[ivysun99]

Hi, i just got in a minor accident and want to see who's fault it is and if i should file a claim.

At the intersetion, I was attempting to make a left turn. I first stoped and looked both side. Then I determine I have enough time to make the left turn (the speed limit is 25). As I was turning left, a car coming from my driver side hit me. I am pretty sure she was speeding and didn't pay attention. My rear bumper (both the left side and the left back) was damaged. The back (left) side bumper was broke open. My question is 1) Is it enough to prove the other person was speeding based on the damage. 2)who's fault do you think it is. Lastly, we both have 500 deductible and the repair cost would be around 1000 for me and 800 for her. Is it worth the file a claim. Or should we just each spend $$ to repair our own car? Thank you so much!

[N0help4u]

Replacing a bumper and a back quarter panel is much more than $500.
They could very easily say it was your fault though.
In my state anybody making a left hand turn is automatically at fault no matter how fast the other person was going. Often how fast they were going is hard to prove.
Her hitting the back half of your car may be your only hope.

[twinkiedooter]

Like Nohelp said when you are making a turn you are the one who would be getting the ticket. You are always supposed to be able to safely make a left hand turn when oncoming traffic is doing just that - oncoming! You didn't say whether the other driver wanted to file a claim or pay for her own damages? These damages could run you much more than you even think as car repair prices are not cheap and have gone way up. And also, you have no idea about any "hidden" damages there could be. This part is quite tricky also.

[JudyKayTee]

Hi, i just got in a minor accident and want to see who's fault it is and if i should file a claim.

At the intersetion, I was attempting to make a left turn. I first stoped and looked both side. Then I determine I have enough time to make the left turn (the speed limit is 25). As I was turning left, a car coming from my driver side hit me. I am pretty sure she was speeding and didn't pay attention. My rear bumper (both the left side and the left back) was damaged. The back (left) side bumper was broke open. My question is 1) Is it enough to prove the other person was speeding based on the damage. 2)who's fault do you think it is. Lastly, we both have 500 deductible and the repair cost would be around 1000 for me and 800 for her. Is it worth the file a claim. Or should we just each spend $$ to repair our own car? Thank you so much!

I don't think I am going to make you happy.

(1) No, I don't think you can prove she was speeding. If you prove she WAS speeding, you, as a prudent driver should have realized that (you are saying you realize it now) and not have started your turn.

(2) It is your fault - you turned when it was not safe. If you are in a comparative negligence State the other driver had some (limited) responsibility to try to stop (skid marks) or blow the horn to warn you or swerve (if it would have been safe). A lot will depend on how close to you she was when you turned out. She also has relatively minor damage so I would question the "speeding" on her part aspect of this.

(3) You caused the damage to her car so your insurance company should ultimately pay for her damage - I don't see any way you will each pay for your own damage and walk away without insurance companies being involved. She would be a fool to even consider it. What you do about your car is up to you - I don't think you have a claim against her or her insurance.

If for whatever reason insurance does not cover her damage she has the ability to take you to Small Claims Court. Of course, you can always sue her in Small Claims Court - but I think you will lose.

If there is ANY possibility she is going to claim injury, then by all means report the accident. Now.

I have investigated more left turn accidents than I can count - many more than I can count and the number 1 statement of the person turning is always, "The other car was speeding." Always.

[ivysun99]

I don't think I am going to make you happy.

(1) No, I don't think you can prove she was speeding. If you prove she WAS speeding, you, as a prudent driver should have realized that (you are saying you realize it now) and not have started your turn.

(2) It is your fault - you turned when it was not safe. If you are in a comparative negligence State the other driver had some (limited) responsibility to try to stop (skid marks) or blow the horn to warn you or swerve (if it would have been safe). A lot will depend on how close to you she was when you turned out. She also has relatively minor damage so I would question the "speeding" on her part aspect of this.

(3) You caused the damage to her car so your insurance company should ultimately pay for her damage - I don't see any way you will each pay for your own damage and walk away without insurance companies being involved. She would be a fool to even consider it. What you do about your car is up to you - I don't think you have a claim against her or her insurance.

