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clandestine1 · Jun 8, 2007, 10:19 PM

I'm not sure I'm looking for advice, more like a place to vent because its not something my friends will understand. I dated my friend's brother for about a year, we broke up because it was too serious and quite honestly, neither of us knew what we were doing. I was in love, he wasn't sure he was ready for that kind of commitment, he wanted to date around and see what else was out there. We tried being friends immediately after our relationship, which worked tentatively for a few months but ultimately ended badly and we stopped talking for 3 months.

So after the 3 months, we started talking online again, then hanging out. Hanging out eventually led to hooking up (think-everything but sex.) and when I told him I still had feelings for him, he said he didn't believe in dating the same person twice. Understandable. He even said I should give other guys a chance because he had been my first and only boyfriend. I waited a year after we broke up, hoping we could reconcile. Looking back, that was a very juvenile decision and waiting did nothing except waste time. (We dated when he was 20-21 and I was 18-19) and that was fair enough to point out. I told him I wanted to be with him, he said he didn't want a relationship with me or with anyone at that point in his life because he didn't want anything serious. I said okay and went ahead to go on another date with another guy. He was annoyed or maybe its an ego thing but said, "You don't have to date anyone. I'm not going to." 2 weeks later.. he was seeing someone. Asks about the guy I went on a date with, I explained it just didn't work out. He insists that he and the girl aren't serious and we should hook up, I declined because if there's someone in the picture that just didn't feel okay with me. Its not fair to her or me. So a week later he makes it a point to tell me she's now his girlfriend and they're serious. We had a huge fight about it.

As for NC.. I don't believe in using it as a game, I believe if someone wants to talk to you they will. If they don't, let it be. In this case, its been 4 months since we've talked, 6 since I've seen him face-to-face. I've dated a ton of different guys, and I've gotten over it and him as much as one can ever be over their first love.

So today, my friend (my ex's sister) and I are sitting in the window seat of dunkin donuts when her brother walks by, sees her, and comes inside. He says hi, makes small talk, he's walking up to meet with one of his guy friends. His friend comes in, says hi and they leave. An hour later she and I are still talking and the guys come back in except this time, they sit at the table next to ours and ask what we're talking about. Girl stuff. He makes more conversation, I don't say much because quite frankly, its been 4 months. Greeting him with open arms wasn't going to happen. The one time I had run into him was about 2 months after our fight where he and I used to work. Neither of us work there, but oddly enough, its where he met his new girlfriend as well. So, she was working, I was visiting old friends not knowing he or she was there, and he was picking up a last paycheck. He has us both in the same vicinity and he spent more time talking to me than he did with her. Something I felt guilty for because he went and said hi to her then spent the rest of the time catching up with me and asking if I was walking out when he was. I didn't. I just watched him go and got the hell out of there once he was gone. 2 weeks later (while she's his gf) he texts me saying, "remember when we used to..." and I didn't feel right saying anything because I don't know this girl, but I wouldn't want that done to me.

Since I'm still friends with his sister (I knew her long before I knew him) and we live 2 blocks away from each other... I knew eventually one of those awkward run-ins was bound to happen.

Needless to say... I was caught off-guard and after not seeing someone who was that much a part of your life in so long? It threw me. He's still with the girl he was with, I'm assuming its going well since its been 6 months. His sister has said time and again he has nothing against me, that if anything, he knows he f'ed it up. But I guess my question is... how do you stop wondering about the other girl? Stop questioning if he likes her more than he ever did you. Stop questioning if she's a better girlfriend? If she's making him happy and doing things you should've but never realized? I've come such a long way since everything, but I think actually being confronted with the person is like a test. Have you really moved past it? I haven't thought about this in months. I thought I'd sealed the door shut because of all the hurt and pain that I just don't want to relive...

I just needed to vent =/

AKaeTrue · Jun 8, 2007, 11:08 PM

And you can vent as much as you like. LOL

I think you've maintained yourself very well.

It's not that she is a better girlfriend than you were, or if he likes her more, or
That she even makes him happier, sometimes relationships just don't mesh even though there is nothing wrong with the people involved.

He probably doesn't have anything against you, and never did to begin with.

It takes a while to let go of the feelings for a first love, but there is good news... One day you'll meet someone and realize "oh yeah, this does feel different".
You're on the right path!

Wondergirl · Jun 8, 2007, 11:19 PM

Anyone who writes as well as you do has my undying respect. You might be able to turn your post into a piece of flash fiction!

