[Shadowburn]

Sorry, without reading all these pages of drama - and I'm sure that amazing people here gave you all the advice already - just want to drop my two cents and reiterate - NO, you shouldn't buy her a car, YES, you should risk things being over, and if I were you I'd make damn sure they are over effective immediately.

Good luck.

[jmw0713]

Sorry for the harshness, but you need someone to slap you upside your head to get you thinking properly.

Why are you being her doormat? The guy in her apartment is either her pimp or is F-ing her. She treats you like complete SH--! I have no idea why anyone would allow themselves to be treated this way.

You need to grow a pair, put her in her place and leave. She has NO RESPECT FOR YOU. She only wants you for the money. The girl's job is to squeeze money out of guys... How are you any different than the other clients???????? You are a walking, talking dollar sign!

Time to stop looking for talent with "potential" in strip clubs and go for some real, emotionally stable, and more respectful women.

If a girl told me that I either "buy her a car, or we are done", I would have laughed in her face, called her some choice names not mentionable on this site, and walked away.

I cannot believe the last 7 pages I've read. I think this could be the worst case of doormatitis I've ever seen here. Almost too crazy to believe.

[Kitkat22]

Sorry for the harshness, but you need someone to slap you upside your head to get you thinking properly.

Why are you being her doormat? The guy in her apartment is either her pimp or is F-ing her. She treats you like complete SH--! I have no idea why anyone would allow themselves to be treated this way.

You need to grow a pair, put her in her place and leave. She has NO RESPECT FOR YOU. She only wants you for the money. The girl's job is to squeeze money out of guys...How are you any different than the other clients???????? You are a walking, talking dollar sign!

Time to stop looking for talent with "potential" in strip clubs and go for some real, emotionally stable, and more respectful women.

If a girl told me that I either "buy her a car, or we are done", I would have laughed in her face, called her some choice names not mentionable on this site, and walked away.

I cannot believe the last 7 pages I've read. I think this could be the worst case of doormatitis I've ever seen here. Almost too crazy to believe.

Doormatitis?? :D Exactly. To the OP about that Lexus I want>>>:rolleyes:Kidding

[SamBuzz]

Where's the thread about waiting for the other person to break things off instead of breaking them off yourself?

In my case, I know I don't have real long to wait for the next tantrum...

Anyone want to start taking side bets on whether she'll return the engagement diamonds if I ask for them the next time she says we're over?

[Kitkat22]

Where's the thread about waiting for the other person to break things off instead of breaking them off yourself?

In my case, I know I dont have real long to wait for the next tantrum.......

Anyone want to start taking side bets on whether she'll return the engagement diamonds if I ask for them the next time she says we're over?

Tell he you have another ring she'll like better. Go out and buy a I or 2 carat zirconium fake. Tell her , "Take off the other ring sweetheart, try this one". When she does get the ring and run... Just an idea.. but I'll bet it would work... If she says she's going to have you aressested it for it say.. It's my ring.

[Homegirl 50]

I'm sorry, I could not read all of this.
Is this a joke, are you serious? You seem to get a big kick out of looking like a fool.
If this is all true, that's what you are, a fool!
Is her stuff lined with gold or what?
What reason would any man with good sense and self respect put up with this let alone tell about it and ask if they should stay?

I'm inclined to believe this is a joke, if it is not and you are that dense, drop this woman and get some help.

[positiveparent]

So Sam you work the stock market do you, well well well. It just so happens that my husband does the same however he calls it playing the stock market.

He does it for fun or relaxation. So in view of this you'll know that at 7pm daily if a person wants they can accumalate a tidy sum, for doing nothing some days it may be 300 or 50 but these little sums of cash can really help fill your bank account.

Im sure you know what Im referring to. So do you work Wall Street? My Hubby plays the FTSE.

He sells high and buys low... Hes a stock broker and a major share holder, in many commodities.

That's why he calls it playing because he's using his own money, not other peoples.

I remember that comment about Pretty Women, how ironic...

[Homegirl 50]

How old are you?

[asking]

Re: Budget: What other word to use for I only have so much to share without chipping away at my savings?

The other word is "Paycheck." You are paying her to treat you badly. When she asks for more, she's asking for a raise. Nothing wrong with enterprise.

Is this an example of a boundary? $1000 is what I have to share with you this month. If you are a partner in helping me be more productive, great we move forward, and if not, then it ends, we go our separate ways...

