[joypulv]

No one likes a multi-faceted problem.
1. Education worries about math and science competition with the world and not about trades.
2. Too many young adults don't care about learning skills. They feel entitled.
2.a. Too many single parent households.
3. Huge corporations do get richer and richer, with their vast departments of accountants, lawyers, and lobbyists.
4. Social programs meant to 'help' end up creating more and more welfare mentality among too many.

Demanding 15/hr serves to perpetuate all all the other wrongs.
Having tax dollars subsidize low wage workers does the same thing.

One starter solution: raise the minimum to 9 (Robert Reich's calculated suggestion) or 10.10 as seems to be one favorite, and tell all workers with public benefits that they have 4 years to complete at least 1 year of a training program through the Education Connection.

[talaniman]

no one likes a multi-faceted problem.

Bingo >tried to make all caps<

Its a lot of work and many moving parts. But doing nothing is unacceptable.

[speechlesstx]

Who cares about another astroturf demonstration meant to line the pockets of the ever shrinking unions and their bosses.

[talaniman]

The ever shrinking unions, the ever shrinking middle class. Coincidence? You better care because your future earnings are tied to union success. Its simple, costs are rising and your paycheck ain't.

But you can get a part time job at Walmart. No union dues there either. How come you aren't moving up the ladder in your job like Tom is? You must not be busting your butt like those lazy burger flippers.

[speechlesstx]

Who said anything about us not moving up? Not I. What I said was thanks to your idea of fairness YOU are making us poorer.

[paraclete]

so speech should the poor starve or be without medical care? just because your idea of fairness is to accumulate

[speechlesstx]

You obviously haven't read my comments either as that could not be further from the truth.

[paraclete]

let's look at this multi-faceted problem

To deal with a multi-faceted problem you break it into each of it's facets and tackle each one individually

So problem number one; entry level jobs have a rate too low to be attractive and offer real income
problem number two; increase in rates might mean layoffs problem. number three; higher minimum means higher youth wage. problem number four; we don't want to pay anyone more money, no way

[tomder55]

Hello again, tom:
THIS is an EXCELLENT example of right wingers NOT understanding the market place..

First off, Micky D's IS as automated as it can be. What possibly makes you think they aren't? Your WRONGHEADED assumption, is that WHEN they come up with a NEW way to automate, they'll put it on the shelf because they'll have to fire a few employees...

??????

excon

In 2011, Annie Lowrey wrote about the burgeoning tablet-as-waiter business. She focused on a startup firm called E La Carte, which makes a table tablet called Presto. “Each console goes for $100 per month. If a restaurant serves meals eight hours a day, seven days a week, it works out to 42 cents per hour per table — making the Presto cheaper than even the very cheapest waiter. Moreover, no manager needs to train it, replace it if it quits, or offer it sick days. And it doesn’t forget to take off the cheese, walk off for 20 minutes, or accidentally offend with small talk, either.”

Applebee’s is using the Presto. Are we really supposed to believe that the chain will keep thousands of redundant human staffers on the payroll forever?

People don’t go into business to create jobs; they go into business to make money. Labor is a cost. The more expensive labor is, the more attractive nonhuman replacements for labor become. The minimum wage makes labor more expensive. Obama knows this, which is why he so often demonizes ATM machine as job-killers

Get set for the rise of the machines | New York Post

[paraclete]

you don't get it automation means no jobs, these low level jobs are important but it is always the low level jobs that get automated first, it is because they are a process that can be reduced to a few steps, if they are not taken by some idiot in India who doesn't know his a$$ from his apex they are automated.

This may be progress but it is wrong because people need meaningful work and if it is not there they become a statistic. No computer can yet do what I do because I am a reasoning being, my thought processes cannot be reduced to simple computer logic or a set of steps

When this rise of the machines gets here, I will be gone and so will my unique talents

[joypulv]

People need work; meaningful work is something they have to work for on their own time, by acquiring skills or starting their own business.

We in the US knew for decades that manufacturing was leaving in droves, and we did NOTHING at any but in band-aid ways.

China said OOPS, we are doing all the manufacturing and none of the design, and started investing in some serious education. We think we are doing that, but we are lumping all kids together, trying to turn all of them into the best of the best, instead of guiding each one on a path right for his abilities. This doesn't have to be a railroad job, starting too young as people used to claim. It can start in high school. Learn for what jobs are out there on the large scale, not the elite ones. Nurture the elite ones too.

[talaniman]

Applebee's is using the Presto. Are we really supposed to believe that the chain will keep thousands of redundant human staffers on the payroll forever?

Having been through upgrading through automation you still need humans to fix the glitches and maybe they get away with reducing the number of humans, somebody has to bring the food to the table and clear the dishes. The job changes but sending a steak back still needs a human.

And you need a tech team.

@joy,

Did nothing as jobs left is an understatement, as it left a lot of people behind trying to catch up, but that's the free market, and it's a broken business model too expensive for the average worker. We are finding the needs of the young to have an entry level experience are overlapping with the needs of the older displaced worker with obligations and dependents.

Those entry level jobs have become jobs to compete for and not just young kids living with parents, and there are few choices since banks are tight on loaning money to new entrepreneurs.

[Wondergirl]

And someone still has to chop the onions and saute them. And roast the lamb. And slice the beef. And add the sprig of parsley to the plate before the (human) waitress takes it to the customer.

I'm waiting for high schools (and even earlier) to wake up and start thinking seriously about vocational guidance of their students (not just college prep).

[tomder55]

And someone still has to chop the onions and saute them. And roast the lamb. And slice the beef. And add the sprig of parsley to the plate before the (human) waitress takes it to the customer.

I'm waiting for high schools (and even earlier) to wake up and start thinking seriously about vocational guidance of their students (not just college prep).

A White Castle VP came right out and said a doubling of the min wage will result in layoffs because the company would be forced to close down more than 200 franchises.
I agree with you about vocational ed. People trained in skilled trades command higher starting salaries ,and are more likely to open their own private business .
I love the outrage here . Obamacare forced many small businesses to reduce many of their staff to part timers and there doesn't seem to be a peep of outrage about the hardship those workers are facing .

[talaniman]

Pushing for a higher minimum standard is not outrage, but sticking to a broken business model instead of fixing it is outrageous. Go ahead McDonald's and Walmart, start laying off half your workers because you lose a government subsidy.

I thought sucking at the government teat was against conservative principles? If corporations can't stay in business without government assistance haven't you said they should fail? Sure you have.

Bailouts anyone?

[tomder55]

Your the one that favors a tax code loaded with all types of deductions and built in subsidies . I don't favor that ,you do.

[talaniman]

Mine are for the people who get up early and do the less glamorous low paying jobs who don't have lobbyist, lawyers and accountants and off shore accounts and stick silver spoons in their kids mouth. Average people.

You know, the ones who got the trickle cut off.

[paraclete]

you don't get it still, If having to pay a "minimum wage" is going to put someone out of business you have to ask how well were they doing anyway, perhaps they just have too many minimum wage employees and not enough peoplewho can think and organise to get more productivity so there can be less people paid more and the business make more through efficiency. I wonder why is it I have to keep correcting your thinking? Have you been brainwashed?

[tomder55]

White Castle is a major privately held franchise that's been around since 1921 . Tell your tale to their VP Jamie Richard.

[paraclete]

ah a 90 year old company is like a 90 year old man, ready for the grave. In a company like that fresh thinking comes slow and adaptation comes slow too. The business model may have worked way back when, but this is a different age. Seems you might need to employ a more up to date business model.

We had a company with an old adagea as a motto "while I live I grow" after a 130 years it stopped growing and it no longer exists