[ChampagneTastes]

I've been in a long-term committed relationship with my boyfriend for the past six years. He has been a wonderful companion to me since day one, and has taken good care of me mentally and spiritually. The only problem that we seemed to have was that he never seemed to respond to my advances. I am a very sexual person by nature, and I hate going a long time without sex. We waited for as long as six months before we finally did have sex, usually, and when we did I always felt unfulfilled because we would have to try and finish as fast as possible, or else he would lose his erection.

I don't blame him for it because he has a thyroid and pituitary gland problem, and he's been taking medication for it recently. He's been recovering very well, and lately I have even started to notice that he will touch me a little to suggest that he is interested. But after so many years of being pushed away when I would come to him with interest, I taught myself to no longer look at him as an option. I hate to make this comparison, but I look at him now as I would an animal or a child. I don't view him as a sexual partner to me. I still find him extremely attractive, but I cannot seem to bring myself to want him sexually anymore, because I have taught myself that that was not an option for me. When he does touch me now, I almost feel dirty. I feel that it is wrong, and I can never respond positively to him when he does it. I can tell it hurts his feelings.

I don't know what to do. He is almost perfect in every way, aside from the fact that I cannot see myself being with him sexually any longer. I find myself considering affairs just to get what I need, because for six years I have had to go without, and for a young person like me that is very difficult to do.

What do you think I should do? Do you think our relationship is doomed? :( Please help...

[CravenMorhead]

This is so painfully familiar with my first marriage.

I was in the same situation with my Ex-Wife. Our efforts to stay child free using Depo was entirely successful but only to the point that it left her with no libido. So birth control due to unintentional abstinence.

Anyhow, She had no interest in sex for the longest time. I would want sex, but she would blow me off every time. When we were going through our divorce, she brought this up and I told her that I am sort of like a dog. Swat me away enough times I am just going to stop asking.

There were other issues in that relationship, but they aren't relevant.

A relationship is like a sewer, you get out of it what you put in. Do you want to stay with this fellow? Honestly and brutally? If you are staying with him because he is a good guy isn't good enough. You're playing with him and it isn't fair. If you're staying with him because you truly love him and can see a future, kids, house, mini-van, and Disneyland, then you have a couple choices.

1) Figure it out with him. Sit down and talk with him. Tell him everything and see if you can't find the solution.

2). The better solution is to go to couples/sexual counselling. Let a professional help you see if you can recover the relationship. If there is hope they can usually coax it back into healthy relationship.

The important thing to think about and consider is where you are in the relationship. Do you want to put in the effort into fixing it. Are you still invested in the relationship. If you're not, then end it.

[kp2171]

A lot to talk about here. I ramble. Especially when I'm really vested in the situation. Apologies in advance.

The very basic facts are that he has medical conditions, and likely connected, peripheral conditions/treatments/problems that flat out are "legitimate" reasons for a depressed drive. That is a fact.

You have coped with the loss of a fundamental pillar of what it means to be in a loving relationship (intimate touch) by branding his as "sexually neutral"... its simply easier to live without (tho' not easy) by telling yourself that he cannot provide that intimacy. You have a defensive wall built around this that's let you survive in the relationship, but its at a cost. And there are holes in that wall... you are still a sexual being and you still have that need for connection. His conditions do not excuse him from seeking help or seeking you... and you need to deal with this in a more constructive way than denying or suppressing. That's a fact.

Lets talk about him first. I know this is about you, but I can't talk about one without the other. Does he know if his testosterone levels are low and, if so, whether he is a candidate for hormone treatment? Testosterone levels naturally drop over time, but it happens in some men faster than others and certain medical conditions can also accelerate this. So... how are his testosterone levels? If low, this is a physiological barrier that can be addressed, perhaps.

Is he fit? Overweight? Active? Does he exercise? Again... I understand there are medical conditions that he struggles with, but I simply want to know has this been addressed also medically? If he isn't active, why not? What does his doctor recommend? If he is overweight, is there a plan to address this? I haven't a clue about his age or the other medical issues that could be at play... but a decreased sexual drive and performance, in my opinion, is sometimes linked to one "big event"... but more often linked to the sum of many other smaller events...

The frustration of that is treating just one thing may not "fix" the problem. The opportunity in that is there might be several fronts to attack... and a little progress in each of these sometimes can render great results.

Of course the last area he should really address is psychological. Yes... he clearly has psysiological conditions that might be to blame.. but I seriously doubt that psychological issues haven't developed as well.