If for whatever reason insurance does not cover her damage she has the ability to take you to Small Claims Court. Of course, you can always sue her in Small Claims Court - but I think you will lose.

If there is ANY possibility she is going to claim injury, then by all means report the accident. Now.

I have investigated more left turn accidents than I can count - many more than I can count and the number 1 statement of the person turning is always, "The other car was speeding." Always.

Thank you for your response, and thank you for being straigh up. There are couple things that I think it may be able to prove that she was speeding. And would like to hear your opinion on that.

The speed limit was 25mph, and to come to a full stop is takes less than 1 second (I tested it out with my car). Further, my bumper can susbstain a 8mph hit without any damage to it. And therefore, reducing the speed from 25 to 8 takes even less. In this case, she is either speeding or not looking (careless driving).

For me, I have the responsibility to determine whether it is safe to turn. At the time, I make a full stop first and determine it is safe to do so based on the 25 mph. When make this decision, I based on how far she is from me and the 25mph that she should be going. (I believe it's more difficult to observe the speed rather than the position of the car).

Also this is a simlar case to mine:
Proportional Comparative Fault at 51%

The states that have adopted proportional comparative fault bar recovery if you are more than 51% at fault for the accident. In other words, you cannot file a liability claim and lawsuit against the other driver’s negligence if you were more than 51% at fault. For example, Dennis hit Teri’s car while driving in excess of 25 miles per hour over the speed limit while Teri was attempting to cross the road. Even though Teri was partially at fault for not waiting until the road was completely clear before crossing, the insurance company allocated fault to Dennis at 60% due to his excessive speed. Even though Dennis suffered a broken arm from the accident, he is not entitled to recover for his injury because he was more than 51% at fault for the accident. States: Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Vermont, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

Car Accident Claim: Who is at Fault?

[N0help4u]

Problem is they can claim you should have seen the car was speeding and waited so you would have to prove they sped up or something more was involved than them speeding that made them at fault. Then they may still claim your fault.

My daughter was making a left on yellow (legal and ample time in my state) A car came speeding (flying) up a grade around a blind curve and went through what had to have been a red light and hit her. They said it was her fault because she was making a left turn.

[JudyKayTee]

[QUOTE=ivysun99]Thank you for your response, and thank you for being straigh up. There are couple things that I think it may be able to prove that she was speeding. And would like to hear your opinion on that.

The speed limit was 25mph, and to come to a full stop is takes less than 1 second (I tested it out with my car). Further, my bumper can susbstain a 8mph hit without any damage to it. And therefore, reducing the speed from 25 to 8 takes even less. In this case, she is either speeding or not looking (careless driving).

For me, I have the responsibility to determine whether it is safe to turn. At the time, I make a full stop first and determine it is safe to do so based on the 25 mph. When make this decision, I based on how far she is from me and the 25mph that she should be going. (I believe it's more difficult to observe the speed rather than the position of the car).

Also this is a simlar case to mine:
Proportional Comparative Fault at 51%

The states that have adopted proportional comparative fault bar recovery if you are more than 51% at fault for the accident. In other words, you cannot file a liability claim and lawsuit against the other driver’s negligence if you were more than 51% at fault. For example, Dennis hit Teri’s car while driving in excess of 25 miles per hour over the speed limit while Teri was attempting to cross the road. Even though Teri was partially at fault for not waiting until the road was completely clear before crossing, the insurance company allocated fault to Dennis at 60% due to his excessive speed. Even though Dennis suffered a broken arm from the accident, he is not entitled to recover for his injury because he was more than 51% at fault for the accident. States: Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Vermont, Wisconsin and Wyoming.


I don’t know what State you are in and I don’t know how close to the letter proportional negligence carriers evaluate accidents.

