[JoeCanada76]

Roflmasof.

[artlady]

I do believe that we are closer to the End times than we were, say a few hundred years ago,

Find a time in history where man did not believe the very same thing you are saying.

[N0help4u]

I explained that all ready,
The Bible says that people through history will believe they are in the end times
BUT the end times can not happen until everything is lined up. Everything was not lined up then... IT IS NOW.

[paraclete]

I explained that all ready,
The Bible says that people through history will believe they are in the end times
BUT the end times can not happen until everything is lined up. Everything was not lined up then........IT IS NOW.

The day has come the walrus said, ah, that is another tale. Yes tomorrow the mad madhi will appear and ride into Jerusalem on his camel and all shall know the end has come.

[Just Dahlia]

Hello again:

End, schmend.... Don't go... Who're we gonna sell our schlock to?

excon

I have too much to sell and there's not enough time:eek:

[galveston]

Well, I posted this before, but the next signpost to the end of this age (not the world)is the formation of a 10 nation coalition from inside what was the Roman Empire.

[ETWolverine]

I know that this is a bit off topic, but I would like to point out one little fact that has always puzzled me about the "end of days" discussions.

While there are some Christians who seem to be trying to track the "end of days" and are counting down the days left of life on Earth, Judaism tends to take a different tac. We try to follow the number of days left and track the calendar until the Coming of Messiah and the beginning of a new era of Peace, Holiness, Celebration, and Connection to G-d.

One group is trying to track the END of the world, the other is tracking the BEGINNING of a New Era of Hope. One is hunting for death, the other is hunting for life.

Why the fundamental difference between these two philosophies?

Elliot

[galveston]

I know that this is a bit off topic, but I would like to point out one little fact that has always puzzled me about the "end of days" discussions.

While there are some Christians who seem to be trying to track the "end of days" and are counting down the days left of life on Earth, Judaism tends to take a different tac. We try to follow the number of days left and track the calendar until the Coming of Messiah and the beginning of a new era of Peace, Holiness, Celebration, and Connection to G-d.

One group is trying to track the END of the world, the other is tracking the BEGINNING of a New Era of Hope. One is hunting for death, the other is hunting for life.

Why the fundamental difference between these two philosophies?

Elliot

Not so, Elliot.

We Christians are looking for the end of the age of human government and the RETURN of Messiah.

I know that you don't believe that Jesus IS your Messiah, but hopefully, you will soon come to that realization.

So you see, we aren't looking for death, but LIFE, just as you are. Our goals are just the same.

Thank you for bringing this up.

[N0help4u]

I know that this is a bit off topic, but I would like to point out one little fact that has always puzzled me about the "end of days" discussions.

While there are some Christians who seem to be trying to track the "end of days" and are counting down the days left of life on Earth, Judaism tends to take a different tac. We try to follow the number of days left and track the calendar until the Coming of Messiah and the beginning of a new era of Peace, Holiness, Celebration, and Connection to G-d.

One group is trying to track the END of the world, the other is tracking the BEGINNING of a New Era of Hope. One is hunting for death, the other is hunting for life.

Why the fundamental difference between these two philosophies?

Elliot

I don't really see the difference. In the sense that we are looking to the end when Jesus' second coming which to the Jew will be the first coming. We look forward to the second coming which will be the end as we know it... no more pain and suffering.

[Maggie 3]

We are all living in end times because our days are numbered.When we die there
Is no more time we will be in eternity.
Rev. 3:10 & 11, "Because you have patiently obeyed Me despite the persrcution,
therefor I will protect you from the time of Great Tribulation and temptation, which will come upon the world to test everyone alive. Look I am coming soon! Hold tightly to the little strength you have-- so that no one will take away your crown."

Rev. 22:12 See, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me, to repay everone according to the deeds he has done. 13. I am the A an the Z, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. 14 Blessed forever are all who are washing their robes, to have the right to enter though the gates of the city, and to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life.
"Outside the city are those who strayed away from God, and the sorcerers and the
immoral and murderers and idolaters, and all who love to lie, and do so."

The Lord coming can be any day, tomorrow, the day after or right now!
Wake up!

Maggie 3

[excon]

Hello M:

Go preach to somebody who cares!

excon

[TheCitadel]

People who call themselves christian but try to predict the end times are foolish and obviously haven't read the bible. According to scripture only God knows when he's going to allow the earth to be destroyed... we don't we can't even guess. It's actually a joy to think about the end of days cause I won't be here... I'll be in heaven with God like he's promised. The apostle paul said "to live is christ and to die is gain"so the rapture for christians is the most AMAZING thing that could happen way better than death... for the lost world it would be something to fret about because they just don't see it coming.

[ETWolverine]

Saph and Gal,

I accept the correction.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

I do believe that we are closer to the End times than we were, say a few hundred years ago...

That would seem to be a matter of logic.

If you believe that an event or set of events called "End of Times" must occur, and if that event or set of events has not yet occurred, then you are AUTOMATICALLY closer to it today than you were several hundred years ago.

Given entropy, we are closer to the end of the universe than we were several. Hundred years ago too.

We are, in fact, closer today to EVERY EVENT that has not yet occurred than we were several hundred years ago.

I'm not sure that that constitutes a logical basis for the existence of an "end of times" as described in Christian theology, or "the Geulah" (lit: "The Redemption" in Hebrew) as described in Jewish theology.

I can tell you that in Jewish history there have been a number of times when the Geulah was predicted to occur. In several cases, lots of people hung their hats on those predictions of a date-certain for the Geulah, and when those predictions didn't come to pass, it caused all sorts of trouble... including crises of faith, rebellion, war, and other suffering.

