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msonick · Sep 6, 2014, 07:55 AM

I was at a complete stop on a (one block) street at at red traffic light that is three blocks from my home. I was approximately 8 - 10 feet behind the car in front of me. (there was a very narrow ally intersection that no one really drives down - too narrow) I saw the car's reverse lights but didn't think too much - I'm 62 yrs old and been driving for a long time - but remained cautious. Then the car "gunned it" in reverse into my car. I hit my horn - but too late. The driver pulled up immediately and parked to the side of the (narrow street); she got out and asked, "Are you "OK?" We exchanged insurance info and she refused to give me her phone #. Cut to the chase. $2000 damage to my car. I was told that she said "I was driving through an alley way and hit her car!" No witnesses. No police report. I live in the city. Police don't want to deal with "fender benders." The insurance company said they will take it to arbitration - but it sounds like "her word against my word." I've never dealt with arbitration. Could they tell from the damages to both cars? My record is impeccable. Perhaps hers is not? Is that taken into account?? I am hesitant to allow repairs. I did not hit her! Should I call a lawyer?
One more thing: I've lived here for 14 years; I always take the same route to the traffic light; never take the alley way -- as she was saying. I can't believe that people blatantly lie!

talaniman · Sep 6, 2014, 08:08 AM

I hope you called the police and made a report to them so you have a record of your side, even if you have to go to the police station to do so. Take pictures and have your car fixed even if you have to sue the other driver later. A lot depends on your specific policy but ask your insurance carrier about whether they will pay to have your car fixed immediately.

You may well need a lawyer, or at in YOUR best interest to least consult with one. Yes, people lie,and insurance companies will try to get away with not paying for covered damages.

You should always call a cop, and wait for them after an accident.

msonick · Sep 6, 2014, 10:06 AM

Thanks talmanian. Sorry to say.. . I did not call the police. (banging head) Go to the police station? Would it be credible to go to the police station 4 days after the accident? If so I can definitely do that. I can have my car repaired immediately but I'm concerned that if MY insurance pays for my car and I don't WIN at arbitration -- then my rates go up. And.. . THEN I have a record of hitting someone that I did not hit!

I can take pictures yes. They've already done so at the body shop.

Insurance companies talk about insurance fraud. Is she not making a false claim? What are the repercussions of that??

Could I pay for the work myself - exclude the insurance company -- then just sue her and cross my fingers and trust blind justice?? I've already looked her up on the internet. She's very wealthy. I am not. Isn't that the way it usually goes? I cannot afford a bad record - increased rates -- and $500 deductible. Not when I did nothing wrong!

Wondergirl · Sep 6, 2014, 10:30 AM

Doesn't your damage and where it is give any indication of the "facts of the accident" (how you were positioned, behind her and not at an angle coming out of the alley)? Her car wasn't damaged?

talaniman · Sep 6, 2014, 10:33 AM

I think calling the police station to see if they will make a report after the fact is useful, as most states go by amount of damage, and or injuries and have different time limits for the reporting, and be aware that it will have no assessment by the police that would be helpful to you.

After the fact is essentially the area of a good lawyer to represent your interests and evaluating your chances to be compensated fairly. Rising insurance costs and a bad driving record are legit concerns to protect yourself against and it's really shameful for honest people to go through this crap (been there, done that) after obeying the law and having insurance at the same place for MANY years, DECADES even, only to have a fool screw it up in less than a second.

Call the police station and then call a lawyer. That's my advice. How much were the damages? I assume the insurance company has your side of it for arbitration, since no official police report was made by either of you. A classic split decision.

Wondergirl · Sep 6, 2014, 10:41 AM

$2000 worth of damage to the OP's car, from the first post. That seems like more than a ding and worth it to get a police report, if possible, and a lawyer.

msonick · Sep 6, 2014, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Doesn't your damage and where it is give any indication of the "facts of the accident" (how you were positioned, behind her and not at an angle coming out of the alley)? Her car wasn't damaged?

Great question! She pulled her car away quickly and about 15 feet from where I parked (when we exchanged info). I saw a dent on the passenger side of her rear bumper. I didn't think that's where she hit me but that's what her insurance co said. MY bumper had a large dent on the driver side (about a foot inside) and the hood was misaligned.) Seriously it happened so fast, I don't know what part of her car(SUV) hit me (a smaller Subaru). Can photos of her car and photos of my car show that I was NOT making a right turn out of an alley? If I was -- would I not "hit" her with my passenger corner bumper??? (I don't know if she said I was making a left or right turn on the street.)

My adjuster only talked to me on the phone. Erie insurance. I've never filed a claim. Should I request/demand that someone come and look at my car??

Ok. Thank you all so much. Your wisdom is greatly appreciated. I will go to my police station and file a report. Then I will call my lawyer. It probably won't hurt to let her insurance co know that I am contacting my lawyer.