I don’t think you can prove she was speeding. I think your stopping time calculation is incorrect. Here is what is accepted in my area (and what I use) - at 25 mph she’s traveling almost 40 feet per second (39.9, to be exact). At 25 mph her REACTION time is 20-25 seconds; the STOPPING/BRAKING time (on a dry road) is 65 seconds (approximately). That takes the other vehicle approximately (given the low side) 85 seconds to see, react and stop. At 39.9 feet per second that’s slightly over 1.75 minutes, not the one second you calculated. And you think she was going faster than that which would have given her less time.

You state (and you are correct) that you “have the responsibility to determine whether it is safe to turn.” You make a full stop and determine it is safe to do so BASED ON THE 25 MPH. But that isn’t what you are required to do - you are required to determine whether it is safe to turn based on conditions - and if the condition was that she was speeding, then you are still liable and you turned when it was unsafe. In the Winter, in the snow, you don’t make a left-hand turn based on the color of the traffic signal; you base your decision to turn on all of the conditions - such as, will that car be able to stop in time?

You also can’t look both ways and decide it’s safe it there is another intersection involved to your left or right and another car comes out of that intersection and toward you. And that happens and I hear, “It was safe. There was no traffic.” Well, it wasn’t safe and you didn’t see what could happen. When you drive you always have to be looking far, far ahead.

I hear this all the time - “It wasn’t my fault; I looked; it was safe for me to turn.” If it had been safe for the turn, then the accident wouldn’t have occurred.

On first reading and without research the Dennis/Teri case is different from yours - there is clear cut evidence that speed was a factor. I don’t see that in your case. In fact, if your figures concerning stopping distance are to be believed, you turned out in front of her and she had one second to stop - 36.9 feet. She didn’t have a chance to avoid you.

I’d be grateful nobody was hurt and there was no more damage and let the whole matter rest.

I don't think you can prove her speed was a factor.

(I believe the other driver’s insurance will argue that she DID see you and DID try to avoid you and that’s why your car wasn’t totaled. She didn’t simply drive into the side of you.)

[twinkiedooter]

I only make left hand turns when there is absolutely NO BODY coming for at least a mile (or so it seems). This way I can avoid any wrecks into my vehicle. If in doubt, don't make the turn. Is your life and vehicle worth the extra few seconds for the other car to pass? NO. Needless to say I drive everyone else nuts with this practice. LOL! Ask me if I care about the idiots behind me honking their horns. NO!

[JudyKayTee]

I only make left hand turns when there is absolutely NO BODY coming for at least a mile (or so it seems). This way I can avoid any wrecks into my vehicle. If in doubt, don't make the turn. Is your life and vehicle worth the extra few seconds for the other car to pass? NO. Needless to say I drive everyone else nuts with this practice. LOL! Ask me if I care about the idiots behind me honking their horns. NO!

Left hand turns scare me to death because they have to be 60% of what I do. My particular pet peeve is those people who stand behind the white line on a green light, signalling their left-hand turn, anxiously looking at the traffic signal and oncoming traffic, clutching the steering wheel. I feel like screaming PULL INTO THE INTERSECTION AND OWN IT AND MAYBE WE'LL GET A CHANCE WHEN THE LIGHT CHANGES.

Amen.

[ivysun99]

[QUOTE=JudyKayTee]

I don't think you can prove she was speeding. I think your stopping time calculation is incorrect. Here is what is accepted in my area (and what I use) - at 25 mph she's traveling almost 40 feet per second (39.9, to be exact). At 25 mph her REACTION time is 20-25 seconds; the STOPPING/BRAKING time (on a dry road) is 65 seconds (approximately). That takes the other vehicle approximately (given the low side) 85 seconds to see, react and stop. At 39.9 feet per second that's slightly over 1.75 minutes, not the one second you calculated. And you think she was going faster than that which would have given her less time.

You state (and you are correct) that you “have the responsibility to determine whether it is safe to turn.” You make a full stop and determine it is safe to do so BASED ON THE 25 MPH. But that isn't what you are required to do - you are required to determine whether it is safe to turn based on conditions - and if the condition was that she was speeding, then you are still liable and you turned when it was unsafe. In the Winter, in the snow, you don't make a left-hand turn based on the color of the traffic signal; you base your decision to turn on all of the conditions - such as, will that car be able to stop in time?

