[artlady]

If I met you on the street and I needed a hand,do you reach out?
Love ie' God in action?

[artlady]

It is simply not possible that all paths lead to God because by saying so, you are denying the Bible and Christianity as a path to God because the God of the Bible claims exclusivity:

I have Faith and my faith tells me that Jesus Christ is my savior and I believe that he gets me.He knows my good and my bad and I have only a few worries about seeing him right away.
I may have to do some purgatory time,I'm cool with that.
Never assume you are above anyone,it is not your judgment.

[adam7gur]

Some time ago, a girl posted a question on one of these boards and said she wanted to find a way to get out of evolution/science class because it was against her Christian faith. I advised her to stay in the class and learn all she could and to get a good grade. The more she knows about something, the better off she will be in arguing against it, if that's what she thinks she needs to do.

I was advising a coworker about getting his short story edited and published. It centered around the Baha'i faith. I knew nothing about that religion, so I dug into studying about it. Did I join their church? No. Did I improve the way he told the short story? Yes. Plus I have his respect more than I did before, and am closer to bringing him into Christianity (if he so chooses). (Baha'i has some similarities, and I know what they are. Do you?)

The same with other religions -- the more one knows about them, the more informed one is and can more reasonably and cogently discuss with someone who believes in one of them. My coworker is Hindu. I've learned a lot about Hinduism by talking with her, listening to her, reading about Hinduism. Have I become a Hindu? No. But I have her love and attention and respect now, and am a lot closer to bringing her to Christianity (if she so chooses) than if I had pounded her over the head with the Old Testament.

Like I had said, talk with others about their religions and learn about those religions. It will give you the best advantage as a missionary to them.

I see what you mean...
1 Corinthians 9:19 For being free from all I made myself servant to all, that I might gain the greater number;

20 and I became to the Jews as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to those under law as under law, not being myself under law, that I might gain those under law;

21 to those without law as without law, not being without law to God, but under law to Christ, that I might gain those without law;

22 to the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak: to all I became all things, that by all means I might save some.

Maybe classyT means that this blessed behavior comes from someone who does know Jesus and you advising somoene who does not know Jesus to do somehow so,amazes her.
Of course you did not say to that person to relate to all those people to gain them in Christ but only to expend his/hers view.
Yes I see good in many different people, but now that I know Christ I can only point to Him when someone is asking for the way.
But this is not a rule, that we all have to follow.We are all different and we all have our own personal path.God is able to find us wherever we are if we just seek for Him!
Huge subject and I am too small even to express myself.
Thank God it is not up to me , but it is He who deals with it!

[classyT]

I have Faith and my faith tells me that Jesus Christ is my savior and I believe that he gets me.He knows my good and my bad and I have only a few worries about seeing him right away.
I may have to do some purgatory time,I'm cool with that.
Never assume you are above anyone,it is not your judgment.

Artlady,

I really shouldn't speak for Tj3 but I have to say... I don'tbelieve he assumes he is above anyone. Geesh, we are all here born in the same human condition. I believe that the Bibe is clear that unfortunately all paths Do NOT lead to the Father. I only go by what it says because frankly, it be a whole lot easier if they did, that is how MY MIND THINKS. It isn't what God says though. :)

[classyT]

Maybe classyT means that this blessed behavior comes from someone who does know Jesus and you advising somoene who does not know Jesus to do somehow so,amazes her.

Yes. Glad you understood me. It did amaze me and I personally wouldn't do it. But Jesushelper had a point last night and I am willing to let God be God in his or her life. After all, we are all different.

[Tj3]

I'll help. From straightdope.com --

First, I am not sure that I would pit something called "straightdope" against credible historical sources, but let's move on...

[I]The first officially sanctioned canon of the New Testament was attempted by Irenaeus of Lyon.

"Officially sanctioned" - Interesting term. This does not mean that the NT did not exist prior to that date. And since the OT pre-existed the NT, the fact is that by the end of the 1st century, the Bible was there, and agreement on what the canonical books were was almost identical to whet we have in most churches today.