Anyway, it's been 40 years and I'm still kind of working through my own first love disaster--not in an obsessive way, not every day, but now and then something (like a song or seeing mention of a movie title from the 1960s) reminds me of regrets. Maybe it never really goes away...

clandestine1 · Jun 8, 2007, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by AKaeTrue

and you can vent as much as you like. LOL

I think you've maintained yourself very well.

It's not that she is a better girlfriend than you were, or if he likes her more, or
that she even makes him happier, sometimes relationships just don't mesh even though there is nothing wrong with the people involved.

He probably doesn't have anything against you, and never did to begin with.

It takes a while to let go of the feelings for a first love, but there is good news...One day you'll meet someone and realize "oh yeah, this does feel different".
You're on the right path!

Thank you both for your replies... and for the compliment on my writing. I actually started as an English major, but that's besides the point lol...

With us... we didn't "mesh" because I wanted a relationship and he was never in it completely. He even said our age difference was a problem because he wanted someone older with more experience, and I respected that. The girl he's seeing now is 19 (a yr or so younger than I am) and he's turning 23 in 2 weeks. She seems like a very nice young woman, but another thing I came across? When I was hanging out with his sister we stopped by her house when he wouldn't be home a couple of weeks ago (she's empathetic to the situation) and we were upstairs in her room. His room is right next to hers and the door was open so just passing you can see the dominant wall. I'd never go in there, as that would be an invasion of space/privacy; however, I did see the star I'd named after him still hanging on his wall. I know its probably a trophy, an ego boost to remind himself its from someone who was head over heels for him, but... that tugged at my heart a bit. Its been about 2 years since we dated and he still kept it. Not only kept it, but kept the certificate hanging on his wall where its always been.

Last year for his birthday, it was right around the time we'd just started talking again and I made him a birthday card since I wasn't working at the time. I walked over and gave it to him, he was surprised (admitted months later that he kept it), we hugged, talked, hung out and hooked up a week later. So if we didn't mesh... I guess what I don't understand is the in-between. He moves on, I move on, yet when we start talking/hanging out again we end up in the same place. Granted, I'll probably never hear from him again after today, but it did get me thinking about the past. Before he and this girl got together, he'd send me lyrics and I (being overly analytical) thought they meant something. They were all love lyrics or missing someone and wanting it back so... I asked and he said I was wrong, that it didn't mean anything. Fair enough. In 2 weeks, I have no intentions of doing anything for his birthday this year because she IS in the picture and That's reality. But it feels good to come here to this site and just... let it out. The star certificate... was a huge moment in our relationship, one that neither of us ever forgot. I'm guessing all it is is a memento, but if he has a new girlfriend... shouldn't he not have that and everything else from me around his room?

As for your first love wondergirl... thank you for being so open about not truly being past it. I honestly don't believe you will ever be over your first, you just learn to deal with it differently.

I've met and dated plenty of guys since... I just don't understand why my stomach still flops, you know? Or if I hear the songs that he used to send... its bittersweet. I don't know. Now I'm just.. rambling.

mckenzie134 · Jun 9, 2007, 03:27 AM

You prob;y will never get over your first love and may feel like you will never love someone like that again...

This may be true but over time you will learn how to handle the feelings.

You may meet someone new and fall in love with them and live your life together and you may say one day I still loved my ex the most but that is a part of life...

My ex girlfriend who I loved she told me she only tells the person she's going to spend her life with that she loves them I don't know how she worked that out she told me she loved me then dumped me. But well some people hold the feelings in so if it doesn't work out they won't be as hurt, I was with her 3 1/2 years and she held it in, Some people deal with things in different ways...

talaniman · Jun 9, 2007, 07:33 AM

I think your very mature about this whole experience, and its so normal to have thoughts of the first serious love. Just don't over think it, and start to ask questions only he can answer, like what's in his room. Other than that, you sound so mature and emotionally healthy. Many in your shoes over think things, and end up in a state of unhealthy obsession, preventing them from dealing with the realities of life, and get stuck in there own fantasy.

clandestine1 · Jun 10, 2007, 06:52 PM

Despite being mature and taking it all in stride, I'm conflicted with the same thing many others on this board are conflicted with: His birthday is this week, do I text him a simple Happy Birthday after months of not talking? I feel that is disrespectful to the new gf; however, in September he called to wish me a happy birthday so I'm not sure if the cordial thing is to return the gesture?

