[Golden_Girl]

Sndbay, the word "begotton" was referred to more than one. Sorry, but we are all still entitled to our own opinion, hence the question being asked was "Who is Jesus to you?".

The fact is, that to call Him the only Son of God would make the Bible contradict itself, for He is not the only Son of God, and certainly not the "one and only" Son of God.

Angels are several times called the sons of God (e.g., Job 38:7) since they had no fathers, being directly created by God. Likewise, Adam was called the son of God (Luke 3:38), because he was directly created. The same applies even to fallen angels (Genesis 6:2), and even to Satan (Job 1:6), because they also were created beings.

The term is also used in a spiritual sense, of course, for those who have become "new creations" in Christ Jesus by faith (II Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:10; etc.). In this sense, we also are "sons of God" (e.g. I John 3:2) by special creation?not physically but spiritually.

Psalm 2:6-8 (King James Version)
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

From the NIV:

Psalm 2:6-8 (New International Version)
6 "I have installed my King [a]
On Zion, my holy hill."
7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :
He said to me, "You are my Son [b] ;
today I have become your Father. [c]
8 Ask of me,
And I will make the nations your inheritance,
The ends of the earth your possession.

Can the word Son have a symbolic meaning? Yes. The word υιος (or huios, word #5207 in Strong's Concordance) has been used in a symbolic sense in these passages, among others:

To them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder
—Mark 3:17
Adam, the son of God.
—Luke 3:38
Sndbay:
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus
—Galatians 3:26

"For God so loved the world
that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him
shall not perish
but have eternal life."
—John 3:16, New International Version (NIV), 1973.
The NIV adds as a footnote,
3:16 Or his only begotten Son

In The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia in Five Volumes, 1975, Vol A-C, p. 510, we find:
BEGOTTEN (BEGETTING) Various forms of the roots and "beget," are frequent in the OT both in the literal sense (Deut 23:8) and the metaphorical (Job 38:28; of the deposit of dew). Psalm 2:7 uses the word of God's relationship to the Messianic king. Perhaps, in its application to a Davidic king, this was originally divine "adoption" to sonship; if so cf. Galatians 4:5. When understood prophetically of Christ, the word passes far beyond the adoptionist sense. In the NT, the literal sense is still common (e.g. Matt 1:1-16) but the metaphorical use is greatly extended. For instance, in I Corinthians 4:15 an evangelist may be said to have "begotten" his converts to new spiritual life. Corresponding to this "begotten" is the usual word to describe the relation of the believers to God (John 1:13, 1 Pet 1:3, etc.) This means that Christians are , "children" of God (John 1:12).
Christ, by contrast is , "son" of God, to John, but this verb is not used in the NT to describe God's relationship to Him. "Only-begotten" (1:14, etc.) is a mistranslation in older VSS of "only," "unique" prob. corresponding to Heb. , of which "beloved" is another NT tr. See also SON OF GOD.
BIBLIOGRAPHY. G. Abbot-Smith, Manual Greek Lexicon of the NT (1937); W. F. Arndt and F. W. Gingrich, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (1957). [R. A. COLE]

-There are a number of passages the word "begotten" is used, but it is usually metaphorically, and never literal when associated with God.
-There are a few more in the King James Version, but in those other places it is a mistranslation of monogenes according to the unanimous opinion among the scholars of the Greek language.

The term "son of God" too is used in a variety of ways in the Holy Bible. As creator, God is the "Father" of Adam and of all mankind (Luke 3:38; Isaiah 64:8; Malachi 2:10; etc.). However, a more specific "Father-son" relationship is achieved by the gracious choice of the Father and the faithful obedience and service of the son, not by creation and certainly not by procreation. In this sense, the following are some of those referred to as "son(s) of God" in the Bible:

1. The people chosen by God (Exodus 4:22f.; Jeremiah 31:9,20; Hosea 11:1; Romans 8:14; II Corinthians 6:18; Galatians 3:26; Hebrews 2:10; Revelation 21:7)
2. Heavenly beings (Job 1:6)
3. Kings and rulers (II Samuel 7:14; Psalm 2:7; 82:6; 89:26f.)
4. Pious, godly individuals (Matthew 5:9; Luke 6:35)

"Matthew 1:3 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
... and your point is?

The Quran states: "The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: 'Be.' And he was." (Qur'an 3:59).