[Tj3]

No, he isn't. Read that again carefully.

I did - and that is the clear implication. YOU read again carefully.

[Tj3]

I have Faith and my faith tells me that Jesus Christ is my savior and I believe that he gets me.He knows my good and my bad and I have only a few worries about seeing him right away.

If "your faith" tells you that there are many way to God, and scripture says there is only one, then your faith is wrong because it contradicts God's word. Now whether YOU are saved, I am not going to say because I don't know your heart, but I do know that the claim that there are many ways to God is a false gospel because God's waord says that it is.

I may have to do some purgatory time,I'm cool with that.
Never assume you are above anyone,it is not your judgment.

There is no purgatory.

And I am not above you or anyone. We are all sinners who have fallen short of the glory of God and need to have the blood of Jesus wash away our sins in order to be saved.

[DrJ]

I gave the quote - if you don't like it, take it up with the author of the Bible.

I don't deny the quote that Timothy wrote.. I do question your interpretation that it only refers to the books which the Church has brainwashed so many into believing are the unscathed words of God... untouched by the evilness of man.

Books that were not put in the Bible are not part of the Bible. Your comment assumes that God did not know the makeup of His own Bible.

My comment assumes that of all the works that God inspired, these are the only ones that the Church put into the Bible... as manipulated as they are to serve the "higher" purpose of the Church (ie controlling the nations).

No, God.

No, the Church.

Actually, we know quite well. The OT was well defined by then and much iof the NT is defined as scripture within the NT by other books of scripture.

Of course the NT that we were all given by the church hundreds of years after it was written was combed through as precisely as possible so that it would not contradict itself.

I'd love to see your validation for that claim!!

The Codex Sinaiticus.

And what is your validation that anything existed earlier?

[Fr_Chuck]

Actually no, the NT we have now is very close to the original versions. And I can't see how they were to be used to control since unlike the Old Testement they are not a group of laws and restrictions. In fact they even said to follow and obey the government over you, which was a variety of governments, many in conflict with each other.

The simple fact is that the NT that we have today was about what was there within 100 years after the death of Christ. A few local churches had some extra writings, a few churches did not have all the other churches did. But they were shared. It was not till latter they were combined in to one writing.

[DrJ]

Dr. D,

For me it isn't about fear. It is all about trust and faith. Geesh, if I didn't have the Lord to rely on everyday about everything...i would be in fear.

My point was that so many are taught and believe in God through fear... the fear of Eternal Damnation... the fear of not receiving the gift of Everlasting Life.

This goes back to the idea of another world where God punished those that believed in Him with Eternal Damnation... because loving the Lord your Father should have nothing to do with your selfish desire of Everlasting Life. If that were the case, would you still devout your life to Him (<--rhetorical question as I already know that no one here would ever admit to the rest of us if they wouldn't.. but its food for thought)

I'm confused by you. I'm not sure of your point. Do you believe all paths evidentually lead to God?

My beliefs are the not the point. The point is that there is so much in Religion today that contradicts the Truth and Love of God's Word. Even the Bible itself is quoted to prove these points.

The simple point is there... plain as day. Belief in Him and you shall be saved. But then there is all this fear based fluff, that I believe was added by the Church through the years before the Bible's actual release... "but do this and be cursed.. do that and you'll go to Hell... think like this and God will turn His back on you." What better way to control the huddled masses than to manipulate their own beliefs and use it against them...

[Tj3]

I don't deny the quote that Timothy wrote.. I do question your interpretation that it only refers to the books which the Church has brainwashed so many into believing are the unscathed words of God... untouched by the evilness of man.

That sounds to me like you deny that God was able to define His own Bible and was unable to preserve His word. It also sounds like you deny the evidence going back thousands of years which shows that the manuscripts, through to the Bible that we have today has remained transmitted accurately.

My comment assumes that of all the works that God inspired, these are the only ones that the Church put into the Bible...