Anxiety about performance, drive, depression... they all feed into this self-defeating cycle that feeds on itself. A man can mentally "neuter" himself by ignoring or refusing to deal with these issues. And it is such an evil monster that perpetuates on its own. But that isn't an excuse... not a pass... it should be addressed, and that comes best with counseling.

Men who are physically capable of having erections, but struggling with low drive and quality performance, can often respond well to two things: an increase in exercise and therapy/counseling for mental blocks.

Both bring balance... mental and physiological. Both are needed. Period.

So he does not get a free pass just because he has some legitimate "reasons" for a depressed drive. The snowstorm that came through last month was the reason for my driveway being blocked in (again) but that didn't mean I didn't have to go out and shovel.

Lastly... have his meds been checked for decreased drive? Does he use alcohol or other substances that alter mood? In excess?

He has work to do, and I hope he wants to do it.

*************

And now to you...

So I really hate it when I start a post this way, but I'm about to... but would you consider talking to a counselor/therapist as an option?

If not, would it make a difference if I asked pretty please? You need to talk about this... to someone... its why you are here at AMHD...

You've managed to "cope" your way through this mess, but its come at a cost. You have built up one helluva defense concerning sex and your partner. Honestly... distancing him and no longer seeing him as a sexual being is natural in this situation... we all have that capacity... we do it with past lovers... rethink and retool our minds into accepting, eventually, that they are no longer our lovers. We do it with friends of the opposite sex that we are not attracted to, minimizing the importance of them as a sexual being in our lives.

So... we have the capacity to change how we think, and even how you feel... its just a slow process. And sometimes not needed... maybe its OK to be pissed or hurt or lonely or wanting.

I've seen two people in a similar situation, one being a person I know well and care about, and the other being a friend of a friend of a friend. Both were in relationships where they felt sexually neglected. Both buried it until it couldn't be buried anymore. Both cheated.

Cheating, in my mind, is just another coping mechanism that simply will not solve the question at hand... and the real question at hand isn't whether you can have an orgasm with another partner, whether you can feel alive sexually again...

The real question is can this relationship survive this problem?

You can probably find some temporary relief in someone else's arms or bed. But the nagging question will still be there... the chasm will still be there... and more debris is now in the way of getting to a better place, if that's possible.

The one friend I'm close to managed to do this for several years. By the time it was done, she'd fallen in and out and back in love with the other man. When it was really, really done... she was left with two broken relationships that would never be mended and enough guilt to break anyone's back. She'd admit that she wasn't completely sorry for her actions... that feeling alive was better than nothing... but that it wouldve been better without all the noise.

The other person.. the friend of a friend of a friend... she's still cheating. Still unhappy. Still lost. She has, apparently great sex... but you wouldn't know it by being around her. She's clearly not any more fulfilled...

Good lord am I depressing today or what?

The good news is you know this isn't sustainable. Something has to give. I can't tell you what that looks like. I know it is going to involve some form of major acceptance... that the relationship can be mended or that it can't but its OK or that it can't and you need more or... I don't know.

But its time to talk. Talk to a counselor. You might absolutely HATE making that apptmt, but I will bet you will be better walking out. I went through a horrible depression years ago... icky stuff. And I hated that first appointment. Man... I wanted to not be there. But I needed to be... and its good to have resources... good to have that "safe place" where you can simply say what you think without pretense or concern.

You don't deserve to feel neglected. You don't deserve the baggage that cheating would likely load onto you. You do deserve to live in a place of reality... whatever that is. That means talking to him about this. That means seeking out help for you.

There are ways to address this between you two, but its tricky. I love to learn by reading. I like to read what my lover might find interesting. I've said over and over this concept. Gary chapman's five love languages and ian kerner's she comes first... those guys owe me some coin for marketing. They are good books to read, dogear, mark, and share. And when you share a book that an easy read but covers topics like this... you end up talking about the book... and less of "why dont you do this" and more of "this hits home for me"...

I think people should share conversation (and for me this includes readings) about money, goals, sex, relationships, and sometimes faith... if you can't find common ground in these areas, the relationship might not be doomed... but it is certainly off balance.

Right now you are with a GGB... we get it all the time here... he is a Great Guy But... (fill in whatever need is not being met)...

The GGB is in danger of becoming your girlfriend, your nonsexual confidant. Or your butler, the arranger and doer of things needing done. Those who say "if you love him then it shouldnt matter" are short sighted.

