[speechlesstx]

"Everbody knows" means very little if we are having the same conversation two years from now. After five years of war you'd think the American public wouldn't still be having public forum discussions over the effectiveness of beating back the insurgents?! I have a brother in the fight of his life daily. Many of the Republican candidates are prepared to cede govt power to the Iraqis gradually and you know all the Democrats hopefuls are ready to redeploy asap. I think most people are going to run out of patience soon. I know I already have.

Americans as a whole can't seem to focus their attention long enough listen to someone complete a sentence, 5 years is an eternity. The problem with American patience as this post is attempting to point out is who are they listening to? In spite of all the rhetoric about how Limbaugh and Fox News dominate the media, the loudest voices have been from the left. They are louder, more persistent and their sheer number of outlets is overwhelming.

What wire service comes even close to the left leaning AP and Reuters? Can't think of any? That is because they feed the news to most of the western world's newspapers. Add the NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Boston Globe, USA Today, Time and Newsweek and that's a heck of a lot of liberal print. Then you put FNC - whose ratings are admittedly killing the rest - up against CNN, HNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and the rapidly becoming ultra-liberal NBC and you have a lot of voices out there.

I believe it's crucial for the media and the Democrats to get behind this effort in order to have success in Iraq. The jihadists, including the mad Iranian dictator are in it for the long haul and that's a huge part of the message the American people need to hear, so that the efforts of our heroes like your brother aren't in vain.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

It's a matter of perspective.... How about, he ditched them?

Oh yeah? I believe there were 29 Dems in the Senate and 42 in the house that voted for the Iraq War Resolution. Pretty much all of them have run away from their vote and their stated positions - including Hillary who only recently did so - except for Joe. He didn't run away...

[speechlesstx]

It's true, they're disavowing their votes. But, that's got nothing to do with Republican Lieberman.

Ex, come on now, you should know I'm a 'fact monger.' :D

Of 20 recent votes tracked by the Washington Post, Lieberman voted against the GOP 14 times, against the Dems twice, and 4 times with both parties. If my math is correct (and it is) he voted in agreement with the Dems 90% of that time. I bet the rest of his votes this year are of a similar percentage.

[ETWolverine]

Atually, excon, it's pretty clear that the Dems ditched Lieberman. They backed his opponent, Ned Lamont, and raised money for Lamont when he ran against Lieberman both in the primary and in the general election. He was the encumbent, but his party refused to give him any financial backing... something that is nealy unheard of in the political arena. The Democratic Party attempted to punish Lieberman for his stance on the war, and the people of Connecticut weren't having any of it. The party abandoned him, not the other way around. The history makes that pretty clear.

Elliot

[BABRAM]

"Americans as a whole can't seem to focus their attention long enough listen to someone complete a sentence, 5 years is an eternity."


Consider five minutes an eternity when your facing a daily threat to your life and always on situational guard. You miss your wife and children and the Commander in Chief recycles you back over to war twice more than expected and then extends you three to six extra months duty. We are an impatient society, but that's expected. We expect fast yields and results. Our country being relatively young has mirrored a symptom of Capitalism. There's an old saying that a fast nickel is better than a slow dime.





"The problem with American patience as this post is attempting to point out is who are they listening to? In spite of all the rhetoric about how Limbaugh and Fox News dominate the media, the loudest voices have been from the left. They are louder, more persistent and their sheer number of outlets is overwhelming."

I was listening to Limbaugh, for pure entertain purposes, back before there was a even a discussion or thought concerning left and right media, i.e. Fox News. Actually he helped fostered that idea on his radio show. It worked and with the advent and popularity of cable we now have commercialized opinionated round or slant table type discussions programs. Each claiming truth from the left and right. PBS had there usually weekly programming, but nothing like the next wave of political chatter which we've become expose to.





"What wire service comes even close to the left leaning AP and Reuters? Can't think of any? That is because they feed the news to most of the western world's newspapers. Add in the NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Boston Globe, USA Today, Time and Newsweek and that's a heck of a lot of liberal print. Then you put FNC - whose ratings are admittedly killing the rest - up against CNN, HNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and the rapidly becoming ultra-liberal NBC and you have a lot of voices out there."


I don't know how much is actually liberal based in the Democrats considering the aforementioned News media. I do believe that the party has slanted even more towards the left over the past few decades, but so has the Republicans. Republicans forty years ago would probably find fault with Fox's edition. I don't know that I need to make either of them the enemy. What the public has to be aware of is that all media outlets use journalism that's viewed through human eyes, other than our own.





"I believe it's crucial for the media and the Democrats to get behind this effort in order to have success in Iraq. The jihadists, including the mad Iranian dictator are in it for the long haul and that's a huge part of the message the American people need to hear, so that the efforts of our heroes like your brother aren't in vain."


Most of all he wants to get back home to his family. I think he would be flattered to be called a hero. Thanks. The last time I spoke with him he thought he could get back to Germany (where his family is on a US base) perhaps in January or February. He then, I think, will be coming back to the States shortly after. But in military life plans are often changed.


This war has had mismanagement issues from the equipment to the rotations of man power. On the bright side: it also has provided a means to get to the dictator Hussein and bring him to justice. We planted a seed in a forest. But we are dealing with those of a mindset going back a thousand years plus and I have my personal doubts about national stability issues regardless if we pull out now or ten years from now. I expect even with our stimulating goodwill by attempting to get their government functioning this will only be a temporary effect. To make this realistically work the way our govt wants them to act and think we would have to be a permanent part of their daily functions and the Iraqis don't want us in their affairs forever and neither do we as Americans.



Bobby