Wondergirl · Jun 10, 2007, 08:11 PM

I vote no. Your birthday was in September; now it's June. You've moved on.

clandestine1 · Jun 21, 2007, 02:52 AM

UPDATE: I didn't contact my ex on his birthday, and ended up respecting myself a lot more for it. I also felt stronger for not being weak and contacting him, though I was tempted to. I do still love him, and I know that any contact would just result in the cyclic effect because it will show once again, I'm there. I hope it does show him I'm not that same weak, whipped, took whatever she could get girl. I also think that if anything were to ever come from this situation, it would have to be him seeking me out, as I've done so more than enough in the past. If not, I at least have myself respect and I do just fine out on the dating scene without having to dwell on if he'll come around or not.

clandestine1 · Jun 21, 2007, 02:54 AM

I think it's a great idea for all of us to come here and support each other! Here's my story, since we're war buddies and all... its long, but it flows if you take the time to read it to maybe understand my situation and offer words of encouragement/support/opinions, etc.

My situation is kind of different, as I wasn't the dumpee, more like it was a mutual breakup 2 years ago. We dated for 10 1/2 months, broke up, stayed very close right after breaking up, and eventually had a falling out. He'd been blowing me off, then, being all cute with me until he blew me off for a girl he'd just met. Then, reamed me a new one because things with them didn't work out and he went on to list every single thing that was wrong with me and how he would find someone so much better easily. I said that if he felt that way, it wouldn't be much of a loss for me to no longer be in his life. How could I stay friends with someone I still had feelings for who could try to make me feel so low about myself? So 3 months of no contact was relatively easy, until his college graduation came up. Since we live 2 blocks away and his sister is (til this day) one of my best friends (we were friends long before I dated her brother), I thought about sending a card but decided to just send a simple text. That opened up Pandora's box, as we began talking daily online.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but he would send me lyrics to songs line by line( only certain parts of the song not the whole thing) and they were all about missing someone you love, trying to be with someone new but still wanting the other person back, etc. He used to do that when we were dating, send me a text with lyrics that he said reminded him of me, so I thought that was the case here. Or he would tell me to download a song, and we talked like everything was fine, still calling each other by the nicknames we had while dating. When I asked him if it meant anything, he became extremely defensive, saying they were just songs he liked, that it didn't mean anything. I accepted that, but told him I was still in love with him and wanted to try again.

His response was he wasn't ready for a serious relationship with me or anyone and that he felt things with us always turned serious whereas he could be dating around and having fun. A couple of weeks later, we went to a movie and a drive, listening to music. Another night we went to the beach and drove around just talking. Each night ended with us hugging, until one night we ended up hooking up. That led to more nights of hanging out/hooking up, and I thought something good would come of it. At that point last summer we'd been apart a little over a year, he'd been with other girls and I hadn't dated around much. I let it ride out a little bit to see how things progressed on their own, but felt we should talk about it before things went any further.

One night I brought up getting back together and he said he would never date the same person twice and whereas he knows I'm "always there for him", he just didn't want a relationship. He said I need to "give other guys a chance." So I did exactly that and went on a date with a guy who had shown interest. When my ex asked about the guy I was upfront with him and said I had gone out with him, and he was visibly annoyed. He said, "You don't have to date anyone! Its not like I'm going to." Considering he'd just told me he had no intentions of dating the same person twice, why should I put my life on hold? So, I continued seeing this new guy and my ex went off on me online one night, saying how I should "share the wealth" and hook up with him (meaning he was saying I should hook up with the guy I went on a date with, being a real jerk about it), making me sound like some kind of floozy.

For the record, I didn't even kiss the guy, let alone anything else. He chose that moment to tell me he'd met someone, too, that she was a year younger than me (she's 19, 3 years younger than him-then 22) and that he "really liked her" and hed "kissed her right after they hung out for the first time." 2 weeks later... he said she was his girlfriend and they "were serious" and was annoyed that I didn't think we should talk while he had someone in his life. When he found out things didn't work out with me and the other guy (he was hung up on his ex, too, go figure), he suggested I come over and we hook up. I said no, he apologized. A month later I get a text from him saying, "Hey, remember when we used to . . ." filling in the "..." with a sexual reference. That's the day my NC started. I didn't justify that text with an answer, he was seeing someone and I have a black and white mentality when it comes to cheating: you don't do it! Nor do you insult me AND your girlfriend by continuing to try and be cute with me while seeing her!

