[Network_Admin]

Pipes fit inside of fittings. In order to get the last piece in you have to be able to move one or the other up or down to get it in. How would you get the valve of the attached sketch, in the line if you couldn't move either pipe up or down?

Thanks for clearing that up, now it makes sense...

Ok here is how the plumbing went this morning -

Cut on shower, had immediate pressure, strong pressure, pressure slowly leveled off, and then about 5 minutes into the shower the water supply stopped, but just for 20-30 seconds, and then it was back again. So we have definitely changed the behavior. It's at least useable again.

Could it just be the water level is low in the well due to the suspected sprinkler leaks ? I think I will go after that issue next, unless you guys have other suggestions.

Thanks

[hkstroud]

Yes, let's take the sprinkler out of the system. Sounds like a delay in water getting to the tank when the pump comes on. It will be good practice if you have to put in a check valve.

Also increase well cut on pressure up about 5 lbs. In other words turn the nut on the big screw about 1/2 turn.

[Network_Admin]

Yes, let's take the sprinkler out of the system. Sounds like a delay in water getting to the tank when the pump comes on. It will be good practice if you have to put in a check valve.

Also increase well cut on pressure up about 5 lbs. In other words turn the nut on the big screw about 1/2 turn.

Things have taken a turn for the worst this morning, I woke up this morning, planning on sealing of the sprinkler system, and I had no water... Great..

Right now, the water pump breaker which is two breakers tied together in the breaker box, keeps tripping out, I have not changed a thing. If I force the breaker on, and yes it's harder than what I expect it to be, it may run for a little while, and then I can hear it snap and trip to the middle position. When the breaker turns on, I get water for a little while either until the breaker trips or the water just stops again because the pump did not cut back on...

Any ideas ? Or is it time for me to make a call ?

[jlisenbe]

Is the cable going to the pump buried? If so, then turn off the breaker and disconnect the wires at the switch. Making sure the disconnected wires are not touching anything, turn the breakers back on. If they trip again, then you know the buried cable is your problem. If not, then you probably have pump problems or possibly (not likely) a weak breaker.

BTW, I think you're barking up the wrong tree with trying to connect your sprinkler system with your water problems. It might be that the sprinkler system has leaks, but if it did, you would notice the pump cycling at times when there would be no water being used in the house. Additionally, if you spent a few minutes watching the pressure gauge, you would notice pressure falling slowly when no water was being used.

[hkstroud]

Not good news at all.

Sounds like pump has gone bad or well is dry. Leave breakers off for a while. With breakers off, start checking all the wiring. Make sure nothing is touching the wiring at the pump switch, I assume it is still uncovered. If you don't find any obvious defect in the wiring you are going to have to assume that either the pump is defective or the water level in the well has dropped. If the water level in the well has dropped the pump could be over heating and cause breaker to trip.

If you don't find an electrical problem you are going to have to make the call. Wait a while if you can. If it's water level it may build back up temporarily.

Check everything electrical above ground. Hope for electrical problem. If it's not electrical, hope for a pump problem because otherwise it's a new well.

Do you know how deep the well is?

jlisenbe,

I suspect that there is a check valve under all that electrical tape at the well head. If that is correct and you have a leaking sprinkler system, that could explain the interruption that apparently occurs when the pump comes on.

[Network_Admin]

Not good news at all.

Sounds like pump has gone bad or well is dry. Leave breakers off for a while. With breakers off, start checking all the wiring. Make sure nothing is touching the wiring at the pump switch, I assume it is still uncovered. If you don't find any obvious defect in the wiring you are going to have to assume that either the pump is defective or the water level in the well has dropped. If the water level in the well has dropped the pump could be over heating and cause breaker to trip.

If you don't find an electrical problem you are going to have to make the call. Wait a while if you can. If it's water level it may build back up temporarily.

Check everything electrical above ground. Hope for electrical problem. If it's not electrical, hope for a pump problem because otherwise it's a new well.

Do you know how deep the well is?

jlisenbe,

I suspect that there is a check valve under all that electrical tape at the well head. If that is correct and you have a leaking sprinkler system, that could explain the interruption that apparently occurs when the pump comes on.