(Remember) When the angels said O Mary! God Gives thee Good News of a son through a Word from Him! His name shall be the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who Are Granted Nearness to God! (3.45)

And he shall speak to the people in the cradle, and when of middle age, and he shall be of The Righteous (3.46)

She said My Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me ? He Said, That is as it shall be. God Creates what He Pleases. When He decrees a thing He says to it "Be" and it is! (3.47)

Quran 112:1-4: "He is the One and only GOD. "The Absolute GOD."Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten."None equals Him."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic...f_Mary]Islamic view of Mary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.islamfortoday.com/galvan03.htm]Jesus and The Virgin Mary in Islam - By Juan Galvan

[galveston]

Hi, Golden Girl.

John 14:1
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
(KJV)

Luke 6:46
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
(KJV)

I don't think you have dealt with this yet.

John 8:58
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(KJV)

Of course, if you do not accept the words in the Bilbe, then I have nothing else to offer.

Maranatha

PS: Jesus' resurrection and His promise to return for His saints shows Him to be far more than a prophet, priest, or earthly king. Think about it.

[arcura]

cadillac59,
I also that God KNEW us before we were born or in the womb.
If fact He knew us as persons.
Therefore I also believe that an abortion kills a person.
You may not believe that, but it is what I believe.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Golden_Girl]

Galveston, I'm thinking you didn't read my posts... but anyway you are off topic. The topic isn't about how to make people convert, so you must learn to respect my opinion and move on.

[galveston]

Well, GG,
You quote Scriptures, I quote Scriptures.

Perhaps we should both move on.

Maranatha

[sndbay]

Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

[Golden_Girl]

Well, GG,
You quote Scriptures, I quote Scriptures.

Perhaps we should both move on.

Maranatha

I agree, as they are both scriptures

[arcura]

It is very good that Scriptures have been quoted here on this subject.
Jesus Christ IS my Lord and Savior along with The Father and The Holy Spirit in trinity.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[classyT]

Fred,

Jesus Christ is MY Lord and savior and because of him, the Holy spirit dwells inside of me and one day I will be in the presence of the Father and His Son... the Lion from the Tribe of Judah! What a day that will be!

[arcura]

classyT,
Yes what a day that will be for all good Christians.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[adam7gur]

Golden girl
It is written that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.
Who is this Word? If you say it is the Father then think, does the Father have a beginning?
No He does not, then who is this Word?
It is His begotten Son, His name is the Word.The Father's Son's name is the Word as written in the book of Revelation also!
It is written that man was made in their image. Who are they? If you say it is the majestic plural of the Father think, does the Father have an image?Does He have any kind of shape,limits... No He does not!
But man was created in their image!
It is written that no one can see God and live, yet Abraham saw God,Isaac saw God, Jacob saw God,Moses saw God,Daniel saw God,Isaiah saw God,Manohe and his wife both saw God and they all lived.So who did they see?
''Son of'' in Hebrew has also the meaning of ''in the image of '', so God's begotten Son the Word has His image and in His image we are made.The Word has the image of His Father and we have the image of the Word,so we are made in their image!
In Hebrew there is this antonym ATAH/HU which is translated in English YOU/HE.
Many people in the OT when got in touch with God said to Him, '' Lord, ATAH/HU ( YOU/HE ) are God '' which indicates that they knew that more than one person is called God, because it is like I am talking to you and telling you that you and someone else are human f.e. yet as the first of all commandments declare YHVH ELOHIM YHVH ECHAD, The Lord your Gods is one united Lord, for ELOHIM is the plural of EL which means God.ECHAD means united one as used in the Jewish text referring to the union of a man and a woman or in the union of day and night!
So, who is Jesus? He is The Word incarnated, the image of the invisble God, God's begotten Son.
Is God's Son less God than His Father is?
If my son is less human than myself then God's begotten Son is also less God than His Father, but we know that humans give birth ONLY to humans and as God says this is good!
So when Yeshuah claimed that God is His Father He insantly made Himself equal to His Father and that's why He was crucified.
Does Yeshuah claim that His Father is greater than Him? Yes He does!
Do I claim that my father is greater than me?Yes I do,because I would not be without him!
Yeshuah is the Word and everything is made through Him and for Him.
Why did His Father made us?Because He wants a bride for His Son!!
So is Yeshuah God?
Oh YES, there is no doubt about that!

