[Tj3]

God Himself in Scripture in Psalm 82:6 clearly says '' I said , you are gods and sons of the Almighty '' and Jesus in John 10:34 repeats those same words testifying their truth!
I can see how our flesh blocks our view but we have to see things like God does!
If He says so , who am I to dissagree?
As for who chose who, it takes two witnesses to testify the truth , so yes God chose us and yes we chose God! We and God , two witnesses that confirm the truth!

Read Psalm 82. These "gods" are unjust judges who judge falsely, do not understand, walk around in darkness and die like men.

Is that the type of "god" that you want to be?

[Tj3]

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Foreknowledge (free will) and predestination are both true. Did you read what I said earlier regarding my position?

[Wondergirl]

It is indeed free, but like any other gift that is indeed free, we can accept or reject it.

Nope! Even our accepting is by the power of the Holy Spirit. We can only reject of our own free will.

[sndbay]

Nope! Even our accepting is by the power of the Holy Spirit. We can only reject of our own free will.

Wondergirl,

I offer one suggestion that perhaps can show what is meant. The free gift was grace, also known as God's love. So it is the free gift of love that the Father has sent to us which does give us salvation to life eternal. NOW refer: Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[sndbay]

John 10 refers to Psalm 82 which is a condemnation of those who try to exalt themselves and who judge others in an unjust and unfair manner.

Nowhere does scripture endorse the idea that men become gods.

True, but I believe what is being said is that Christ dwells within us, and we in HIM.
Once you have accepted baptism in newness of life, as scripture references, you then are a temple and holy. Be ye holy for I am Holy. This goes into the meat of righteousness and further given if God is willing. It is a measure of gift offered accordance to the Will of God.

In the likenss of the Holy Spirit, just as Genesis 1:26 shown that Christ and The Father are connected.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

[Wondergirl]

Wondergirl,

I offer one suggestion that perhaps can show what is meant. The free gift was grace, also known as God's love. So it is the free gift of love that the Father has sent to us which does give us salvation to life eternal. NOW refer: Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

That's later, after the Holy Spirit has worked faith in us and we have become one of God's own again. God will always open the door when any of His own knock.

[sndbay]

That's later, after the Holy Spirit has worked faith in us and we have become one of God's own again. God will always open the door when any of His own knock.

Then perhaps you must refer: Matthew13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

I just offered it as seed that we are by choice of free will on the other thread. It can be the experiences of life that builds our fruitful or unfruitful life

[Tj3]

Nope! Even our accepting is by the power of the Holy Spirit. We can only reject of our own free will.

You keep telling me that, but that is not in scripture. Let me give you an example of where following God is specifically called a choice - Joshua 24:22.

[Tj3]

True, but I believe what is being said is that Christ dwells within us, and we in HIM.
Once you have accepted baptism in newness of life, as scripture references, you then are a temple and holy. Be ye holy for I am Holy. This goes into the meat of righteousness and further given if God is willing. It is a measure of gift offered accordance to the Will of God.

In the likenss of the Holy Spirit, just as Genesis 1:26 shown that Christ and The Father are connected.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

True - but God remains God and we remain men. Scripture only speaks of Jesus as the Son of God, not us. We are called adopted sons, and the important difference is that a son by adoption receives the benefits of a son by nature, but never become a physicl son by nature.

Thus, though we can be adopted by God as sons, we will never become divine, we will never becomes gods.

[Wondergirl]

Let me give you an example of where following God is specifically called a choice - Joshua 24:22.

That's not what I am talking about. The "choosing" in Joshua is AFTER the Holy Spirit has worked faith. Here Joshua is choosing up sides for the Lord, sort of like a baseball game except this is choose the true God or false ones. The people being asked were already God's.

Initially, we are dead in sin.

1 Cor. 2:14 -- The natural man receiveth not (or, as the Greek word properly signifies, grasps not, comprehends not, accepts not) the things of the Spirit, that is, he is not capable of spiritual things; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them.

Rom. 8:7 -- The carnal mind, or the mind of the natural man, is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can be.

John 15:5 -- Without Me ye can do nothing.

Phil. 2:13 -- It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Phil. 1:29 -- For unto you it is given, in behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him.

Eph. 2:8 -- It is the gift of God.

John 6:29 -- This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.

Ezek. 11:19 -- He takes away the hard heart of stone, and gives a new tender heart of flesh, that we may walk in His commands.

Eph. 2:10 -- He creates us in Christ Jesus to good works.

