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duchesslana · Oct 14, 2009, 02:24 PM

HELP! :eek:

I am starting my 3rd winter in this house. 1st winter all radiators worked. 2nd winter all radiators worked until mid winter then 2 radiators on the second floor stopped working. This year I turned on the system and non of the radiators on the 2nd floor are working.

I have 7 radiators.

3 on the main floor - these all work great. I bled them until water came out of the valve.
4 on the 2nd floor - bled them. Some of them had the air hissing out at first but after a few seconds the hissing stopped. The valves have been open for 2-3 days and still no water coming out of them.

My boiler is in the basement. It is run by gas. The expansion tank is on top of the boiler. The expansion tank seems to be half full when the system is hot or cold. I would think that it would be emptier when it is cold. But not sure if this is correct.

There is a red oblong shaped item about 10 inches tall and 6 inches wide. This is attached between the boiler and the hot water heater and cold water intake from the main line. I believe this is an auto refill of sorts. I think it uses water from the hot water heater so it doesn't shock the system with cold water. Is this correct?

There is also a pressure relief valve between the boiler and the expansion tank. When you lift this valve water drains out of the system.

There is also a small rectangular box that says "Honeywell" (brand/company name") with a dial that is set at 140. This box is also located between the expansion tank and the boiler.

There is some sort of electrical wire that runs to the largest pipe just above the boiler. I have no clue what that is for.

The gauge above the boiler reads 30 feet and 6 lbs per square inch. I have read several post saying that the psi needs to be at least 12. But I am unable to increase this. How do I increase the psi. Most post I read say to use the relief valve to let water in. I don't seem to have such a valve. The one on top of the red oblong thing doesn't seem to do anything and the other just lets water out.

This is what I have tried. I first tried bleeding all the radiators but the second floor radiators won't bleed out. Today I shut off all the radiators but 2 on the second floor. Thinking I could force all the hot water just to these 2 radiators. Nothing. I did notice that the hot water isn't even attempting to go up the pipes. When I am in the basement and follow the pipes you can feel where the hot water meets the cold.

So I need help.

How do I increase the pressure in my system? Is there just not enough water in it? Maybe my auto refill is not letting water in. How do I know if the auto refill is working?

I need help. It is very cold in my house and it will be a long winter if I can't get this up and running! I am very confused :confused: and am getting very frustrated. :(

Thanks!

Duchess Lana

hvac1000 · Oct 14, 2009, 02:37 PM

The reason the second floor radiators will not bleed is because you do not have enough altitude/pressure in the boiler. You increase the pressure by adjusting the automatic water feed valve/pressure reducing valve. 12 pounds pressure is usually about right but sometimes it will take a pound or 2 more depending upon the actual height of the structure.

Go to this site for all the info you will need on boilers.

Guide to Automatic & Manual Water Feeder Valves for Hot Water & Steam Boilers

duchesslana · Oct 14, 2009, 03:53 PM

Ok. I don't understand how to let the water in to increase the pressure. All the valves are open but nothing seems to be happening. The red oblong thing is a Bell & Gossett #500. There is a valve on top that I have lifted and turned. There is also a valve on the side that I also have turned. Nothing seems to happen.

Now what?

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 14, 2009, 04:05 PM

Can you post some pictures of the items you are talking about, and please label them what you call them.. Also, how many thermostats do you have in the home? How many pumps on boiler system(or do you have zone valves?). I agree with hvac1000, 6psi at boiler is to low of pressure to let upstairs registers work correctly. There are ways to increase pressure without the pressure reducing valve, but I wouldn't suggest anyone but a pro doing this. Hope you can show us some pics, and we may be able to help you out with this.

duchesslana · Oct 14, 2009, 06:21 PM

Pictures of my unit are attached.