You also can't look both ways and decide it's safe it there is another intersection involved to your left or right and another car comes out of that intersection and toward you. And that happens and I hear, “It was safe. There was no traffic.” Well, it wasn't safe and you didn't see what could happen. When you drive you always have to be looking far, far ahead.

I hear this all the time - “It wasn't my fault; I looked; it was safe for me to turn.” If it had been safe for the turn, then the accident wouldn't have occurred.

On first reading and without research the Dennis/Teri case is different from yours - there is clear cut evidence that speed was a factor. I don't see that in your case. In fact, if your figures concerning stopping distance are to be believed, you turned out in front of her and she had one second to stop - 36.9 feet. She didn't have a chance to avoid you.

I'd be grateful nobody was hurt and there was no more damage and let the whole matter rest.

I don't think you can prove her speed was a factor.

(I believe the other driver's insurance will argue that she DID see you and DID try to avoid you and that's why your car wasn't totaled. She didn't simply drive into the side of you.)

Thank you for your response. I am not sure how the calculated time is so long. But basically what I did wasn't based on any math calculation. I just tested on my own: I drive at 25mph, and hit the break to see how long it takes to stop the car fully. If you have a chance to test it out, you will be amazed how fast the car will stop. (or perhaps my break just works really well). It's kind of interesting. Anyhow, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to answer my question. Thank you!

[ivysun99]

Left hand turns scare me to death because they have to be 60% of what I do. My particular pet peeve is those people who stand behind the white line on a green light, signalling their left-hand turn, anxiously looking at the traffic signal and oncoming traffic, clutching the steering wheel. I feel like screaming PULL INTO THE INTERSECTION AND OWN IT AND MAYBE WE'LL GET A CHANCE WHEN THE LIGHT CHANGES.

Amen.

I think in my case,

[Fr_Chuck]

The issue of speeding may make the other party partial at fault, but not to a very high percent. The driver who turned ( entered in front of moving traffic) has a responsibility to do so in a manner that is safe, ** look for oncomming cars, even if speeding.

So the car that was making the turn will have the majority of total responsibility. And the judge may award a partial responsibility
Would not try and guess at percentage, but driving making the turn would pay for most of the damages of both cars.

** also I think the damages will be a lot more money than they are guessing at

[Scleros]

I don't believe anyone's numbers.

...at 25 mph she’s traveling almost 40 feet per second (39.9, to be exact).

Huh? Are you serious?

5280 Feet = 1 Mile
60 Seconds = 1 Minute
60 Minutes = 1 Hour

25 mph = (25 x 5280) ft / hour
= (25 x 5280) ft / (60 x 60) s
= 36.7 feet per second (since we're being exact)

At 25 mph her REACTION time is 20-25 seconds;

Perhaps 2.0-2.5 seconds. You can't tell me it takes a driver nearly half a minute (30 seconds) to decide to brake, even in New York.

the STOPPING/BRAKING time (on a dry road) is 65 seconds (approximately)

Over a full minute from 25 mph. to zero, don't think so. 6.5 seconds I might buy.

That takes the other vehicle approximately (given the low side) 85 seconds to see, react and stop.

8.5 seconds?

...At 39.9 feet per second that’s slightly over 1.75 minutes, not the one second you calculated.

Even if numbers were correct, I have no idea where that number came from given you said 85 seconds just prior. 85/60 = 1.42 minutes low side, 1.5 minutes high.


:D Do insurance companies use the same math?

[Fr_Chuck]

Well I used to investigate accidents every day, but at this point since it was not in the police report, he is not going to prove anything now, no accident scene left to reconstruct most likely.

And to be honest, if I had been sent to the scene, I would have wrote the person making the left turn the ticket and went on to lunch without a second thought

[excon]

Hi, i just got in

Hello ivy:

Wadayya know about that? I'm just leaving.

excon