No, it's not. Here's an example of a boundary: "I'm very fond of you, Sheree, but I can't support you. I'm saving for a house I'm planning to buy. I am glad to take you out to dinner and buy an occasional small gift, but I think you need to sort out your finances on your own."

Second boundary: Anything more than that, and I'm not willing to share it, unless its some kind of emergency I can verify...

No. That's parental/financial manipulation. ESPECIALLY when you don't follow through.

she was saying the other day she had boxed up some of her stuff again after an argument with him, as if ready to move... She is still very angry about him snooping through her stuff back April and early may to figure out what was going on with me and her. She complained yesterday her brother let something about me slip in front of they guy she lives with...

This just gets worse and worse. If she can't tell him about you, it's because he would be jealous, which means she is in a relationship with him, which means you are the side guy. Your settling for being "the other man" is an example of not having boundaries.

She tells me she treats him even worse than me.

This is the good news? So you are eager to move into first place, so you'll be treated even worse?

You are responsible for choosing to be with someone who treats you badly. Why do you choose this?

Maybe I need to really ask her again to go to counselling with me, and let a counsellor help sort things out...

I recommend that you go for counseling by yourself. And don't let anyone tell you that you are perfectly normal. You are not. If the therapist says that, fire her and find another one.

[Homegirl 50]

I just finished reading all of this.
If this is true, you are with a hooker who is taking you for a ride and you're asking if you should stay on the bus or get off. Are you that desperate for a woman?

If this is real, I think you like drama, you like being taken advantage of and you like talking about it. What I don't understand is, how you can give sound advice on other threads yet be such an idiot here, unless you just love all of this mess, in which case you are as narcissistic as she is.

[positiveparent]

Actually, this is probably about the worst advice possible.... I realize it was probably in jest, but......

1) That is how i met her, she was one of the most reasonable priced girls out there
2) she began telling me all about her personal life, about her custody battle for her son, and I had sympathy for a mother's love for her son. I wondered at first if it was true, but I know she aint making this up, he does exist, the situation is as she says.
3) the sex has continued, but all kinds of other baggage has made the visits way to expensive
4) I put up with the other guy because I can appreciate her trying to do whatever she thought would be best to get her son back, even if it included this living with the other guy for a while.
5) maybe now you understand that saying to me, go get a hooker, it's probably like telling a whiskey alcoholic, "Hey scotch is better!"
6) she's my third long term girlfriend (several months +) who was some kind of adult entertainment worker at the start of our relationship
7) I cried on her shoulder about how the previous girlfriend had taken advantage of me to help the her get an apartment near my job and a college to help her go to school and give me a nice home environment on the nights i stay near my work (to avoid 3 hours of communiting). Unfrotunately that was just before her "brother" in jail, turned out to be her boyfriend out of jail needing a place to stay, and me not ever staying more than one night in the apartment I had rented for us. By crying on the current girls shoulder, I gave her way to much to use against me, I set myself up as a mark, and incited a competitive possessive spirit in the current girl. Example: today she expressed jealousy of her mother asking me for $10 saying "You could have given me that money, I'm going to tell her off"

That all should give Martinizing2 plenty more grist for his fiction and professional help vote.....

This gal really does seem to be out of doing that life, other than possibly with me in the role of "the last client", or at best "the man on the side", something she said she has done at least once or twice before since she has been with the guy she is living with.

She is very stubborn and extremely rebellious to anything she thinks she is being told to do. Like the other girls, she has an extremely low frustration level. Yes, she is very concerned about her looks, in looks department, she is well above most the crowd she was running with, but she is by no means elegant.

She has complained that memory of our beginning has caused her problems many times about how she thinks about me. I have kept saying to her over the last year, if we are both out of doing that life, but we find something that works between us, does where we started really matter? Yes, apparently it does, looks like its way to hard to get out of the client/provider role no matter how much we try to relabel.

And yes, i've been tested several times for every possible disease, and so has she, even every recently, and everything came up negative, I heard her test results over the phone from Kaiser just a couple of weeks ago. For the fiction and conspiracy buffs, at least I think it was a nurse at kaiser she was calling....

It's 6am, she just called me, I just failed on the allowing her to contact me score....

She is telling me about the latest custody problems with her aunt yesterday, the aunt is trying to do parental alienation against her with her son, and the son is complaining to her. She forwarded me texts from her son of things that the aunt was saying against his mom, and him saying the aunt had threatened to whoop him if he tells his mom.

