[linnealand]

Thank you kindly. That was the most helpful advice so far

[KISS]

We see a lot of stuff like ceiling fans and lights wired with these Crimp Caps, here: Installation Electrical Supplies, Crimp Caps | TESSCO 800 472 7373

Although there are no specs, but wirenuts which you twist on and are reusable and both of these things typically say they will splice x wires of this AWG with say 1 of y size, etc.

This creates a strong connection that won't pull apart and is easy for the manufacturer to assemble, but it does make it difficult to replace items.

[linnealand]

Not exactly. Or depends. Since it's likely that the bulbs will be wired in parallel (one to a cable) or each wire will see 60 W/120 V or about 0.5A. All of these wired together would connect to a larger wire. That wire should likely be no less than 16 AWG.

LAMP(BASE SOCKET) - 18 AWG *
LAMP(BASE SOCKET) - 18 AWG * * * * 16 AWG White
LAMP(BASE SOCKET) - 18 AWG *


LAMP(BASE Center) -18 AWG *
LAMP(BASE center) - 18 AWG * * * * 16 AWG black
LAMP(BASE center) - 18 AWG *


*******************************typically green Ground


Typically houses are wired with 14 AWG and sometimes 12 AWG.

No one uses 1000 W of lighting in a room unless this thing is HUGE.

My home Crystal Chadelier: 5 bulbs at 40 W each on a dimmer over dining room table.

120 W is usually plenty bright and that's about max for an average sized room. Many single fixtures have a maximum of 60 W for the lamp because of the enclosed globes.

Hanging lamp over kitchen table. 4 bulbs at 25 W each. Usually 2 are unscrewed part way so they are off.

FWIW (For What It's Worth) Incadescent lamps will be disapearing from the US

I really appreciate your help here, so thank you! Bear with me, because I want to have a very clear understanding of your explanations.

When you wrote "not exactly, or depends" exactly what part of tev's post were you referencing? Is the rest of tev's quote accurate?

Is the lamp-base-socket drawing a suggestion, the ideal, or the only option?

The sample wires we have are one solid color. They have two coated wires running parallel to each other. One of the samples, still with the two coated wires, is solid black. The other sample is solid clear with copper colored wire inside.

I seem to remember hearing someone say that europe always uses a ground wire, but that it's not the case in the US. Is that true?

It's for a private unit/condo in a luxury ski village. The largest room is large, but it's not totally enormous. The bulbs they'll be most likely to use will be 25 or up to 40 watts, but I would feel safer if the pieces could also handle 60 watt bulbs. This room will contain the largest chandelier (16 lights) in the living room part, a large chandelier (8 lights) over the dining room table, and 3 pendants in the kitchen. We're also doing a flush mounted chandelier in the entrance, which will have about 5 lights.

There are 8 light chandeliers in the bedrooms, there's another flush mounted chandelier in the corridor, and there are single light sconces in the bathrooms.

All of the chandeliers are going onto high quality dimmers.

We are a small but high-end furniture, lighting and décor studio. Everything is custom made and handmade in wrought iron or cold-shaped iron. By my partner, who is a master iron artisan and designer. Believe it or not, we did the largest chandelier with 16 lights to reduce the amount of light given, since they are being made to use regular bulbs. The original design, from which we have gotten a lot of business, uses 24 lights. It uses a combination of 25 and 10 watt halogen-style bulbs.

I know there have been many discussions regarding incandescent bulbs, and a couple of places are trying to phase them out. Unless we're asked to do otherwise, we are using them or the halogens.

From wikipedia:
"Many of these state efforts became moot when the federal Clean Energy Act of 2007 was signed into law on December 19, 2007. This legislation effectively banned (by January 2014) incandescent bulbs that produce 310 - 2600 lumens of light[citation needed]. Bulbs outside this range (roughly, light bulbs currently less than 40 Watts or more than 150 Watts) are exempt from the ban. Also exempt are several classes of specialty lights, including appliance lamps, "rough service" bulbs, 3-way, colored lamps, and plant lights."