The general belief among Orthodox Jews these days is that there WILL be a Geulah... but as for when and how, we leave that up to G-d. We don't generally try to predict a date anymore, and such predictions are somewhat discouraged (though not particularly strongly).

From our perspective, if we are doing what we are supposed to as good people and good Jews (as that is the perspective from which I speak), G-d will let us know in his own way and in his own time where we need to be to meet and greet the Messiah and start the Geulah. If we are do the right thing ALL THE TIME (within our limited abilities as human beings, of course) we don't need to worry about the timing of the Geulah, because we'll ALWAYS be ready. We don't need to predict it to be a part of it. We just need to follow G-d's Law to the best of our personal abilities. So such predictions are a very low-priority item of theological speculation within Orthodox Judaism.

If you start from the pespective of trying to do the right thing all the time and follow the boyscout motto of "always be prepared" in the spiritual sense, regardless of timing, then "being ready" is no longer a matter of predicting the future. It becomes a matter of living life to the best of your ability in the present.

Just a thought from an outside perspective.

Elliot

[firmbeliever]

If you start from the pespective of trying to do the right thing all the time and follow the boyscout motto of "always be prepared" in the spiritual sense, regardless of timing, then "being ready" is no longer a matter of predicting the future. It becomes a matter of living life to the best of your ability in the present.

Just a thought from an outside perspective.

Elliot

This is so true.

If we are living the best all the time (as you said as humanly possible), there is no need for worrying about predicting an event that we know will occur when it has to.

Mine was an outside perspective too, considering this question was aimed at Christians.:)

[zac0118]

There are many who think that they can tell when it is coming but nobody actually does. I think I'll just throw this out here. You see the bible says that when Jesus takes his church of real believers on earth then there will be a time, and a time, and a time, and a half of tribulation for those left behind some have said that because of an earlier mentioning of a time that this should be 7 years a time being 2 years but when Jesus takes his to heaven in the twinkling of an eye that is not when it starts it will actually start whenever there is someone in power who makes a big peace treaty with Jerusalem of course we might not know about that fro weeks but then after that there are the horsemen of the apocalypse the seven scroll judgments the seven trumpet judgments and the seven bowl/vial judgments which will all take place leading up to a great battle between the tribulation saints (Christians of the time) and the Antichrist

[paraclete]

there are many who think that they can tell when it is coming but nobody actually does. i think i'll just throw this out here. you see the bible says that when Jesus takes his church of real believers on earth then there will be a time, and a time, and a time, and a half of tribulation for those left behind some have said that because of an earlier mentioning of a time that this should be 7 years a time being 2 years but when Jesus takes his to heaven in the twinkling of an eye that is not when it starts it will actually start whenever there is someone in power who makes a big peace treaty with Jerusalem of course we might not know about that fro weeks but then after that there are the horsemen of the apocalypse the seven scroll judgments the seven trumpet judgments and the seven bowl/vial judgments which will all take place leading up to a great battle between the tribulation saints (Christians of the time) and the Antichrist

Christians have been debating the end times since Christianity began. Even the apostles didn't understand Christ's prophesy about the Temple, which had a double meaning but within a generation times of tribulation truly came upon the Jews. The question is was Jesus talking to Jews or Christians? And then we have John's revelation talking about an entirely different tribulation which we would appear to be in the middle of now but are our times any worse than those of a century ago or those in the seventh century and once again was Christ talking to Christians or the Jews? Which part of the three and a half years are we in, have they begun with a count down to 2012?

[galveston]

Christians have been debating the end times since Christianity began. Even the apostles didn't understand Christ's prophesy about the Temple, which had a double meaning but within a generation times of tribulation truly came upon the Jews. The question is was Jesus talking to Jews or Christians? and then we have John's revelation talking about an entirely different tribulation which we would appear to be in the middle of now but are our times any worse than those of a century ago or those in the seventh century and once again was Christ talking to Christians or the Jews? which part of the three and a half years are we in, have they begun with a count down to 2012?

The Great Tribulation is the final (70 th) week of Daniel's prophecy. As such, it will have to begin with the signing of a treaty between Anti-Christ and Israel

Since The Anti-Christ has not yet been revealed, much less assumed power, we know that we are not in the Great Tribulation periiod.

Will we have tribulations before then? Of course!

Mankind has always had tribulations, but the Great Tribulation stands alone in prophecy, and is the last before the actual physical return of Christ to planet Earth.

[paraclete]

The Great Tribulation is the final (70 th) week of Daniel's prophecy. As such, it will have to begin with the signing of a treaty between Anti-Christ and Israel

Since The Anti-Christ has not yet been revealed, much less assumed power, we know that we are not in the Great Tribulation periiod.

Will we have tribulations before then? Of course!

Mankind has always had tribulations, but the Great Tribulation stands alone in prophecy, and is the last before the actual physical return of Christ to planet Earth.

The question I have about all of this is are we talking about mankind or are we talking about Israel and the Jews What defines a tribulation? Was the holocaust a tribulation? And does it stand apart from the Great Tribulation? Was the destruction of the Jewish people in 70 AD and 135AD any less a tribulation or fulfillment of the prophesy

[galveston]

The question I have about all of this is are we talking about mankind or are we talking about Israel and the Jews What defines a tribulation? was the holocaust a tribulation? and does it stand apart from the Great Tribulation? was the destruction of the Jewish people in 70 AD and 135AD any less a tribulation or fulfillment of the prophesy

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD was the fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy about that destruction, and He said it would happen witin that generation, and it did.

I believe that the Great Tribulation will be world-wide, but there will be features of it that apply to Israel only.

There is no way that you could have that amount of turbulence in the Middle East without everyone being affected.

It is also called the time of Levi's cleansing, so the focus will indeed be on Israel.