Here is the latest update, and I thought, just thought I had the issue fixed this morning. I decided to take the pressure switch off and have a look, when I took it off and turned it over it was completely stopped up with rust, even the fitting was completely stopped up, it's hard to believe it was sensing any pressure at all. I also took the pressure gauge off, which I told you in the past post that it was not really moving. I replaced the pressure gauge since I had one, and cleaned out the pressure gauge. Put everything back together and it really seemed to be doing fine, like that was the problem, the gauge was actually changing finally. I knew that had to be the issue.

Two or Three hours later... I turn on the bathroom sink, nothing. Go outside and see there is again zero pressure on the dial, check the breaker it's in the middle like it had tripped again. Then I turned the breaker back on and still nothing. I tapped the pressure switch and the pump came on, not sure if it was my tap or it was just it's time. So I don't really know again what the issue is. I checked and tightened all of the electrical, (also unwrapped wire harness at pump head and no check valve there).

I guess I will go patch off the sprinkler at the well head, to make sure it's not bringing the well level down too low. I hope it's not the pump. I do get sand in the sand trap very quickly, maybe the water is low and I am sucking sand ? I don't know.

This is crazy...

[hkstroud]

Clogged pressure switch would cause the pump to delay coming on. Could cause it to not shut off and over work the pump. That also explains why you would say earlier that you had "strong pressure". I think that you have found your problem.
Check your operating pressures now that you have a new pressure gauge. If you are getting a lot of sand you may want to install a true sand trap. A sand trap is just another tank between the pump and the pressure tank. You pump into the center (vertical tank) and out of the top to the pressure tank.
That allows the water to sit in the tank for a while and let the sand to settle to the bottom. Sand trap would be a regular galvanized pressure tank, not a bladder tank like you currently have.

Sorry, I should have considered a blocked switch possibility earlier.

[Network_Admin]

Clogged pressure switch would cause the pump to delay coming on. Could cause it to not shut off and over work the pump. That also explains why you would say earlier that you had "strong pressure". I think that you have found your problem.
Check your operating pressures now that you have a new pressure gauge. If you are getting a lot of sand you may want to install a true sand trap. A sand trap is just another tank between the pump and the pressure tank. You pump into the center (vertical tank) and out of the top to the pressure tank.
That allows the water to sit in the tank for a while and let the sand to settle to the bottom. Sand trap would be a regular galvanized pressure tank, not a bladder tank like you currently have.

Sorry, I should have considered a blocked switch possibility earlier.

Well, I thought that was the full problem, but the blocked switch probably has damaged the pump ? Right now, we have a new switch in place, but it just continues to trip out, constantly having to reset the breaker to get any water. I guess we will have to try and get by like this until we can have someone out to look at it. When the breaker trips, and you are outside looking at the pressure switch, you can see a blue spark. Sometimes when you reset the breaker it will last for a few minutes sometimes an hour or so. Not a good chance of having anyone take a look at this on the weekend. Yea, I think I need a whole new "Updated" setup.

[Network_Admin]

Well, I thought that was the full problem, but the blocked switch probably has damaged the pump ? Right now, we have a new switch in place, but it just continues to trip out, constantly having to reset the breaker to get any water. I guess we will have to try and get by like this until we can have someone out to look at it. When the breaker trips, and you are outside looking at the pressure switch, you can see a blue spark. Sometimes when you reset the breaker it will last for a few minutes sometimes an hour or so. Not a good chance of having anyone take a look at this on the weekend. Yea, I think I need a whole new "Updated" setup.

Strangely now sometimes even when I get the breaker to stay on, and nothing is happening with the pump, if I go out and tap on the pressure switch or mainly the fixture underneath it with a wrench the pump "Wakes Up" . Does make me wonder if even my new pressure switch has reclogged again quickly? I may take it off again tomorrow and look.

If it does come to having to have someone out to replace the submersible pump, how much cost do you think I am looking at, I imagine it will be crazy.

[hkstroud]

Yes, you could still have debris in the pipe to the switch unless you cleaned it well. Where are you seeing the blue spark, at the breaker or at the switch? The switch you installed was an old one you had laying around, right?

You could be having a attack by Murphy's laws.

Shut down and drain system. Remove switch and make a direct connection to pump wires. Tape up electrical connections well with tape, move as far away as possible. Cover switch piping with bucket, turn on breakers and let pump blow out switch piping. You are going to get water on the floor. As soon as pipe opening is clear turn off breakers. Reinstall switch to block opening. Turn on breakers to see what system does. Of course turn off breaker when pressure reaches 60lbs.