Love does change. It matures. It regresses. Its dynamic. We are not static beings and neither is love.

k. even I'm starting to lose myself. Told you I ramble on and on...

[slapshot_oi]

Do you think our relationship is doomed?

Well.. .

I am a very sexual person by nature, and I hate going a long time without sex. . . I cannot see myself being with him sexually any longer. . . because for six years I have had to go without, and for a young person like me that is very difficult to do.

Yeah.

You're not getting what you want and it sounds like you never have, it'd better for both of you to end it than prolong this and to the point of infidelity. Spring is here, and that's when a lot of couples break up to get ready for their summer of love.

[ChampagneTastes]

Thank you for your advice. It's very much appreciated. :) Although I am not glad for your suffering, it is comforting to know that I am not the only one out there that has had to endure this sort of problem.

[Gemini54]

I don't think that your relationship is doomed - it only is if you want it to be.

My husband and I have been in this position, and still occasionally are - except it's me that has the diminishing libido and he's the one the one that wonders where it's all going and hates going without sex, and we both feel awkward as a result.

There are no certainties. My certainty is that my husband and I love each other very much. It might lead, eventually, to the demise of our relationship - but then again it might not - we both hope it won't.

We talk, we work through it. We try and laugh about it. He probably makes the greater sacrifice. We both believe that our relationship is worth it - so we commit to being together, we continue to make an effort to be sexual even though it sometimes feels like we've trained ourselves not to feel sexual.

You can retrain your brain to feel differently. I'm doing my best to do so and so is my husband.

The question is, is the relationship important enough for you to WANT to make the effort?

He's trying - which surely must be changing the dynamic - why don't you give him one last chance?

[ChampagneTastes]

I don't think that your relationship is doomed - it only is if you want it to be.

My husband and I have been in this position, and still occasionally are - except it's me that has the diminishing libido and he's the one the one that wonders where it's all going and hates going without sex, and we both feel awkward as a result.

There are no certainties. My certainty is that my husband and I love each other very much. It might lead, eventually, to the demise of our relationship - but then again it might not - we both hope it won't.

We talk, we work through it. We try and laugh about it. He probably makes the greater sacrifice. We both believe that our relationship is worth it - so we commit to being together, we continue to make an effort to be sexual even though it sometimes feels like we've trained ourselves not to feel sexual.

You can retrain your brain to feel differently. I'm doing my best to do so and so is my husband.

The question is, is the relationship important enough for you to WANT to make the effort?

He's trying - which surely must be changing the dynamic - why don't you give him one last chance?

Thank you for your advice. I will try to give him a chance.

[ChampagneTastes]

a lot to talk about here. i ramble. especially when im really vested in the situation. apologies in advance.

the very basic facts are that he has medical conditions, and likely connected, peripheral conditions/treatments/problems that flat out are "legitimate" reasons for a depressed drive. that is a fact.

you have coped with the loss of a fundamental pillar of what it means to be in a loving relationship (intimate touch) by branding his as "sexually neutral"... its simply easier to live without (tho' not easy) by telling yourself that he cannot provide that intimacy. you have a defensive wall built around this thats let you survive in the relationship, but its at a cost. and there are holes in that wall... you are still a sexual being and you still have that need for connection. his conditions do not excuse him from seeking help or seeking you... and you need to deal with this in a more constructive way than denying or suppressing. thats a fact.

lets talk about him first. i know this is about you, but i can't talk about one without the other. does he know if his testosterone levels are low and, if so, whether he is a candidate for hormone treatment? testosterone levels naturally drop over time, but it happens in some men faster than others and certain medical conditions can also accelerate this. so... how are his testosterone levels? if low, this is a physiological barrier that can be addressed, perhaps.

is he fit? overweight? active? does he exercise? again... i understand there are medical conditions that he struggles with, but i simply want to know has this been addressed also medically? if he isnt active, why not? what does his doctor recommend? if he is overweight, is there a plan to address this? i havent a clue about his age or the other medical issues that could be at play... but a decreased sexual drive and performance, in my opinion, is sometimes linked to one "big event"... but more often linked to the sum of many other smaller events...

the frustration of that is treating just one thing may not "fix" the problem. the opportunity in that is there might be several fronts to attack... and a little progress in each of these sometimes can render great results.

of course the last area he should really address is psychological. yes... he clearly has psysiological conditions that might be to blame.. but i seriously doubt that psychological issues havent developed as well.