I've dated other guys, I've spent the last 4 months rebuilding myself, as it felt like breaking up all over again after spending 6 months hanging out/hooking up/being coupley. Last week, I was at a coffee shop with his sister hanging out and he was passing by, saw us, then came in just to say hello. I was cordial, though caught off-guard as I haven't seen him in person in 6 months, hadn't spoken in 4. He acted normal, a little goofy, a little flirty, but then left. He returned a half hour later with his friend, this time taking the seat next to us trying to make conversation. Neither of us (his sister nor I) acknowledged him outside of his general questions about how long we'd been there, what we were discussing, how I was, etc. just went about our conversation as if he and his friend weren't there. I wasn't about to let that throw me off balance, and I still haven't contacted him, nor has he contacted me. Last night was his birthday, and though I was extremely tempted, I didn't even text him. I figured that if I DID acknowledge his birthday, he would have the upper hand in thinking, "wow, she's just waiting around for me."

Part of me thinks I should be mad, part of me wonders if he still has feelings for me and knows that shouldn't matter. He IS a good guy, and I tried being his friend last summer, but every time I let him back in I end up getting hurt all over again. And not in an I'm-the-victim way, but how many times do you let yourself go crawling back to someone before you find the self-respect to grow a backbone and stand up for yourself?

I apologize for the length of this, and the candid disclosure of any/all events above, but I do thank you for creating this thread.

Any comments on my situation... would greatly be appreciated. I know everyone has their own issues to deal with, but I still have my days where I question if I'm doing the right thing. I still have days where I wonder if this new girlfriend is being treated better than I was, and why he got with her so soon after telling me he didn't want a serious relationship? Thoughts we all have...

Is that to say that he didn't have feelings for me the whole time we were getting close again? Part of me recognizes that anything real scares him, as he's told me more than once that every girl following our relationship has "just been there." With me, it scared him because I was the first person to ever get that close to him, the first to ever say "I love you" and mean it, and he knew I wasn't going anywhere.

His biggest complaint about me was that I always have to talk about feelings and emotions, that being in a relationship took work and he wasn't ready for that. He wanted to "go out with a girl and talk about **** that doesn't matter."

Sorry, not trying to defend him, but I always figured it was that I got too close and he got scared because he wasn't emotionally mature enough to face his feelings. One thing that always stuck with me that he said months ago was that when he starts to feel something, he can take detach himself from a situation so that he doesn't have to feel anything at all. Especially when it came to love because he didn't know how to reciprocate that with anyone, other than his family, and he wasn't sure he'd ever be ready for it.

talaniman · Jun 21, 2007, 07:43 AM

Wow sounds like you are adjusting very well, and are doing great, so I wish you continued success, and you find the happiness you deserve. And thanks for letting us know that when things are handled in a healthy responsible way it comes out pretty good.

emopunk7 · Jun 21, 2007, 08:40 AM

Forget him... You know you're better off.

cute43male · Jun 21, 2007, 11:13 AM

Study this:
Guide to second chances. - LoveShack.org Community Forums

You don't sound like a girl that should be left on the back burner to me. Respect yourself, like you said, and don't accept second-class treatment.

clandestine1 · Jun 21, 2007, 05:00 PM

Anything anyone wants to say... more than willing to hear it. It helps to hear someone else's perspective on things...

shygrneyzs · Jun 21, 2007, 05:09 PM

This guy does not want you but does want you. Can you see the problem? He cannot make something with you but he does not want anyone else to either. He has some serious issues and you are better off to stay away from him. Seriously.

Meeting other people, even if you do not date the guys, is important for you to do. Getting involved in different activities so you meet a wide variety of people - guys and girls - so that you see life from different angles. If you have extra time, volunteer that time to someplace that would appreciate you.

You do not need to be on a yo-yo with this guy. He is running your life, whether you want to believe that or not. Get your life back and stay in charge of your own life - do not ever allow someone else to mess with your head like this guy does.

clandestine1 · Jun 21, 2007, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by shygrneyzs

This guy does not want you but does want you. Can you see the problem? He cannot make something with you but he does not want anyone else to either. he has some serious issues and you are better off to stay away from him. Seriously.

Meeting other people, even if you do not date the guys, is important for you to do. Getting involved in different activities so you meet a wide variety of people - guys and girls - so that you see life from different angles. If you have extra time, volunteer that time to someplace that would appreciate you.