"I love my earings... they are at least 3 carats, I hope someone doesn't steal them off of me.... i love them.... I didn't even show my mom and them... i was talking on a phone with a lawyer about my aunt...."

I told her that last night I ate a couple of the store bought salads she gave me yesterday to keep for a snack....

"I got you a lunch plate for you today, crab, corn, and salad, i wrapped it and everyhting... i was going to come and see you last night, but my eyes were puffy... its too much about my son, i really want to be a parent, but it is just me runnign around.... I'm getting my clothes on, so I can roll out of as soon as he (guy she lives with) gets out of here.... stay in this area one more night, please, I miss you.... i am not going to have a bad attitude at all, zip my mouth.... thank you, for everything.... i finally figured how to take off my diamond bracelet ... i cleaned it. The clasp goes on so tight, it wont slip off."

i say good thing, I'm still making payments on it, at least let me pay it off before it gets lost. She was telling me yesterday what an important symbol it is, no one can make her take it off.

"i had a very good time with you, did you have a good time... you still my nigger if you dont get no bigger, dont take that as an insult..."

I'm white, and she is black, and this is a big joke between us. I like to respond "I'm the only black guy on my floor at work"

She has said many times, back when she was lying about her living situation, that I should just relax and go with the flow.... I realize, in reality, it was she who was not relaxed and keeping a secret, that caused all kinds of disfunction that seemed confusing as random behavior. I've been open with her, but she says "well thats how you do things, but thats not how I do things. you just dont say certain things until the time is right."

She is coming for me to take her to breakfast, before she and I go to work this morning....

Not one mention of the car, maybe the problems with her son have her preoccupied, we'll see how breakfast goes.....

Maybe the comment about it being the drama is most on target, the relationship sure is a challenge, a whirlwind is interesting for all the stuff it rearranges...

It would not be uncommon for someone in her position to excited by the clandestine nature of our relationship, which is a danger sign for the possibility of turning it into something more permanent, once it is just she and I, then she would be bored with it. When she was in her snitty mood yesterday, she was saying something similar to that.....

Without this drama, my life otherwise might be pretty boring, go to work, go to hotel, go to work, go to hotel, go bowling, go to work, go home, work at home couple of days, pretend to exercise for a few days, have weekend, go to church, go back to work, spend every spare minute studying stock market (oh yes, day trade from 6:30 until work starts every morning) repeat process.....

I hate to think it is just an attraction to the drama....

I was bang on the money though wasn't I, your quote Pretty Woman, helped. You want to try to sell this as a script. On Jackanory or Playschool. It could be a seller...

Walter Mitty comes to mind along with Pinocchio.

[SamBuzz]

BTW, the wrapped lunch she brought me today (Wednesday), was, drumroll, leftover crab, and corn on the cob, and some kind of salad with prawns from Sunday. She knows in the year we've been together I've never eaten shellfish, just not my thing... If I had been at the party, I would have graciously tried some of it, and maybe found something I would enjoy... But three days old? I have no idea if it was any good, I left it behind when I left my room.

Reminded me of George Carlin's skit on leftovers: "Here, eat this, it's spoiling!" or "If you dont eat this, I'm only going to give it to an animal...."

I just shake my head and wonder how someone could be so clueless... (I know you're saying, most of you are wondering more about me than her in that department... )

>This just gets worse and worse. If she can't tell him about you, it's because he would be jealous, which means she is in a relationship with him, which means you are the side guy. Your settling for being "the other man" is an example of not having boundaries.

You're right, I keep coming back to that no matter how hard I try to keep what she says in my head of how she has kept sticking by me.

Its so untenable, she has to know it, and probably explains part of the reason why she is so desperate for another trophy before the gig is up. Or maybe she is clueless enough to think the pressure tactic would work. I listen to James Lehman's "transform your child from bad behaviours, no more lying, backtalkign or acting out" and I want to call and see if he has a "transform your girlfriend" program...

I'm going to really hate pulling the plug on her... She and I have talked a lot about why is she staying in her situation if she really is so happy, or she wonders why is he still keeping her around, and all we can come up with is "comfortable and known".

Yeah, she actually pulled out the "I'm arguing with him about you that I'm going to keep seeing you, when he'd like me to give you up. I'm standing up for you..." She'll sometimes add "But I'm trying not to show any more disrespect than I already did, I did wrong, I stepped out of my box, he's disgusted with me, thats why he doesn't touch me sexually anymore, and while I think he's messing around and getting his jolly somewhere else, I dont have any proof other than a text message. But I'm unhappy there...."

