first read.

What rights are Muslims granted that Christians don't have? There are four Christian churches (built on property legally purchased) within easy walking distance of my house and only one madrassa (built on property legally purchased). The only mosque in the area (built on property legally purchased) is in the next suburb over.

[smoothy]

I see you changed this from what I first read.

What rights are Muslims granted that Christians don't have? There are four Christian churches (built on property legally purchased) within easy walking distance of my house and only one madrassa (built on property legally purchased). The only mosque in the area (built on property legally purchased) is in the next suburb over.

Yeah.. you may have read it the moment I posted it but I edited it because I saw something I didn't like the wording spelling etc.

And every one of those when they were built had to follow the same rules, laws and restrictions that any other business would have to follow... including local review by the residents. And you didn't answer any question with that response. There are far more christians in this nation than Muslims... its not surprising there are more churches.

How many people live in that part of Manhattan, what "Community" are they claiming to serve. That's in the middle of a Business district... not a residential zone.

Democrats have fought to keep any symbol of Chirstian Observance of Chrisrtmas and easter as two examples out of schools and public places... yet they are defending the construction of a Memorial to Muslim Terrorists near a site where thousands of Americans, mostly NON-Muslim were Killed at the hands of Islamic terrorists.

[Wondergirl]

How many people live in that part of Manhattan, what "Community" are they claiming to serve. That's in the middle of a Business district... not a residential zone.

It will be a business, not a residence.

Democrats have fought to keep any symbol of Chirstian Observance of Chrisrtmas and easter as two examples out of schools and public places... yet they are defending the construction of a Memorial to Muslim Terrorists near a site where thousands of Americans, mostly NON-Muslim were Killed at the hands of Islamic terrorists.

I'm not Democrat; I'm a Republican and a Christian who believes Christian observances have no business in public schools and public places. Thus, I sent both of my children to parochial schools.

You certainly know how to ratchet things up by calling it a "Memorial to Muslim Terrorists"!

[tomder55]

There is one politician running here who says he will use eminent domain to declare the building public property ;part of the 9-11 memorial .

Once it is public property I'm sure the Dems will then invoke the establishment clause ,as is their typical won't, to prevent the use of public property for religious purposes... right ?

I don't endorse that strategery because I don't approve of SCOTUS' definition of the 'Taking Clause' .But ;in this case at least the property would be reserved for public use and not for private renovation like what is happening all over the country after the Kelo decision.

[excon]

But ;in this case at least the property would be reserved for public use and not for private renovation

Hello again, tom:

No, it wouldn't. Eminent domain cannot be used to mask religious discrimination. That's exactly what this will be. Do you think everybody will just go along and wink at each other? Dude! Like it or not, people ARE allowed to practice their religion in this country, freely. It's a RIGHT that cannot be taken away.

What blows me away, is that I'm arguing this with someone who has STAUNCHLY stood by this individuals RIGHT to build, but is willing to cave on it now... Wow! What kind of RIGHT'S do you think we have in this country if one stinkin politician or city can deny them to you??

I ask you again, would you be so cavalier about your gun rights?

I suggest you did NOT support his right to build, and you were LOOKING for reasons to stop it. It appears that you do not understand what, primarily, is the BASIS for this country's founding. Oh, you'll protest and say you do, but your post is evidence that you do not.

excon

[smoothy]

It will be a business, not a residence.

I'm not Democrat; I'm a Republican and a Christian who believes Christian observances have no business in public schools and public places. Thus, I sent both of my children to parochial schools.

You certainly know how to ratchet things up by calling it a "Memorial to Muslim Terrorists"!

So a Mosque supports the Business Community just how. A Mosque is primarily a place a worship for a non-existant residential community.

It IS a memorial to Muslim Terrorists... there is no other possible explanation for why a Mosque HAS to go that close to ground Zero were there is essentually NO residents in the general area.

Is it being funded exclusively by Manhattan Muslims in THAT area? Nope... who is funding it? Don't know? Ever wonder WHY that's a great secret... The Imam is ON a trip to the middle east to get money for it from supporters of Radical Islam. Thus its Being built by the very same people who anyone who watched TV after 9/11 that were celibrating the Great Victory of the Terrorists. Are you aware its been a doctrine in Islam to build a Mosque at the site of victories over Christians for the last 1300 years?

And incidentally I do question if you really are a republican... and surprised you would pay to send your kids to a parochial school but deny others who were not catholic the right to celibrate Christian holidays with their friends.

