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bmoore2156 · Feb 9, 2009, 07:57 PM

My 92 honda accord will not start. A quick spray with starting fluid and she runs, meaning good spark, compression, timing etc... All fueses checks good.
The main relay only clicks once when the ignition is turned on and has been replaced with one out of a running car. If you jump the grn/blk wire to ground, on the main relay the fuel pump will start. I tesed voltage on the MAP sensor for the k-test. There are three wires on the right hand connector. From left to right 0 ~ 4.5 ~ 5
I pulled back the carpet on the passenger side to expose the ecm and there is moisture on the cover plate and minor rust.
The CEL stays on when the ignition is on.
What to check next?

tritt · Feb 9, 2009, 08:01 PM

Check for fuel pressure

bmoore2156 · Feb 9, 2009, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by tritt

check for fuel pressure

I did pull the fuel line off when I first started testing. There was no fuel when the key was on or the engine was cranking. This led me to the main relay. When I jumped the main relay and the fuel pump turned on, it had plenty of fuel. I had it jumped for about 1 sec and it pumped close to 2 cups of fuel in the container. As for fuel pressure I have no way of testing this without a special adapter and gauge.
Back to the main relay... The only way I get the fuel pump to run is by jumping it.. I believe I am not getting a ground from the ECM to the main relay for the fuel pump to run.
I am not sure why. Bad ECM or something else to check?

tritt · Feb 9, 2009, 08:29 PM

Think you are on the right tack pcm grounds the relay. And moisture on the pcm isn't a good sign. If you have a good wirering diagram you may be able to ground the fuel pump though a relay some other way

bmoore2156 · Feb 9, 2009, 08:32 PM

I tried to start it while the main relay was jumpered.. No go.. =(

tritt · Feb 9, 2009, 08:44 PM

Have you checked contnuity of the wire from the pcm to the relay

bmoore2156 · Feb 9, 2009, 08:53 PM

I have not got that far yet. I guess I figured if that wire was the problem the car would have started when I jumped the ground on the Main relay.
The part I am trying to figure out is: I can jump the main relay to get fuel pressure. If I have good fuel pressure to the EFI the only thing I would be missing is EFI actually injecting fuel which is controlled by the ecm.
So, what tells the ecm to fire the injectors? Crank shaft sensor?

TxGreaseMonkey · Feb 10, 2009, 07:06 AM

. Check the ignition switch:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post224652

Since you said the second relay inside the main relay doesn't click, focus on the Starter Signal Fuse, in the underdash fuse box, and the ignition switch.

. This link should help:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...ml#post1245523

bmoore2156 · Feb 10, 2009, 07:41 PM

I tinkered around with the car for a few hours tonight until it got dark. I re-checked the starter signal fuse.. Everything looks good there.
I don't mean to second guess your advise because you are very well versed in the elecrical system. Please explain why you think the starter signal fuse could be the problem. When I ground the grn/blk wire to the main relay the fuel pump will turn on. To me that would mean I have power, just not the ground that comes from the ecm.
The other things I noticed today are. The check engine light stays on while the key is in the on position. I am not sure how to read the codes.
When you turn the key in the on position you hear a few clicks under the dash. One is the main relay and I am not sure about others. If you turn the key past the run position before the starter engages there is one more click from a relay under the dash... If you turn the key a little farther (again before the started engages) You hear another relay click (neither are the main relay) followed by 5 audible beeps. This makes me think that the ignition is working properly.
What else would cause a "no ground" from the ecm to the main relay? Could I test the ignition wire at the ecm to make sure It's getting power there?
The other thing I did tonight was remove the ecm and cover plate to inspect it. (I removed the battery cables first) There was no visual damage to it. Did not smell burnt.
Thanks for you help!

TxGreaseMonkey · Feb 10, 2009, 08:03 PM

The Starter Signal Fuse and the ignition switch must work properly, in order for the second relay inside the main relay to work. If either doesn't work, the fuel pump won't run when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II). I would also clean the main ECM ground, located on the thermostat housing.