The great majority of the pieces we do are like works of art, but they're also practical. The quality of light they give off is part of the whole effect. Fluorescents would be rather ugly. If incandescents get banned one day, I imagine they'd be replaced with bulbs that have the same sized base, right?

Needless to say, we're not a large manufacturer looking to send stockpiles of lighting to the states. This is a single commission to a private client. For my information, are the restrictions mentioned by tev required in the same way?

[tkrussell]

There is a lot here to go through, althou I did breeze through it.

No one has mentioned Underwriters Laboratories, or some other third party testing and certification.

Any electrical product sold for installation in the USA must be listed by a third party testing firm, UL being the most popular.

See Underwriters Laboratories Inc.

The National Electric Code Section #410 VII-Construction of Luminaires applies here.

A sample fixture, or prototype, needs to be sent to a testing lab for testing and labeling.

Your product will then be listed and allowed to be sold and installed in the USA.

I will leave you to the other answers, as I believe your original question is to use either #18 or #16 wire ,in the fixture, and I see there is much discussion on that.

I believe that #18 can be used from each socket, and then splice the total wires from each socket onto one #16 pigtail, that will be ready for connectio not the building wire in the lighting outlet box.

Since a fixture socket wiring and connection pigtail must be rated to handle 90 Deg C, NEC Table 310.16 lists #18 wire of various insulations as being capable of handling 14 amps.

I don't see what wattage each socket will be rated for. If each is rated a max of 60 watts , at 18 total sockets will result in a 9 amp total load, so even the connection pigatils can be #18 wire, again, using insulation rated at 90 Deg C . I see the specs on the wire you have all exceed this requirement, so looks like you good to go with all #18 wire.

Just be sure to get your product tested, listed, and labeled before sale in the USA, otherwise, contractors such as myself will refuse to install your fixture.

Most good inspectors know about this issue, and check for listing of products they find installed in building.

[KISS]

One at a time - I lost a long post because undo doesn't work.

when you wrote "not exactly, or depends" exactly what part of tev's post were you referencing? Is the rest of tev's quote accurate?

Is the lamp-base-socket drawing a suggestion, the ideal, or the only option?

<snip>

I seem to remember hearing someone say that europe always uses a ground wire, but that it's not the case in the US. Is that true?

Tev's posts are accurate.

Depends - means the lamps can be compromized of any number of parallel segments with any number of lamps on each segment. I illustrated 3 lamps all coming together in one feed.

You could have 6 pairs of lamps coming together for one feed, so the wire only has to be rated to support one pair. The final connection needs to be rated for the total lamp current.

The lamp base drawing was basically supposed to illustrate that white connects to the screw portion of the socket and black to tip at the bottom to reduce shocks.

A ground wire needs to be provided for anything that isn't double insulated which an iron lamp will not be.

[KISS]

the sample wires we have are one solid color. They have two coated wires running parallel to each other. One of the samples, still with the two coated wires, is solid black. The other sample is solid clear with copper colored wire inside.

I think we may have determined that it's not suitable. Usually split pairs have a "marked" side. The marked side could be ribbed or clear or whatever. The "marked side" goes to neutral or white.

[KISS]

Halogens have reduced life when dimmed.

[linnealand]

I would really like to thank you for helping me. I really appreciate it.

There is a lot here to go thru, althou I did breeze thru it.

No one has mentioned Underwriters Laboratories, or some other third party testing and certification.

Any electrical product sold for installation in the USA must be listed by a third party testing firm, UL being the most popular.

See Underwriters Laboratories Inc.

The National Electric Code Section #410 VII-Construction of Luminaires applies here.

A sample fixture, or prototype, needs to be sent to a testing lab for testing and labeling.

Your product will then be listed and allowed to be sold and installed in the USA.

Just be sure to get your product tested, listed, and labeled before sale in the USA, otherwise, contractors such as myself will refuse to install your fixture.

Most good inspectors know about this issue, and check for listing of products they find installed in building.