Since other works are either self-contradictory, or contradictory to the Bible, this would mean that God contradicted Himself, and thus the god that you are describing would be one who makes mistakes.

Of course the NT that we were all given by the church hundreds of years after it was written was combed through as precisely as possible so that it would not contradict itself.

That is your claim which is completely in contradiction with all historical evidence. Anyone can make claims, but that does not make them true.

[DrJ]

That sounds to me like you deny that God was able to define His own Bible and was unable to preserve His word.

Soooo... then God removed the freewill of Man long enough to preserve the Bible... and then put it back?

It also sounds like you deny the evidence going back thousands of years which shows that the manuscripts, through to the Bible that we have today has remained transmitted accurately.

It sounds to me that you enjoy making inaccurate claims of historical evidence. My favorite part is when you said "evidence going back thousands of years". Especially when some of the books of the Bible were written less than 2,000 years ago.

I understand your passion but you allow your emotions to get in the way of intelligent conversation.

Since other works are either self-contradictory, or contradictory to the Bible, this would mean that God contradicted Himself, and thus the god that you are describing would be one who makes mistakes.

Again, you are using a book that was manipulated by man as proof that no one works are the inspired works of God.

GOD did not contradict Himself. Man contradicted God.

That is your claim which is completely in contradiction with all historical evidence. Anyone can make claims, but that does not make them true.

Here you go with these crazy generalizations again. "Completely in contradiction with all historical evidence".

Anyway. what "historical evidence" do you have that shows an earlier version of the Bible that was released to the public?

[homesell]

Classyt,
I can't stay away but from now on I'll just answer the questions instead of getting into personal discussions which usually devolve into ad hominem attacks and knocking down straw men.
The answer is NO. There is no other way to the Father but by Jesus Christ.
It is his shed sinless blood that covers our sins. Since all our sins are ultimately against God, God alone can forgive our sins.(For we all like sheep have gone astray). Jesus paying our penalty by dying the death we should have paid(the wages of sin is death)is the method that God has chosen to forgive sins. No other way or religious system has an answer for how sins are to be atoned for because no amount of good works makes up for or counteracts a single sin.

[galveston]

Well, I read through pg 9 and skipped to here, so probably missed something profound.

It is a matter of faith:

Heb 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(KJV)

BUT after coming to God, we get a witness:

Rom 8:15-16
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
(KJV)

Having accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, we receive the TEACHER.

John 14:15-17
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
(KJV)

AND

John 16:13-14
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
(KJV)

THEREFORE, since we have this Spirit of Truth, we become acquainted with the AUTHOR of the Bible.

When you know the author, you have no trouble understanding what He meant. You are no longer guessing.

[galveston]

I want to add one more thing.

Any Christian who says that all roads lead to God has denied the faith.

If that were so, then Jesus made a terrible mistake when He volunteered to be crucified to save us from our sins.

[Wondergirl]

I want to add one more thing.

Any Christian who says that all roads lead to God has denied the faith.

If that were so, then Jesus made a terrible mistake when He volunteered to be crucified to save us from our sins.

So only Christians -- specially chosen Christians -- will be in heaven.

[450donn]

There you go again, taking a truth and turning it around and perverting it to suit your needs. Where did galveston say any such thing?

[galveston]

So only Christians -- specially chosen Christians -- will be in heaven.

First, how many kinds of Christians do you think there are? You either are one or you are not.

Secondly, Jesus is completely exclusive. Yes only those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior will be in Heaven, understanding that the Old Testament saints are saved by their faith in the promise of God, which looked forward to Messiah.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(KJV)

BUT, thirdly, Jesus is completely inclusive.

John 7:37-38
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(KJV)

John 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
(KJV)

All that is required to gain Heaven is to accept the gracious offer from God. What is so difficult to understand about that?

[tickle]

I know where I am going. My wishes are to be cremated and my ashes scattered in the water at my favourite beach in eastern Ontario, Presquille Point. That puts me back in nature where I belong.

Tick