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 14, 2009, 06:40 PM

Ouch, can't help you with this one, I can only suggest upgrading to a newer boiler with recirc pumps. I try to stick to a rule of thumb that I won't give repair advice on items that are older than me(and this is way older than me, I'm guessing its more like the age of my great grandfather.. lol). Hope one of the other boiler pros can give you better advice on curing your problem with your current boiler. Sorry I couldn't help, I just don't have the experience with this type of system(I believe you have a gravity system). Take care, and please let me know how you make out. Lee.

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 14, 2009, 06:45 PM

hvac1000,, Im really curious about your thoughts on this boiler,, I've seen them before, but my only experiecne with them was breaking them down, and hauling them to the dump. Can you help me learn a bit about them, so I can try to service them in the future.

duchesslana · Oct 14, 2009, 06:51 PM

Thanks for the attempted help mygirlsdad77. Maybe we will both learn something about this unit.

It definitely is a gravity system. There is no circulation pump. The boiler itself works very well. Heats quickly.

I did have someone come in a year ago to quote me on replacing it. But the price was just way to high. Unless of course I went with forced air. Don't want forced air - especially with my high allergy problems.

Thanks again.

Anyone else have any ideas on how to increase my PSI?

hvac1000 · Oct 14, 2009, 08:19 PM

Post the exact part numbers off the tag on the Red valve in the picture. Tag looks to be at bottom of valve.

duchesslana · Oct 14, 2009, 08:27 PM

The tag reads

#500
Relief valve set at 30lbs
Reducing valve 12lbs
Manufactured by Bell & Gossett Company
Morton Grove, IL

hvac1000 · Oct 14, 2009, 08:51 PM

OK that number is not bring up anything. Please if you will look again and look around the valve for other numbers. I know this is a combo valve by looking at it but I need to know exactly what it was designed to do since it has a flip design

duchesslana · Oct 14, 2009, 09:12 PM

OK.. I see a 7 P stamped on it.

Then where each of the pipes are hooked up to it says "boiler" "inlet" and "strainer"
There is something printed above the silver knob and I can't quite make it out in the picture it is the silver thing on the right. It looks like "01 poad" but that doesn't seem right. That was very hard to read.

Other than than I didn't see anything else written or stamped on it.

duchesslana · Nov 3, 2009, 04:23 PM

Ok guys! Help! I was advised to replace the red Bell & Gosset #500 with the F-3 Dual Unit Valve w/ Fast Fill.

So I have it unstalled the new unit and now I have to refill the system. When I lift the fast fill lever I get water coming out of the drain pipe. I am pretty sure some water is getting into the system but not sure how much. Is the water suppose to come out of the drain pipe? This is frustrating because I am empting lots of buckets of water that is coming from the drain pipe. I feel that there shouldn't be water coming from here or at least not this much.

I have been using the fast fill lever for about an hour but I don't seem to be getting any pressure increase. How long does this take? I have all the bleed valves open and the boiler is currently off and about 75 degrees.

duchesslana · Nov 4, 2009, 10:48 PM

Ok! Problem is solved and system is up and running!

For those of you reading this thread this is what I did. I replaced the red B & G #500 valve with a B & G F - 3 dual valve and the pipes going in and out of the valve. The pipes and valve were very clogged and water could not go in to the valve or out of the valve.

Once the pipes were replaced then the system filled beautiful with no draining from the drain pipe on the drain valve. The refill was actually pretty quick. I would say about 20 minutes until I had all 7 radiators bled.

Total cost of repairs was around $100 and 8 hours of my time. The service tech that originally came out wanted $1200 plus for the job. I definitely saved money on this job. I also learned a lot on how my heating system worked.

Thanks to all who helped me!

jamienoheat · Oct 30, 2011, 12:29 PM

I think I am having the same problems. The furance seems to be heating up but the pipes to the radiator's are not getting hot. I just don't know!! There's no pressure and if there is it doesn't show on the pressure thingy (yes I said thingy) I tried bleeding the radiator's and nothing... no hissing... no water! If you could help that would be awesome, or at least give me an idea of where to start!! Sorry didn't mean to hijack your thread!