anxiety about performance, drive, depression... they all feed into this self-defeating cycle that feeds on itself. a man can mentally "neuter" himself by ignoring or refusing to deal with these issues. and it is such an evil monster that perpetuates on its own. but that isnt an excuse... not a pass... it should be addressed, and that comes best with counseling.

men who are physically capable of having erections, but struggling with low drive and quality performance, can often respond well to two things: an increase in exercise and therapy/counseling for mental blocks.

both bring balance... mental and physiological. both are needed. period.

so he does not get a free pass just because he has some legitimate "reasons" for a depressed drive. the snowstorm that came through last month was the reason for my driveway being blocked in (again) but that didnt mean i didnt have to go out and shovel.

lastly... have his meds been checked for decreased drive? does he use alcohol or other substances that alter mood? in excess?

he has work to do, and i hope he wants to do it.

*************

and now to you...

so i really hate it when i start a post this way, but im about to... but would you consider talking to a counselor/therapist as an option?

if not, would it make a difference if i asked pretty please? you need to talk about this... to someone... its why you are here at AMHD...

you've managed to "cope" your way through this mess, but its come at a cost. you have built up one helluva defense concerning sex and your partner. honestly... distancing him and no longer seeing him as a sexual being is natural in this situation... we all have that capacity... we do it with past lovers... rethink and retool our minds into accepting, eventually, that they are no longer our lovers. we do it with friends of the opposite sex that we are not attracted to, minimizing the importance of them as a sexual being in our lives.

so... we have the capacity to change how we think, and even how you feel... its just a slow process. and sometimes not needed... maybe its ok to be pissed or hurt or lonely or wanting.

ive seen two people in a similar situation, one being a person i know well and care about, and the other being a friend of a friend of a friend. both were in relationships where they felt sexually neglected. both buried it until it couldnt be buried anymore. both cheated.

cheating, in my mind, is just another coping mechanism that simply will not solve the question at hand... and the real question at hand isnt whether you can have an orgasm with another partner, whether you can feel alive sexually again...

the real question is can this relationship survive this problem?

you can probably find some temporary relief in someone else's arms or bed. but the nagging question will still be there... the chasm will still be there... and more debris is now in the way of getting to a better place, if thats possible.

the one friend im close to managed to do this for several years. by the time it was done, she'd fallen in and out and back in love with the other man. when it was really, really done... she was left with two broken relationships that would never be mended and enough guilt to break anyone's back. she'd admit that she wasn't completely sorry for her actions... that feeling alive was better than nothing... but that it wouldve been better without all the noise.

the other person.. the friend of a friend of a friend... shes still cheating. still unhappy. still lost. she has, apparently great sex... but you wouldnt know it by being around her. shes clearly not any more fulfilled...

good lord am i depressing today or what?

the good news is you know this isnt sustainable. something has to give. i can't tell you what that looks like. i know it is going to involve some form of major acceptance... that the relationship can be mended or that it can't but its ok or that it can't and you need more or... i dont know.

but its time to talk. talk to a counselor. you might absolutely HATE making that apptmt, but i will bet you will be better walking out. i went through a horrible depression years ago... icky stuff. and i hated that first appointment. man... i wanted to not be there. but i needed to be... and its good to have resources... good to have that "safe place" where you can simply say what you think without pretense or concern.

you dont deserve to feel neglected. you dont deserve the baggage that cheating would likely load onto you. you do deserve to live in a place of reality... whatever that is. that means talking to him about this. that means seeking out help for you.

there are ways to address this between you two, but its tricky. i love to learn by reading. i like to read what my lover might find interesting. ive said over and over this concept. gary chapman's five love languages and ian kerner's she comes first... those guys owe me some coin for marketing. they are good books to read, dogear, mark, and share. and when you share a book that an easy read but covers topics like this... you end up talking about the book... and less of "why dont you do this" and more of "this hits home for me"...

i think people should share conversation (and for me this includes readings) about money, goals, sex, relationships, and sometimes faith... if you can't find common ground in these areas, the relationship might not be doomed... but it is certainly off balance.

right now you are with a GGB... we get it all the time here... he is a Great Guy But... (fill in whatever need is not being met)...

the GGB is in danger of becoming your girlfriend, your nonsexual confidant. or your butler, the arranger and doer of things needing done. those who say "if you love him then it shouldnt matter" are short sighted.

love does change. it matures. it regresses. its dynamic. we are not static beings and neither is love.

k. even im starting to lose myself. told you i ramble on and on...