This problem only showed up after you changed switches. Burned points in the switch could be reducing voltage, increasing amperage causing breaker to trip.

Edit;

The more I think about it, the more a likely a bad switch sounds.
Where in SC you located?

[Network_Admin]

Yes, you could still have debris in the pipe to the switch unless you cleaned it well. Where are you seeing the blue spark, at the breaker or at the switch? The switch you installed was an old one you had laying around, right?

You could be having a attack by Murphy's laws.

Shut down and drain system. Remove switch and make a direct connection to pump wires. Tape up electrical connections well with tape, move as far away as possible. Cover switch piping with bucket, turn on breakers and let pump blow out switch piping. You are going to get water on the floor. As soon as pipe opening is clear turn off breakers. Reinstall switch to block opening. Turn on breakers to see what system does. Of course turn off breaker when pressure reaches 60lbs.

This problem only showed up after you changed switches. Burned points in the switch could be reducing voltage, increasing amperage causing breaker to trip.

Edit;

The more I think about it, the more a likely a bad switch sounds.
Where in SC you located?

Blue Spark at the pressure switch, switch was not one laying around, it was a brand new in box Square D identical switch that Father in law bought but did not use.

Actually I was having some breaker trips before replacing the switch. It's just worse now. When the pump does stay up and running for awhile, cut in is 30 cut off is 50, so I think all of that is working.

Yea your idea may be good, to blow all the debris out if any is left. I also need an amp meter to see if one of the legs may be pulling too much current ? The breaker is a dual 20, and I suppose it could be weak, I opened the panel and tightened down on it.


Manning, SC

[hkstroud]

Not a bad idea to replace breaker. Originally from Johnsonville.

[jlisenbe]

Net, check your wiring around the switch carefully to be sure there are no breaks in the insulation that could arc to the metal frame of the switch. If the grey cover is on the switch, you should not be seeing a spark when the switch points close. That sounds strange.

As long as the little tube going to the switch is even halfway open, the switch will work. It only needs pressure, not volume.

I had a breaker throwing one time. Replaced the buried cable (the old one was plainly nicked up) and problem went away for a while. Then, we began having the same problem. A little trouble shooting isolated the problem to the wire going down the well to the pump. It was just a small area, the size of nail head, that had lost insulation, but that was enough. It would arc against the metal casing. The wiring was old, so that didn't help. That's why I'm really suspicious of your electrical cable. In fact, if you have enough slack, I'd cut back the cable a foot or so and go with wire which hasn't been pulled and bent so much coming into and out of the switch.

[Network_Admin]

Net, check your wiring around the switch carefully to be sure there are no breaks in the insulation that could arc to the metal frame of the switch. If the grey cover is on the switch, you should not be seeing a spark when the switch points close. That sounds strange.

As long as the little tube going to the switch is even halfway open, the switch will work. It only needs pressure, not volume.

I had a breaker throwing one time. Replaced the buried cable (the old one was plainly nicked up) and problem went away for a while. Then, we began having the same problem. A little trouble shooting isolated the problem to the wire going down the well to the pump. It was just a small area, the size of nail head, that had lost insulation, but that was enough. It would arc against the metal casing. The wiring was old, so that didn't help. That's why I'm really suspicious of your electrical cable. In fact, if you have enough slack, I'd cut back the cable a foot or so and go with wire which hasn't been pulled and bent so much coming into and out of the switch.

Monday morning, I woke up with no water again, so me being the bright one, I went out to the pressure switch and tapped on it so that maybe I could get a shower in before work. Lucky me as the fixture below the pressure switch cracked, and water was spewing everywhere. That's all I could take, lol...

I called a local plumber, had him out, explained the situation and left him with it to go to work. I got home last night and everything was working, he had re-configured the piping around the pressure switch, as there was not much room to work with, and I saw that he had a new electric wire run from the presssure switch to the pump head. So it may have been a bad wire like you said. So far so good anyway, I have not spoken to him yet, I guess he hooked up the new wire and wanted to see if the issue will still happen. From the time I got home last night, through this morning, it was working without issue.

We will see how it goes.

Thanks