Hard to figure out what she's standing up for. Whether that is or not, its exactly like what it would be to have an affair with a married woman, which was never my plan in the first place. So maybe that is an excellent example of not having proper boundaries for myself...

One of the control techniques she has used to is to isolate me from her friends, and keep my contact to a limited few she knows she can control. Carefully limit me from anyone who might tell me the true score about things. She likes to claim credit for having introduced me to her family, and some of her friends, that should show me I'm not just a client. I remember a public event last labor day, a motorcycle club function where lots and lots of custom bikes were gathered in Oakland. It wasn't even her club putting it on. She had told me she would be with her club having a booth selling food to raise money. I told her I would likely go to it to look at the bikes, but I didn't announce my exact departure for the event. I arrived, walked around, saw no booth for her club, but did see some of her club sisters passing out flyers to another event of their clubs sponsorship. They all greeted me warmly, there was small talk. Eventually my girlfriend arrived with her close posse, and eventually I ran across them, she had heard I was already there. When she saw me, it was anything but friendly from her. She was extremely angry I hadn't told her my exact movements. I had no good clue of any other guy around at that point, there were oddities, but nothing specific, and lots of "I've taken you around everything to show you nothing is going on". She has since claimed many times she never parties with him anyhow, because he can't hold his liquor, he starts bringing up the past and they get in fights... Anyhow she was really angry, but practically demanded some money. I gave her what was in my pocket, so she could party away the rest of the day... so many signs things were just sour, any one of them a good enough reason to exit.

I guess I'm conceited enough to think I could hang with her better than him if she was with me, but the reality is both he and I probably share doormatitis (maybe she's a carrier). He might be a fairly decent person, she's said many times she wishes he and I could meet so I could understand he's OK and not going to hurt her.

Its obvious, I'm just not prepared to deal with being emotionally manipulated, too much belief in the ability of people to transform themselves with a little help, too little willingness to just believe what is said when they are angry or stressed may be more true than the façade shown when they are happy and trying to butter me up. The reality I discover time and again is that few better themselves from help, help just makes their life in the gutter easier...

I've been researching for a long time trying to figure out what condition would describe her problem. Is it incurable, or is there hope. Borderline personality disorder is as close as anyone I know can figure out. I often wonder if it was compulsive lying, and if she believes her own lies.

No I've been saying to her for a long time I want a way to see this relationship getting like normal people, and she apparently just isn't into that. The message for me from her actions is be happy with how things are, don't ask for more because she finds that stressful, she's going to do what she wants strictly because it is what she wants so don't forget anything she did was because she wanted to do it, or just leave, "I'll be ok" she says.

There's a whole culture in her group on Facebook of "I'm just doing me"... For me real love can and probably should involve sacrifice, but it should be one sided, or treated cruely in return.

I already let her know I'd thought about all this, and it seems to me I need 6 months of seeing what a normal relationship could be like with her, before I would really be happy to buy her a car as some kind of celebration of a great milestone... 6 months where I'm relatively free to come and visit her at her own place, she reciprocates nicely, some other guy or his kid isn't the constant excuse on why there is a cancel, etc. we're relatively free to travel.

As for not telling her how I feel, actually I've been over most of this with her. You have all seen the answers, and no one else is fooled by them...

She was inviting me to come to her work today to visit her on her break... I did decline that...

For helping her break away from him, I have not been opposed to sharing the cost of a place with her. I appreciate what some say about making her do everything on her own first, but that's a bit harsh... As for supporting her on a place to live, I would gladly put what I spend on hotels when I'm out of town towards her rent if I stay there on the nights I am in town, and add a little more to that, where all her rent is covered, and even some spending money just so she can feel secure, and concentrate on something like schooling (I've given her money towards schooling in the last year that hasn't happened, and apparently so has he from what she says). I have no way to know if I was just being hustled. But I've actively encouraged it, bought her a lot of books on self betterment, she claims to have worked through them. Some were workbooks, I'd asked her to share with me her answers when she is done, she's told me about some answers, but never had the time to share with me. Kind of hard to remmeber to lug all this stuff to a clandestine meeting I guess...