When you turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II), does the Check Engine Light (CEL) come on and then go off after 2 seconds? If not, the problem is with the ACG (ALT) (S) fuse, in the underdash fuse/relay box; ECM (perform the K-Test); Main Relay; or the Ignition Switch. Perform tests in that order.

Be sure to read the link I gave you earlier. It's by far the best material you will find anywhere on your problem--guaranteed! I've simplified a very complex system to allow you to easily identify the problem.

bmoore2156 · Feb 11, 2009, 05:40 PM

It seems I am having a hard time locating the ACG (ALT) (S) fuse, in the underdash fuse/relay box. I read the post where it talks about fuses but I still can't figure out where it is. I did check the underhood fuse box and the ecm fuse there test good.
I am trying to figure out why the CEL is staying on... :confused:
Thanks for your help...

TxGreaseMonkey · Feb 11, 2009, 06:18 PM

The ACG (ALT) (S) fuse is likely located in the top right corner of the underdash fuse box, within the SRS fuse block. It's probably a 15A fuse.

bmoore2156 · Feb 11, 2009, 06:24 PM

I also checked power on the main relay. Pins 1, 3, 5 had 12v with the key in the on position

TxGreaseMonkey · Feb 11, 2009, 06:26 PM

Use a test light or multimeter to test every fuse in the underdash and underhood fuse boxes:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post252145

bmoore2156 · Feb 13, 2009, 07:41 PM

Ok, I tested all the fuses, one by one. They all test good.
I got the codes off the ecm tonight.
14 ~ Electronic air control
15 ~ Ignition output signal

I looked around and couldn't find much info on these codes. Could any of these be the reason for the no start? I also looked for the ecm ground on the thermostat housing.. It is not there. There is a ground near the battery box, on the corner panel with 5 wires going to it. I cleaned them all an tested ohms from the ground post to each wire and got .2
Thanks for the help!

TxGreaseMonkey · Feb 14, 2009, 02:32 AM

Code 14--Clean/replace the Idle Air Control Valve (IACV):

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...ml#post1054149

Code 15--Replace the Ignition Control Module (ICM):

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post265896

bmoore2156 · Feb 14, 2009, 09:20 AM

I was reading the Chilton this morning before I go out and work on the car. I found a great tid bit of information!
Fuel Pump Control... When the engine is not running, but the ignition is ON, electric current to the fuel pump is turned off.
(1990-95 models)
I was under the impression that the fuel pump was on, while the key was in the on position. This would explain why I have no 2nd click on the main relay.
Page 4-14 (ecu)

TxGreaseMonkey · Feb 14, 2009, 09:56 AM

That's not exactly right. When the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II), the fuel pump should run for two seconds and then shut off. You don't hear a second click because of an ignition switch, fuse, ECM, main relay, or main ECM grounding problem.

bmoore2156 · Feb 21, 2009, 12:42 PM

Found the problem! Code 15 was referring to the igniter in the distributer cap. I found where it talks about the igniter in the Chilton and how to test it. After testing all the wire to make sure they were good, I tested the igniter. It tested bad according to the chilton. I found one on eBay for $20 bucks and just plugged it in. The first thing I noticed was when I turned the key to the on position, the fuel pump ran for 2 sec. Then she started right up!
Thanks for the help guys.

bmoore2156 · Feb 22, 2009, 01:29 PM

Well... Went out to start the car this morning and nothing the first time. The pump didn't start and the CEL was on.
After I tried the key about 3 times it started right up. After that it is about 50/50 if it will start or not. I checked the codes and found 14 & 15 again.
Is it possible that the igniter (it was new) could be intermitent or maybe the coil?
When you turn the key in the on position, and the CEL goes off it will always start. When the CEL stays on, it won't.
I checked and cleaned all the connections to the Igniter and applied silicone grease.
What would cause the intermitent problem?