And yes... in many places Protestants who surprise, surprise are also Christian are not allowed the possibility of enrolling their kids in a Catholic school at any price, and that is the only alternative to public school for many people. I grew up in such an area.

[smoothy]

Hello again, tom:

No, it wouldn't. Eminent domain cannot be used to mask religious discrimination. That's exactly what this will be. Do you think everybody will just go along and wink at each other? Dude! Like it or not, people ARE allowed to practice their religion in this country, freely. It's a RIGHT that cannot be taken away.

What blows me away, is that I'm arguing this with someone who has STAUNCHLY stood by this individuals RIGHT to build, but is willing to cave on it now... Wow! What kind of RIGHT'S do you think we have in this country if one stinkin politician or city can deny them to you???

I ask you again, would you be so cavalier about your gun rights?

I suggest you did NOT support his right to build, and you were LOOKING for reasons to stop it. It appears that you do not understand what, primarily, is the BASIS for this country's founding. Oh, you'll protest and say you do, but your post is evidence that you do not.

excon

Dodging the question are we... exactly where does a Muslim Imam with secret foreign funding Have a RIGHT to build anything anyplace he wants?

I am American Born citizen and I don't have that right... and neither do you. Otherwize Zoneing laws... local ordinaces homeowners associations, etc... would all not exist and would have been declaired unconstitutional... and Porn shops would exist next to public schools and so would halfway houses for drug abusers.

[tomder55]

What blows me away, is that I'm arguing this with someone who has STAUNCHLY stood by this individuals RIGHT to build, but is willing to cave on it now

What part of I don't endorse that strategery don't you understand ?

I'm just amused at the lefts sudden appreciation of the 'free exercise clause'.

suggest you did NOT support his right to build, and you were LOOKING for reasons to stop it. It appears that you do not understand what, primarily, is the BASIS for this country's founding. Oh, you'll protest and say you do, but your post is evidence that you do not.

I ,like Pelosi think this is a zoning issue . I like Howard Dean and Harry Reid think that there is more to this issue than the right to build because of the free exercise clause. I like Governor Patterson think it is reasonable to compromise on this issue .

[Synnen]

How many people live in that part of Manhattan, what "Community" are they claiming to serve. Thats in the middle of a Business district....not a residential zone.

Democrats have fought to keep any symbol of Chirstian Observance of Chrisrtmas and easter as two examples out of schools and public places....yet they are defending the construction of a Memorial to Muslim Terrorists near a site where thousands of Americans, mostly NON-Muslim were Killed at the hands of Islamic terrorists.

How many times do we have to emphasize that a church is NOT a memorial to terrorism?

You are blaming an entire RELIGION for the actions of what? 10-20 people?

Let's ban Roman Catholicism because a bunch of priests molested children! (It's the same thing you're doing, Smoothy!)

And how many CHURCHES are within that same area? I know of at least 3 within the SAME DISTANCE as the proposed Mosque. There are at least SIX within a 10 block area. What "communities" are THEY serving, Smoothy? They're in the middle of a business district too.

All I see here is blocking freedom of religion and discrimination against an entire religion for the actions of a few extremists. That's like blaming every German for the Nazis, or every American for the bomb at Hiroshima.

Sounds to me like you can't and won't see that Islam is a religion of peace, and that the terrorists are NOT what every Muslim out there is like.

And if you want to talk about religion trying to push government around, let's talk about DOMA, and about the Pledge of Allegiance, and about "In God We Trust" on our money.

[Wondergirl]

And incidently I do question if you really are a republican....and suprised you would pay to send your kids to a parochial school but deny others who were not catholic the right to celibrate Christian holidays with their friends.

I am a registered Republican (have been since I could register to vote) living in an Illinois county that is Republican and am also Missouri-Synod Lutheran minister's daughter who was a Lutheran elementary school teacher.

I don't understand your sentence about Catholics and the right to "celibrate" Christian holidays.

[smoothy]

How many times do we have to emphasize that a church is NOT a memorial to terrorism?

You are blaming an entire RELIGION for the actions of what? 10-20 people?

Let's ban Roman Catholicism because a bunch of priests molested children! (It's the same thing you're doing, Smoothy!)

And how many CHURCHES are within that same area? I know of at least 3 within the SAME DISTANCE as the proposed Mosque. There are at least SIX within a 10 block area. What "communities" are THEY serving, Smoothy? They're in the middle of a business district too.

All I see here is blocking freedom of religion and discrimination against an entire religion for the actions of a few extremists. That's like blaming every German for the Nazis, or every American for the bomb at Hiroshima.