There is almost no way for her to get her finances together and have a place of her own on $8.50 an hour in California bay area. She could share a place but that's it. But with her attitudes, it's a very rare person who will put up with her outbursts, and I think she knows that. At one point she claimed they were getting physically abusive with each other, and she was talking about a way out because she was worried it would escalate, but if any of this stuff against him is true, she's been really good at sticking with her situation in spite of it.

Before she moved in with him last November, in Sept or October I offered her a deal to support her in an apartment, plus a little bit of spending money so she wouldn't penniless. She'd have to earn most of her own spending money from a job, or find a girlfriend to share the extra bedroom, and the girlfriends rent could be her spending money. We did apply together for a place, but they turned us down, her credit must be more lousy than I realized. She never let us try again anywhere else, it was probably about that time she made her plans to get a place with the guy.



She made her choice, and I need to face that. I think the difference in birthday from last year to this year (last year I was allowed to attend her birthday party (she warned me she wouldn't pay a lot of attention to me, she'd be very busy with all the guests, and I never tripped, I actually really enjoyed watching her be a socialite), and I got to take her out on her birthday), and this year no time on those days.

I need to just decide there is too much water under the bridge at this point, and just back off and let her live with her choices...

Glad there wasn't anyone here being fooled by what she says... And not even the fiction crowd claiming maybe I was misrepresenting what she was saying, or that she had a good reason for her actions, or that no one could be this bad to some one (well OK maybe the fiction crowd might be sayting that). Just a unanimous it's a burning building fully engulfed, fire department just standing back and watching, get the heck out...

Thanks much to everyone...

[asking]

She made her choice, and I need to face that. I think the difference in birthday from last year to this year (last year I went to her birthday party, and got to take her out on her birthday), and this year no time on those days.

I need to just decide there is too much water under the bridge at this point, and just back off and let her live with her choices...

Now you are starting to sound sensible.
High drama is exciting, but pain is not fun.

Very few counsellors say you are OK and don't need them. The bottom of most of their scale is "you should come in weekly, it would be a growth experience...." Ask them to give you a straight answer on how to bring closure to the counselling, you'll

I hear you. But you might be surprised. People like to be told that they are psychologically healthy and just have a few little issues. As for bringing it to a close, that's your decision, not the counselor's.

(I'm not a psychologist but I play one on television.)

[DoulaLC]

Right Sam,

Stop with the play by play of how she is treating you. Not sure if you are still trying to talk yourself into it or what, but deep down you KNOW what you need to do.

Everyone has been in agreement with you, so there is no further need to share the gory details. Time to collect your toys and get out of the sandbox already. Game over.

Move on, take time to figure out why you gravitate towards this sort of relationship and allow yourself to be treated this way. Hopefully you will someday find yourself with someone mature and responsible.

You deserve better... don't settle for anything less next time.

[Homegirl 50]

Have to spread some rep DoulaLC but I agree.
We don't need anymore play by play. We could see the ridiculousness of it at the original post.
You know it's crazy and needs to end, so get it done. Get some self respect and back bone. Stop allowing yourself to be sucked in to relationships like this. It's so tacky, tawdry.

[SamBuzz]

Been looking at all the how to have no contact threads, and didn't realize it should extend to family members of the other person, but can see the justifications there for that.

[Wondergirl]

Been looking at all the how to have no contact threads, and didn't realize it should extend to family members of the other person, but can see the justifications there for that.

Be sure to read the one started by ISneezeFunny. He started it Dec. 11, 2007, and it went for two years. It's even better than War and Peace. I tell him he should get it published.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...161688-51.html

He's become like our son now and baby brother.

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

Um excuse me? Buy me another car or we're over?

Sounds like you're her bank.

Lose her.

[QLP]

I'm not usually blunt on here but I have never read a post which left me quite so apoplectic.

Either you are addicted to being some kind of self-styled martyr who sets himself up for a good kicking time and time again then feeds on the drama of whinging about it. Is this site somehow validating your need to be seen as the good guy? Healthy people don't make a habit of trying to save every hooker they meet by turning the transaction into a half-hearted relationship based on buying new cars for continued sexual favours which is supposed to be love.

Or you are a delusional fantasist.

Either way please get some professional help.

[Homegirl 50]

I know several guys with the "Captain save a ho" mentality.
It makes them feel special to go after the lowest woman they can find, do everything but eat her dirty drawers and then complain that she did not treat him like the knight he is.
Everyone of those guys I know, loves the drama of it all, don't feel secure around a normal everyday woman. They go after those they perceive to be lower than themselves.
In other words, Low Self-Esteem.