[arcura]

adam7gur,
Well said.
Fred

[Golden_Girl]

Golden girl
It is written that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.
Who is this Word? If you say it is the Father then think, does the Father have a beginning?
No He does not, then who is this Word?
It is His begotten Son, His name is the Word.The Father's Son's name is the Word as written in the book of Revelation also!
It is written that man was made in their image. Who are they? If you say it is the majestic plural of the Father think, does the Father have an image?Does He have any kind of shape,limits...No He does not!
But man was created in their image!
It is written that noone can see God and live, yet Abraham saw God,Isaac saw God, Jacob saw God,Moses saw God,Daniel saw God,Isaiah saw God,Manohe and his wife both saw God and they all lived.So who did they see?
''Son of'' in Hebrew has also the meaning of ''in the image of '', so God's begotten Son the Word has His image and in His image we are made.The Word has the image of His Father and we have the image of the Word,so we are made in their image!
In Hebrew there is this antonym ATAH/HU which is translated in English YOU/HE.
Many people in the OT when got in touch with God said to Him, '' Lord, ATAH/HU ( YOU/HE ) are God '' which indicates that they knew that more than one person is called God, because it is like I am talking to you and telling you that you and someone else are human f.e. yet as the first of all commandments declare YHVH ELOHIM YHVH ECHAD, The Lord your Gods is one united Lord, for ELOHIM is the plural of EL which means God.ECHAD means united one as used in the Jewish text reffering to the union of a man and a woman or in the union of day and night!
So, who is Jesus? He is The Word incarnated, the image of the invisble God, God's begotten Son.
Is God's Son less God than His Father is?
If my son is less human than myself then God's begotten Son is also less God than His Father, but we know that humans give birth ONLY to humans and as God says this is good!
So when Yeshuah claimed that God is His Father He insantly made Himself equal to His Father and that's why He was crucified.
Does Yeshuah claim that His Father is greater than Him? Yes He does!
Do I claim that my father is greater than me?Yes I do,because I would not be without him!
Yeshuah is the Word and everything is made through Him and for Him.
Why did His Father made us?Because He wants a bride for His Son!!!
So is Yeshuah God?
Oh YES, there is no doubt about that!

Adam7gur are you Jewish?

Which sons of God... or "begotten" sons? As there were many:

Did you know that God also "begotten" David? Israel was called "Son" as well as God's first born. All of these things were written in the bible, but why do so many desire to ignore these verses:confused:? It is fine that you disagree with me, but why do you disagree with your bible? Can you answer that or continue to ignore what it states?

Psalm 2:7 "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his "Son", but also had made him his begotten Son.

Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah (Yahweh), Israel is my son, even my firstborn." Here we see in this verse that Israel is not only God's so called "Son", but also His first born! Does this mean that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Israel? Does it mean that we must worship Israel as Jehovah or Allah? Of course not!

Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Ephraim in this verse means Israel. This verse is similar to Exodus 4:22.

No where in the Old Testament prophesies (Torah) the messiah was called 'the only begotten son of God. Christians are and will continue to add to the Bible like they have always done. This is a New Testament addition, not a Old Testament prophecy.

"Seth is the son of Adam' and that "Adam is the son of God." (Lk 3:36)

"Son of God" is same as "Servant of God" in Hebrew. Jesus Did Not claim to be God, or even equal to God. When called Jesus, "Good master" he replied only God is Good and to keep His Commandments.

"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 19:17

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." Mark 10:18

The term "son of God" too is used in a variety of ways in the Holy Bible. As creator, God is the "Father" of Adam and of all mankind (Luke 3:38; Isaiah 64:8; Malachi 2:10; etc.). However, a more specific "Father-son" relationship is achieved by the gracious choice of the Father and the faithful obedience and service of the son, not by creation and certainly not by procreation. In this sense, the following are some of those referred to as "son(s) of God" in the Bible:

1. The people chosen by God (Exodus 4:22f.; Jeremiah 31:9,20; Hosea 11:1; Romans 8:14; II Corinthians 6:18; Galatians 3:26; Hebrews 2:10; Revelation 21:7)
2. Heavenly beings (Job 1:6)
3. Kings and rulers (II Samuel 7:14; Psalm 2:7; 82:6; 89:26f.)
4. Pious, godly individuals (Matthew 5:9; Luke 6:35)

... I know, well said GG ;)

[arcura]

Golden_Girl,
I think that Adam is not disagreeing with the bible at all.
God begot all of us but Jesus was begotten in a far different way.
We are all sons and daughters of God, but Jesus is God's son in a much different way.
Jesus is the word of God made flesh, we are not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[arcura]

Golden_Girl,
I think that Adam is not disagreeing with the bible at all.
God begot all of us but Jesus was begotten in a far different way.
We are all sons and daughters of God, but Jesus is God's son in a much different way.
Jesus is the word of God made flesh, we are not.
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

[adam7gur]

Adam7gur are you Jewish??