Gosh.. I'm not really certain where to begin. XD I am overwhelmed. Thank you so much. I'm sure it must have taken quite a lot of time to write all this out. It is more than I could have ever expected.

To answer some of your questions, yes, he is being treated for his low testosterone level. He is recovering, and is beginning to show interest again. So the problem is no longer him, it's me. I am seeing him as being 'sexually neutral', as you so cleverly put it, and I am beginning to worry that perhaps what has been done to me psychologically cannot be reversed.

Don't be concerned about suggesting therapy. I am very open to the idea and have considered it a few times in the past. I may bring it up to him when I finally get up the nerve to talk to him about this, but I want to give it at least a few more months just to see if my feelings towards him change in the face of his new found interest.

Thank you again so much for all your help. I cannot express how grateful I am for it. :)

[kp2171]

To answer some of your questions, yes, he is being treated for his low testosterone level. He is recovering, and is beginning to show interest again. So the problem is no longer him, it's me. I am seeing him as being 'sexually neutral', as you so cleverly put it, and I am beginning to worry that perhaps what has been done to me psychologically cannot be reversed.

...Thank you again so much for all your help. I cannot express how grateful I am for it. :)

mmm... I'm thinking its still both you and him. You don't get to bear all the weight of this just yet. I'm guessing when he starts chasing you again, you'll agree there's more to it than you just shaking out the noise on your side.

glad he's getting hormone treatment... it can take time for it to work, and often goes ignored... his medical conditions probably helped put a spotlight on it, of course. And I still think that getting exercise, quality sleep, and knocking back those mental blocks are the next steps. I'm not a gym rat by any means, but I can very clearly feel a difference in my mood, self esteem, and sexual drive when exercising regularly... and studies support this.

you know you are having problems trusting him. Opening yourself up to rejection that has habitually been present is not pretty.

so what about ways to reconnect that aren't necessarily sex driven, but do engage sensual touch? Again... I love to share ideas through sharing books... find a simple book on sensual touch or massage... read through it... find sections that appeal to you... if he doesn't have experience with this, just focus on basic strokes or have him focus on just one part of your body with the idea that its great for relaxation and stress relief.

if he has no adversion to feet, there are great pressure points there. If that wouldn't work for him or you, work on your legs, or your back, or your neck, or your hands, etc... don't make him memorize a full body massage routine. Too much pressure and too much to memorize if new... too easy to get distracted and not spend patient time in the moment.

simply getting his skin on your skin will help mend this connection. Its what we usually do at the start of a physical relationship. Focus on that new touch. So why not now, when trying to reconnect? Make it less about sex and more about getting in each others heads. That's usually when the best sex happens anyway.

just a thought.

other ways to go about the same concepts... I like to dance, but I love to dance with my hands on the girl. So... would he do a local class on latin dance? Sure... some guys would rather have a root canal. Not all. Just tossing out ideas. One of my very best dates of all time involved a bottle of champagne with take out chicken in the park followed by time on the too tiny dance floor at the local blues bar dive. Part of the fun was it was pretty spontaneous... it just unfolded... and part was the tension it built between us, dancing to that sultry music.

*sigh* its 8am and I'm working myself up with old memories... =)

soooooo... trying not to ramble the length of a phone book again... maybe find that way to reconnect in little ways. Little wins sometimes break down big walls. Rent a room, even if its just down the road. A change of scenery alone can clear away the emotional debris sometimes.

when did he usually initiate or seem most responsive? Is that different from when you are most driven? Sometimes one partner is looking for signs at the "wrong time" from the other partner. I had a long standing struggle with one ex... she was an early moring girl, I was a night owl. When we first dated we had to see each other at night... so intimate touch always happened at night. Time goes on and our lives get completely intertwined and I start to think she has lost all interest... no... she was just moving back to her natural time... and at night, she was usually so mentally tired that she was just physically and emotionally not available or primed. It wasn't a lack of interest... it was a lack of interest in 11pm. By the time we figured out we BOTH were interested and BOTH feeling neglected, there were some barriers to fight through.

k.

so... think about ways to maybe reconnect... things you might like... some he might like... keep it simple when it doubt and try to be willing to have things go nowhere for a while without getting too frustrated.

lord help me if they ever place severe restrictions here on how long posts can be. I don't even like reading long posts. =)