This makes a lot of sense for manufacturers, but we're not a factory; we are a very small artisan studio. Each piece is one of a kind, and they fall between handmade artisan ironwork and artful lighting. My partner is a master iron artisan, and he has been handcrafting iron furniture, lighting and décor for over 25 years. Since they are all one of a kind, there's no such thing as a prototype for the pieces. Also, these pieces are not for sale by a department store or something. They're a handful of pieces made for a private client for their private condo. They also happen to be old family friends with a penchant for powerful places. They flew out to italy to choose what they wanted for the project.

Here's the list of all the lighting:
1 chandelier: 16 bulbs (I said 18 in the first post, but it's 16)
4 chandeliers: 8 bulbs
1 chandelier: 5 bulbs
1 flush mount lighting fixture: 6 bulbs
5 single light sconces (various styles)
3 hanging pendants

They asked me to contact their electrician, whom I was told has questions for us. That's a big part of why I posted; I want to make sure everything I have is right.

I will leave you to the other answers, as I beleive your original question is to use either #18 or #16 wire ,in the fixture, and I see there is much discussion on that.

I believe that #18 can be used from each socket, and then splice the total wires from each socket onto one #16 pigtail, that will be ready for connectio nto the building wire in the lighting outlet box.

Since a fixture socket wiring and connection pigtail must be rated to handle 90 Deg C, NEC Table 310.16 lists #18 wire of various insulations as being capable of handling 14 amps.

I dont see what wattage each socket will be rated for. If each is rated a max of 60 watts , at 18 total sockets will result in a 9 amp total load, so even the connection pigatils can be #18 wire, again, using insulation rated at 90 Deg C . I see the specs on the wire you have all exceed this requirement, so looks like you good to go with all #18 wire.

This was much clearer to me than some of the other posts. I don't know the technical jargon, especially for wiring things in the states. I am american, but I started my career over here. The method you described is more or less how the pieces are wired in our studio. We've been selling them for years and years wired like this, to tremendous success (using european wires). Yes, each would be rated a max of 60. But there will be more than enough light using 40 or 25 watt bulbs.

I hope I've understood what you said. It sounds like you're saying that it's fine to use 18awg for each socket and 18awg for the pigtail or 18awg for each socket and 16awg for the pigtail. That sounds perfect to me. There have been diverse posts on here telling me I can't use the 18awg I have been given. Is that correct? In your opinion, it needs to be a different kind of 18 or 16awg? If so, what is the exact name you recommend?

Although we usually use transformers, at least when using the halogen bulbs, we're not using transformers here because they'll be for regular bulbs.

This was posted earlier:
"So 16 bulbs at 60 watts each is 960 watts so you would need to use 16awg for the largest fixture. Assuming none of the fixtures will use more than 60 watt bulbs, all the other fixtures can be 18awg."

Is this correct? Or does what you wrote earlier apply to the largest piece too (i.e. 18awg and 18awg)?

Is is true that they require a ground wire? As I wrote earlier, someone told me that ground wires aren't used like they are in europe. Every single one of our european pieces are done with ground wire. What keepit said sounds more reasonable to me; if you concur, please say so.

Boy. If I'm honest, I'm still feeling a bit confused about some things. It seems that there are varying opinions about how the pieces are supposed to get handled, and I would think the answer would just be clear cut. I really liked your advice, and I really appreciate how you were able to explain things in a way I can understand. So thank you. I really am relying on your help here.

From keepit:
"FWIW (For What It's Worth) Incadescent lamps will be disapearing from the US. ... Halogens have reduced life when dimmed." lol, it sounds like you really want us to use fluorescent bulbs. As far as the fluorescent bulbs go that I know, they would make no sense at all on these pieces.

I'm attaching a couple of designs that were sold to a company by my partner, who made them. The pictures of them are terrible, but you can see how they use the halogens I've been talking about. The standing lamp is a good reference for it.

Again, we're using regular bulbs, not halogens, on the pieces for this client. Most of the lighting is classically styled, but I am including a picture of this chandelier to give you an idea of how the piece is made. The chandelier in the picture is also smaller, simpler and less refined than the design for this client, but the core idea is similar enough as far as the wiring goes.


https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/member...chandelier.jpg