2 Cor. 5:17 -- He makes us new creatures.

John 6:44 -- No one can come to Christ unless the Father draw him.
1 Cor. 12:3 -- No one can call Christ Lord except by the Holy Ghost.

[sndbay]

True - but God remains God and we remain men. Scripture only speaks of Jesus as the Son of God, not us. We are called adopted sons, and the important difference is that a son by adoption receives the benefits of a son by nature, but never become a physicl son by nature.

Thus, though we can be adopted by God as sons, we will never become divine, we will never becomes gods.

True- we are called to be children of God but there is only "ONE begotten Son of God"

[Tj3]

That's not what I am talking about. The "choosing" in Joshua is AFTER the Holy Spirit has worked faith. Here Joshua is choosing up sides for the Lord, sort of like a baseball game except this is choose the true God or false ones. The people being asked were already God's.

Not true. It is asking people to make a real choice between the true God and false gods. Look at the choice that they were asked to make:

Josh 24:14-16
14 "Now therefore, fear the LORD, serve Him in sincerity and in truth, and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the River and in Egypt. Serve the LORD! 15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
NKJV

Initially, we are dead in sin.

1 Cor. 2:14 -- The natural man receiveth not (or, as the Greek word properly signifies, grasps not, comprehends not, accepts not) the things of the Spirit, that is, he is not capable of spiritual things; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them.

Rom. 8:7 -- The carnal mind, or the mind of the natural man, is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can be.

John 15:5 -- Without Me ye can do nothing.

Phil. 2:13 -- It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Phil. 1:29 -- For unto you it is given, in behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him.

Eph. 2:8 -- It is the gift of God.

John 6:29 -- This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.

Ezek. 11:19 -- He takes away the hard heart of stone, and gives a new tender heart of flesh, that we may walk in His commands.

Eph. 2:10 -- He creates us in Christ Jesus to good works.

2 Cor. 5:17 -- He makes us new creatures.

John 6:44 -- No one can come to Christ unless the Father draw him.
1 Cor. 12:3 -- No one can call Christ Lord except by the Holy Ghost.

I agree with all of this. Where is the verse which says that we make no decision?

[Wondergirl]

I agree with all of this. Where is the verse which says that we make no decision?

How about "it's a gift"? Do you help choose a gift someone gives you? If you help in the decision-making process, is it still a gift?

How about "Cor. 12:3 -- No one can call Christ Lord except by the Holy Ghost"?

[Tj3]

How about "it's a gift"? Do you help choose a gift someone gives you? If you help in the decision-making process, is it still a gift?

Yes, it is a gift, but do you know anyone who "forces" a gift on you? If a person chooses to reject a gift, will you demand that they accept it, will you force them?

A gift is not a gift if it is forced on a person against their will.

How about "Cor. 12:3 -- No one can call Christ Lord except by the Holy Ghost"?

Where did I say that the Holy Spirit did not play a part? Indeed I have stated that the Holy Spirit is essential very frequently.

[Wondergirl]

Yes, it is a gift, but do you know anyone who "forces" a gift on you? If a person chooses to reject a gift, will you demand that they accept it, will you force them?

If you feel God forces this gift on you, you can say no, thank you.

A gift is not a gift if it is forced on a person against their will.

Exactly.

Where did I say that the Holy Spirit did not play a part? Indeed I have stated that the Holy Spirit is essential very frequently.

The Holy Spirit did it ALL!

[Tj3]

If you feel God forces this gift on you, you can say no, thank you.

Precisely. So we can accept Jesus as Saviour or Reject. We have choice and freewill.

[Wondergirl]

Precisely. So we can accept Jesus as Saviour or Reject. We have choice and freewill.

We do nothing to accept. After the Holy Spirit has worked faith in your heart, you have done nothing except will have the right to say no.

[Tj3]

We do nothing to accept. After the Holy Spirit has worked faith in your heart, you have done nothing except will have the right to say no.

If you can say no, you can say yes.

[Wondergirl]

If you can say no, you can say yes.

Nope. If you say yes, you are doing work toward your own salvation, and that takes you down the same road of those you disagree with who espouse work righteousness.

[Tj3]

Nope. If you say yes, you are doing work toward your own salvation, and that takes you down the same road of those you disagree with who espouse work righteousness.

Accepting a free gift is not work by any definition.

But once again, let's go by what scripture says. Let me ask you again for where scripture says that we cannot choose to accept God.