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talaniman · Oct 16, 2013, 06:30 AM

You guys are good in the house with all these symbolic votes that can go nowhere because they are partisan and just not happening, but when it comes to doing your job, you FAILED. Even by shutting down the government, you have FAILED, because your job was to keep it functional and open. No where in the constitution that you claim to know about is there a shutdown clause.

But if congress keeps failing to do its job, there is a clause for the president to act and do his, and if it comes to it, I think he will. You guys will get mad and threaten and try the impeachment thing, but again you will FAIL! Now he has been quite clear, he will not negotiate, and YOU the congress, not just the caca sandwich group but the entire congress must do their job.

Hollering and screaming because your crap has been rejected, does not relieve you of responsibility to do your jobs and make an acceptable to all, NOT just loonyville bill to get government open and functional, and bonehead can still bring a full vote of the house on the senate bill at the last minute, and he probably will.

That would be doing HIS job. Whether the TParty likes it or NOT. Good luck if you think you can stop everybody else from doing their job.

talaniman · Oct 16, 2013, 06:38 AM

Keep hollering and screaming FOUL, but facts are, the TParty is a minority still in government, and don't have the votes to demand a damn thing, and if Bonehead had put a boot up your butts instead of coddle you like babies, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Elections do have consequences and you don't get to ignore that fact.

tomder55 · Oct 16, 2013, 06:47 AM

Show me the clause where there is a binding duty to keep the national government open . James Madison warned about the dangers of factionalism, but he thought that the differences would be offset by the checks and balances. However ,to your point... the government was not in operation for many months in the early days of the republic. There was no need for a huge 24/7/365 operational behometh . That is the invention of the progressive era. Another thing they didn't count on was the rise of the career politician ,or the absence of a balanced budget... the out of control debt accumulation by the never satisfied trough suckers .

tomder55 · Oct 16, 2013, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Keep hollering and screaming FOUL, but facts are, the TParty is a minority still in government, and don't have the votes to demand a damn thing, and if Bonehead had put a boot up your butts instead of coddle you like babies, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Elections do have consequences and you don't get to ignore that fact.

I already addressed the point that indeed elections have consequences. Congress was also elected ;and they all ran on the position of reigning in out of control spending and getting rid of Obamacare .

speechlesstx · Oct 16, 2013, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

I dunno. Looks to ME like you're salivating over the default like a nice juicy steak. You're going for the hat trick here, aren't you?? Sequester, shutdown, and default... It's a right wingers wet dream.

excon

I see you got the talking points.

talaniman · Oct 16, 2013, 07:15 AM

Okay that's cool, but the TParty doesn't have the votes despite why they came to congress. You cannot ignore the plain fact that following the TParty is following a minority, and for whatever reason repubs are following them, it leads to FAILURE, and disaster.

Only you guys believe Ted Cruz is the savior for conservatives and he has already FAILED to lead or influence the senate. I mean headlines ain't support, or votes. Maybe next election, but certainly not this one.

No Tom, your noisy minority rules isn't going to work. IT will FAIL. Nice try though.

talaniman · Oct 16, 2013, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Show me the clause where there is a binding duty to keep the national government open . James Madison warned about the dangers of factionalism, but he thought that the differences would be offset by the checks and balances. However ,to your point... the government was not in operation for many months in the early days of the republic. There was no need for a huge 24/7/365 operational behometh . That is the invention of the progressive era. Another thing they didn't count on was the rise of the career politician ,or the absence of a balanced budget... the out of control debt accumulation by the never satisfied trough suckers .

People and the whole freakin' world has changed since the beginnings of this country and there are more things to consider than just the original intent of meeting the needs of a nation that's pheasants and farmers.

You just cannot imagine that Madison and Jefferson would be freaked out by the notions of A bombs and Wall Street, and 360 million people and a minority of them farmers. They too would be forced to dealing with the reality of the world they live in.

Deal with the changes and make adjustments, because thing have changed, and will continue to change whether you like it, or NOT. I mean the wheel was a great idea, but we replaced the horses with motors a long time ago.

Not saying nostalgia is a bad thing, but reality is a beeyatch to deal with if you don't want to. Fact is, its 2013, NOT 1776. Embrace that fact if nothing else because Madison and Jefferson, ain't here to decide what we should do that's best for the nation. We are.

Show me the clause where there is a binding duty to keep the national government open .

You have already quoted it.

tomder55 · Oct 16, 2013, 07:40 AM

Only you guys believe Ted Cruz is the savior for conservatives and he has already FAILED to lead or influence the senate. I mean headlines ain't support, or votes. Maybe next election, but certainly not this one.

I don't know how this will play out . Maybe I'm taking the long view of this . Maybe Goldwater got trounced ,and Reagan had to lose to the beltway insider Rockefeller Repubics before he took control of the party and was twice elected . Sometimes a losing battle is worth fighting .
I know what your side wants... an opposition party that isn't really an opposition party.

tomder55 · Oct 16, 2013, 07:43 AM

You just cannot imagine that Madison and Jefferson would be freaked out by the notions of A bombs and Wall Street, and 360 million people and a minority of them farmers. They too would be forced to dealing with the reality of the world they live in.

Oh they'd be freaked out all right... at the size of government and the scope of it's power and control over the people. Jefferson argued that there should be periodic revolution to guard against the very thing this nation has become.

tomder55 · Oct 16, 2013, 07:45 AM

Quote:
Show me the clause where there is a binding duty to keep the national government open .

You have already quoted it.

No I haven't . The government has to pay it's debt . There is nothing that says it has to stay continuosly in operation.

talaniman · Oct 16, 2013, 07:45 AM

We have revolutions every two years, what kind of revolution are YOU talking about?

talaniman · Oct 16, 2013, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

No I haven't . The government has to pay it's debt . There is nothing that says it has to stay continuosly in operation.

The people have said that's what we want, and the 17% that's shutdown has pissed the American people off. Everybody but the TParty loony's, and the 20' something percent.

tomder55 · Oct 16, 2013, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

We have revolutions every two years, what kind of revolution are YOU talking about?

Not what I'm talking about... what Jefferson was talking about . But you are wrong . Elections are not revolutions .They are very much part of our system of governace .
I'll give you Jefferson's direct quote...

God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

talaniman · Oct 16, 2013, 07:57 AM

I ask again what kind of revolution are YOU talking about? Jefferson's opinion is irrelevant to me. And he ain't here is he?

tomder55 · Oct 16, 2013, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

I ask again what kind of revolution are YOU talking about? Jefferson's opinion is irrelevant to me. And he ain't here is he?

My reply was self explanatory and in context to your remark .
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NeedKarma · Oct 16, 2013, 08:05 AM

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Yes! Do it!

talaniman · Oct 16, 2013, 08:10 AM

Are you advocating a second amendment remedy?

tomder55 · Oct 16, 2013, 08:13 AM

I advocated nothing . You are not that slow... so you are being intentionally provocative.

tomder55 · Oct 16, 2013, 08:16 AM

If you are looking for something I advocate ;then all you have to do is read my previous comment before you dug Jefferson from his grave.
Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - Should we DEFAULT, or maybe not?

earl237 · Oct 16, 2013, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Not what I'm talking about... what Jefferson was talking about . But you are wrong . Elections are not revolutions .They are very much part of our system of governace .
I'll give you Jefferson's direct quote...

When Timothy McVeigh was arrested after the Oklahoma City bombing, he was wearing a shirt with the "tree of liberty" quote, so it's not a good idea to be using it here.