Sounds to me like you can't and won't see that Islam is a religion of peace, and that the terrorists are NOT what every Muslim out there is like.

And if you want to talk about religion trying to push government around, let's talk about DOMA, and about the Pledge of Allegiance, and about "In God We Trust" on our money.

It IS a memorial to terrorists. Where is the "Underserved" muslim Community in an area of Manhattan with NO residential Apartments... thus no residents to serve.

WHY is it so important to put a Mosque right there under so much protest if their intent isn't to get in the face of most americans to rub 9/11 in. Over 70% of the American Population sees that for what it is... a Memorial to the Terrorists... and an anti-american swipe just like the terrorists did on 9/11.

I certain hope that it gets burned down or blown up if its ever allowed to be built there, nope I won't be the one to do it... but there are millions in line that will.. I don't care if its across town... just not right there. I don't support other Mosques getting torched... but for that one particular one ever gets built AND torched... I'm throwing a Bar-B-Que party in honor of it.

ANd your analogy isn't correct. IF the Priest that molested the kids set up a house with a sign across the street from the home of one of his victims saying "what a sweet butt he has"... now that's a better analogy.

Incidentally I'm a protestant and don't support Catholic Docterine... and certainy didn't support their handling of that matter.

[excon]

What part of I don't endorse that strategery don't you understand ?

Hello again, tom:

Let's not kid ourselves. You don't endorse it because you don't endorse eminent domain - not because you thought it wouldn't work. You though it would work, all right - hence, your willingness to cave.

If you BELIEVE in the First Amendment, there's no caving, there's no but's, and there's no lists.

excon

[tomder55]

Synn .
Unfortunately history is not on your side. Political Islam has always constructed Mosques on the sites of their victories.
In Cordoba the Califate built a Mosque on a razed Cathedral . In Jerusalem they built one on the ruins of the Temple .The Mosque of Amr (Mosque of Amr ibn al-As) was built to commemorate the conquest of Egypt.

There is no coincidence in the siting of this proposed Mosque .To the jihadists the WTC was the symbol of American economic might. To them it was a secular cathedral . KSM and his nephew Ramsi Yousef made it their decade long mission to bring them down.

The symbolism of a mosque towering over the site will certainly not be lost in the Ummah. Too bad PC 'head in the sand' politicians like Mayor Bloomberg and President Obama cannot make the distinction between their sudden discovery of an 'absolute' right to the free exercise of religion (they never seemed concerned about it before ) ;and the real question of if it SHOULD be built .

[Wondergirl]

From a cuny.edu site --

From its earliest days of European settlement, when members of the Dutch West India Company landed on the southern tip of the island of Manahata, there were Muslims in New Amsterdam. As the seventeenth century wore on into the eighteenth, African slaves and sailors who practiced the Muslim faith were among many who helped to transform a tiny commercial outpost into the growing port city of New York.

[Catsmine]

How many times do we have to emphasize that a church is NOT a memorial to terrorism?

A church is not. This church may well be. The entire project still is titled "The Cordoba Initiative." Newt was a little over the top calling it a deliberate insult to the west, but the name is significant. Victor Davis Hansen calls it "cynically brilliant."

Victor Davis Hanson: The Cynical Brilliance of Imam Rauf - There are thousands of sites where...

[tomder55]

Well done VDH !

[tomder55]

from a cuny.edu site --

From its earliest days of European settlement, when members of the Dutch West India Company landed on the southern tip of the island of Manahata, there were Muslims in New Amsterdam. As the seventeenth century wore on into the eighteenth, African slaves and sailors who practiced the Muslim faith were among many who helped to transform a tiny commercial outpost into the growing port city of New York.

NYC already has over 200 registed Mosques . Lower Manhattan already has a few .

[Wondergirl]

Apparently, the damaged building that will be torn down, a four-story Burlington Coat Factory, is already being used as a mosque by local Muslims. (That building, along with others in the area, was damaged on 9/11.)

[excon]

and the real question of if it SHOULD be built .

Hello again, tom:

Assuming you meant to say, the real question is, SHOULD it be built, I'll handle that one. It's easy. I also agree, that THAT is the central question.

Should an American citizen build what he wants to build on his own property, assuming of course, that he's met all local zoning and building codes? Of course he should.

Should it matter whether I like it or not? No.

excon

[Wondergirl]

NYC already has over 200 registed Mosques . Lower Manhattan already has a few .

So? This will revitalize a broken, even derelict, area of Manhattan.