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Wondergirl · Mar 12, 2009, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

I became a Catholic at confirmation.

To me, Confirmation is a reaffirmation of Baptism and induction into church membership.

Tj3 · Mar 12, 2009, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Akoue

Free from original sin.

That happens when we receive Jesus as Saviour. It is the blood, according to scripture, that washes sin, not water.

arcura · Mar 12, 2009, 10:02 PM

Wondergirl.
Tj3 answered correctly. "wet"
But I add that they become a temple of the holy Spirit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Akoue · Mar 12, 2009, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

That happens when we receive Jesus as Saviour. It is the blood, according to scripture, that washes sin, not water.

Nah, you misunderstand Scripture.

arcura · Mar 12, 2009, 10:06 PM

Akoue,
It is not the first time that he has done so.
Fred

Tj3 · Mar 12, 2009, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Wondergirl.
Tj3 answered correctly. "wet"
But I add that they become a temple of the holy Spirit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Not with baptism. That happens when we receive Christ as Saviour.

arcura · Mar 12, 2009, 10:10 PM

Tj3,
I disagree.
I believe what the Bible says about baptism
Fred

Tj3 · Mar 12, 2009, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
I disagree.
I believe what the Bible says about baptism
fred

Then you would have to agree with me.

Heb 9:22
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
NKJV

It is the blood that remits sin, not water.

Wondergirl · Mar 12, 2009, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Not with baptism. That happens when we receive Christ as Saviour.

Baptism is the conduit, the vehicle, a means of grace.

Tj3 · Mar 12, 2009, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Baptism is the conduit, the vehicle.

Scripture calls it symbolic. Scripture shows that baptism follows salvation.

Akoue · Mar 12, 2009, 10:36 PM

Baptism is symbolic: It is an efficacious symbol, a sign that effects what it signifies. This is what the word "sumbolon" means: sun + ballein, fall together. The sign and the reality signified are one.

arcura · Mar 12, 2009, 10:47 PM

Akoue,
That is true.
Baptism of water and the spirit in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit signals what is happening to the person.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3 · Mar 12, 2009, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Akoue

Baptism is symbolic: It is an efficacious symbol,

An oxymoron. Scripture is explicit that salvation is ONLY representative of that which saves, and gives examples where people are saved prior to baptism.

Wondergirl · Mar 12, 2009, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

An oxymoron. Scripture is explicit that salvation is ONLY representative of that which saves, and gives examples where people are saved prior to baptism.

So you would baptize only is there is no doubt expressed by the individual.

Akoue · Mar 12, 2009, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

An oxymoron.

Not at all. The word "symbolon" was often used this way.

Scripture is explicit that salvation is ONLY representative of that which saves, and gives examples where people are saved prior to baptism.

No, you're being hyperbolic. God can save whomever he chooses. That is true. But it doesn't follow from this that baptism isn't salvific.

Tj3 · Mar 13, 2009, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Akoue

Not at all. The word "symbolon" was often used this way.

This is a distraction. Let's stick to the context of the point at hand. Scripture is quite clear, both in the use of the word as well as describing what is meant that baptism has no saving value in and of itself.

Tj3 · Mar 13, 2009, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So you would baptize only is there is no doubt expressed by the individual.

I would baptise only where the person can provided a testimony of having been saved consistent with the gospel.

Even at that, I could not prove that the person had been saved, but that is between them and God. Baptism without have been first saved does not provide any value to the person other than to get them wet and perhaps satisfy relatives who pressure kids to get baptised.

Alty · Mar 13, 2009, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

I would baptise only where the person can provided a testimony of having been saved consistent with the gospel.

Even at that, I could not prove that the person had been saved, but that is between them and God. Baptism without have been first saved does not provide any value to the person other than to get them wet and perhaps satisfy relatives who pressure kids to get baptised.

What does this have to do with the original question?

Wondergirl · Mar 13, 2009, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by unknown624

But I keep going behind my parents' backs, and I don't feel good about it...Is it too late to give up lying?

I'm still concerned about unknown. Is the lying his/her going to a Catholic church behind parents' backs? It's okay. A Catholic church is Christian.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 13, 2009, 06:48 PM

A lot deleted, but still closed, last 3 pages off topic