Which sons of God...or "begotten" sons? As there were many:

Did you know that God also "begotten" David? Israel was clled "Son" as well as God's first born. All of these things were written in the bible, but why do so many desire to ignore these verses:confused:? It is fine that you dissagree with me, but why do you dissagree with your bible? Can you answer that or continue to ignore what it states?

Psalm 2:7 "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his "Son", but also had made him his begotten Son.

Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn." Here we see in this verse that Israel is not only God's so called "Son", but also His first born! Does this mean that Jehovah is Israel? Does it mean that we must worship Israel as Jehovah or Allah? Of course not !!!

Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Ephraim in this verse means Israel. This verse is similar to Exodus 4:22.

No where in Old Testament prophesies (Torah) the messiah was called 'the only begotten son of God. Christians are and will continue to add to the Bible like they have always done. This is a New Testament addition, not a Old Testament prophecy.

"Seth is the son of Adam' and that "Adam is the son of God." (Lk 3:36)

"Son of God" is same as "Servant of God" in Hebrew. Jesus Did Not claim to be God, or even equal to God. When called Jesus, "Good master" he replied only God is Good and to keep His Commandments.

"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 19:17

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." Mark 10:18

The term "son of God" too is used in a variety of ways in the Holy Bible. As creator, God is the "Father" of Adam and of all mankind (Luke 3:38; Isaiah 64:8; Malachi 2:10; etc.). However, a more specific "Father-son" relationship is achieved by the gracious choice of the Father and the faithful obedience and service of the son, not by creation and certainly not by procreation. In this sense, the following are some of those referred to as "son(s) of God" in the Bible:

1. The people chosen by God (Exodus 4:22f.; Jeremiah 31:9,20; Hosea 11:1; Romans 8:14; II Corinthians 6:18; Galatians 3:26; Hebrews 2:10; Revelation 21:7)
2. Heavenly beings (Job 1:6)
3. Kings and rulers (II Samuel 7:14; Psalm 2:7; 82:6; 89:26f.)
4. Pious, godly individuals (Matthew 5:9; Luke 6:35)

...I know, well said GG ;)

Golden girl
You asked for an answear, so here it comes.
You quoted psalm 2 and you claim that the Lord speaks about David in that psalm but as you wrote '' Christ '' is not a name but it points out to what Jesus is. In Greek , and by the way , I am Greek, ''Christ'' means the ''anointed one'' and Psalm 2:2 says The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed!
You say that God is calling David His begotten because it is written Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Verse 8 says Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
We all know that David has not been given the heathen for his inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for his possession , because they were given to Jesus alone, so it is clear that God is not talking about David here but about Jesus.
The Psalm goes on like this.. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Do you still believe that this is about David?Do you think that God blesses all those who put their trust on David or on Jesus?
Is Israel God's son and His begotten?
You Know that the Bible clearly states that God called Abraham and through Abraham God created Israel, so why do you find it strange that Israel is called God's son even His first born or begotten since all the rest of us who are saved are saved through Israel because it is written that salvation comes through the Jews.

You say that nowhere in the OT is the Son called begotten but this is wrong.Psalm 2 proves you wrong and I may add to that the following Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
The Son's name , for He is called so , is Mighty God, Everlasting Father.If you think that the term ''begotten son'' is too much for the Son, what do you think about these names of the Son?

You quoted "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." Mark 10:
Don't you think that all those Torah students that came to Jesus and called Him good, did not know that only God is good? Yes they did know that, still they called Jesus good and Jesus says in other words '' if you call me good and you know that God is the only good,can't you see that I AM God?''
They saw that Jesus is good still they could not believe that He is God!
So as you see I am not at all dissagreeing with my Bible 'cause my bible is my faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.That is my Bible and not just some ink on paper. I AM the son of the free and not the son of the slave. I AM Isaak, not Ishmael! Galatians 4 :22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."
You will never inheritance the blessings of the son of the free until you believe in Jesus Christ and become son of the free!
May God bless you !

[arcura]

adam7gur
Excellent answer ti her; much better than mine.
Yours is more to the point.
Fred

[adam7gur]

adam7gur
Excellent answer ti her; much better than mine.
Yours is more to the point.
Fred

I stand by you brother!

[arcura]

Thanks, and I with you.
Peace and kindness with pax Christi,
Fred

[Golden_Girl]

Hmmm... yeah I knew that you were unable to answer the question. Too challenging perhaps :p oh well...