You do not need to be on a yo-yo with this guy. He is running your life, whether you want to believe that or not. Get your life back and stay in charge of your own life - do not ever allow someone else to mess with your head like this guy does.

That makes a lot of sense, and I appreciate your honesty. I guess my question is, will his new girlfriend get treated the same way? For example: Recently, he was talking to a group of people he hadn't seen in awhile and mid-conversation, the girl came over, grabbed his arm and led him away because she wanted to leave. I just want to know if it's a "me" issue that makes him want me/not want me or if its just him?

clandestine1 · Jun 21, 2007, 08:22 PM

This is bugging the hell out of me. My friends girlfriend is 19, I'm 21, he's 23. We all worked together, until he quit to pursue his career. Nevertheless, he'll come in and hang out, talk to everyone he used to work with and I guess to see the girlfriend as well. A bunch of us were talking to him and the girlfriend comes over, takes his arm, & goes, "We're going to lunch." Then pulls him away. I'm 21 and I've never treated a guy I'm dating like that, and what bothers me is she pushes him around like she's the older one in the relationship. He's my friend and no-I don't have feelings for him like that, but it grates on my last nerve to see that he'll let this girl kick him around. I'm close friends with his ex-girlfriend and she treated him so much better, even he's said that. So why be with this 19 year old, clingy girl?

starscollide · Jun 21, 2007, 08:45 PM

People don't change because you want them to, they only change when THEY want to. In your case... he didn't change his behaviors and doesn't seem to think there's anything wrong with the way he acts. So its very likely he will have the same behavior with the new girlfriend, as he hasn't done anything to work on his issues. You can't fix him, his issues are HIS issues.

You state that she's 19 and he's 23 and she leads him away while he was talking to people? She's immature, and obviously sounds clingy. He will only continue to put up with that to ease the situation, to go along with it for now to keep things going smoothly. He obviously has self-esteem issues if he'll let someone do that.

Be happy he's out of your life!

kishimoto · Jun 21, 2007, 09:01 PM

Jealous and possessive and you're not even a couple. Friendship, like relationships takes effort from both parties. It looks as though he is still wanting to have other relationships, but would like you there as some sort of 'comfort-girl'. He knows you're there for him and thinks he can hook-up with you at whim.

Is he really someone you want to wait for while he is 'maturing'? He has repeatedly treated you poorly when its obvious to anyone reading that you deserve better. He may be a good guy as you say, but his actions ae immature and insensitive to you. What makes him so special that your willing to go through so much hurt? Has he changed in the time that you have known him?

It's hard when you have a history with someone. At some vulnerable moment those old feelings surface and you're in for a world of hurt as has already happened. Does it benefit you in some way to remain friends?

As for the new girlfriend most likely he is using her as some emotional crutch. Sometimes we're in relationships not for the love, but just for the intimate contact with someone else, so we don't feel so alone. And it masks old hurt. But does it matter? He has another girlfriend. Maybe he treats her better. Maybe he doesn't. Point is he is with someone else, and he made it clear that its not you, and he tried to press the point by saying it was serious so soon after saying that he doesn't want a serious relationship to you. That shows malice.

Someone gave me some advice about differing wants/needs in a relationship. You want a serious relationship and be free to talk about feelings and emotions. He wants a casual relatioship where he can get laid and talk sh*t. You know it'd never work. You've been there before. People don't change (much).

Staying friends just leaves the opportunity to be hurt again. And having hang around my impede you from forming new beneficial relationships. You did just fine for 4 months without him. I think you can do just just fine without him indefinitely. You sound as though you haven't completely let go. You deserve better.

huno · Jun 21, 2007, 09:10 PM

To begin with, I think he's immature. The episode where he rattled off all your deficiencies is very telling.

Given that, I think that he isn't really ready to handle true relationships; rather, he's still struggling with his emotions and can't reconcile them. He probably does like you--to a degree--but it seems to me that there are other girls he'd like to be with and so can't make a commitment. There are probably things about you he doesn't like, others that he does, and so it is with other girls he meets. There's probably not one that is 100% to his liking so he skips around between whichever girl will give him some attention.

So, that's him. YOU, on the other hand, are clearly still attracted to him, even a little infatuated. You've tried getting back with him in the hopes that you can re-build the commitment he once had, but I don't believe that's possible with him. He doesn't want a commitment--he wants to gratify his emotions in the moment. That's why you two were hooking up instead of being a couple.

You are best off without him, unless you're okay with being his on again-off again girlfriend.