I'm open to any other advice.

I'll keep you informed if my Police station will let me file a report. The previous day -- a tractor trailer came down my (narrow street where trucks are prohibited and hit / did damage to 5 cars. If an 18 wheeler can flee -- it was trying to do so.) Police would NOT file a report to "parked cars" although at last word there is over 10K worth of damage! I kid you not. (My car was spared. Haha)

Wondergirl · Sep 6, 2014, 11:13 AM

Yes, ask your insurance co. to send an adjuster to take photos of your damage, or you might have to go to a claims office. The damage should support your story. Hopefully, that adjuster will get pics of her damage too. All the damage should tell the story of what happened. The adjuster will probably record your and her side of things.

Alty · Sep 6, 2014, 11:26 AM

Here's the sad truth. Insurance companies don't spend time and money trying to prove negligence on a $2000 claim. It just isn't worth it to them.

Since there are no witnesses, the police weren't called (the police should be called if there's more than $1500 damages to a vehicle, before either party is allowed to leave), it would be up to you to prove that she's lying. So unless you're willing to spend a lot of money, out of pocket, to hire someone that can look at damages and determine who hit who (which isn't an exact science, and won't hold up in court), you're basically stuck. Even if you do hire someone, your insurance company likely won't care to hear a report. It's still a case of she said she said.

Having said that, I would tell your side of the story to the insurance company, insist that this not go on your record or increase your rates, since it's not your fault, and if it's a case of she said she said, then what you have to say is just as valid as what she has to say.

I'm sorry, but when dealing with insurance, it's rarely fair. :(

Wondergirl · Sep 6, 2014, 11:55 AM

Does your insurance co. have a subrogation (legal) department? The co. I used to work for (State Farm) did its best to gather all the facts, make diagrams, get recorded interviews, and always went to bat (and still does) for the insured if they believed he was not at fault. If it came down to a legal hassle, their team of lawyers continued the fight. (SF's insured didn't have to hire one.) Meanwhile, the insured's car was repaired with the hope that the other insurance company would eventually reimburse them.

msonick · Sep 6, 2014, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Yes, ask your insurance co. to send an adjuster to take photos of your damage, or you might have to go to a claims office. The damage should support your story. Hopefully, that adjuster will get pics of her damage too. All the damage should tell the story of what happened. The adjuster will probably record your and her side of things.

Thanks Wondergirl. I will do this first thing Monday a.m. (Of course I'm a single parent - with a job - so I will try to juggle all of this) but with hopes that the damage will indeed - support what happened - which also happens to be my story.

The adjuster did record (my statement) and I think -- she talked to the other driver as well OR she got her info from the other insurance company. I will ask this.

Alty · Sep 6, 2014, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by msonick

Thanks Wondergirl. I will do this first thing Monday a.m. (Of course I'm a single parent - with a job - so I will try to juggle all of this) but with hopes that the damage will indeed - support what happened - which also happens to be my story.

The adjuster did record (my statement) and I think -- she talked to the other driver as well OR she got her info from the other insurance company. I will ask this.

I'm sure that at 62 years of age, your children can take care of themselves, so you shouldn't have to juggle too much in that respect. :)

msonick · Sep 6, 2014, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Alty

Here's the sad truth. Insurance companies don't spend time and money trying to prove negligence on a $2000 claim. It just isn't worth it to them.

Since there are no witnesses, the police weren't called (the police should be called if there's more than $1500 damages to a vehicle, before either party is allowed to leave), it would be up to you to prove that she's lying. So unless you're willing to spend a lot of money, out of pocket, to hire someone that can look at damages and determine who hit who (which isn't an exact science, and won't hold up in court), you're basically stuck. Even if you do hire someone, your insurance company likely won't care to hear a report. It's still a case of she said she said.

Having said that, I would tell your side of the story to the insurance company, insist that this not go on your record or increase your rates, since it's not your fault, and if it's a case of she said she said, then what you have to say is just as valid as what she has to say.

I'm sorry, but when dealing with insurance, it's rarely fair. :(

You raise some great points. I had no idea the damage would be so high. As I looked at my car, my best guess was $500. Not my forte, clearly.

I'm willing to try to find a way to show that she's lying. I'm going to hope the damage and statements will speak for themselves. It may not cost me that as we have lawyers in my family. (We may be poor -- but we're smart.) When I "mentioned" lawyer to both insurance companies -- they both tried to talk me out of it - like the question was "absurd."

I got better info here. I appreciate the piece about not putting this on my record. Good info. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Alty

I'm sure that at 62 years of age, your children can take care of themselves, so you shouldn't have to juggle too much in that respect. :)

I have an 18 yr old son in college here in town and a 12 yr old son at home; 2 more boys away from home and 2 grandsons. (I'm an adoptive mom.) Sister, I'm always juggling.

msonick · Sep 6, 2014, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Does your insurance co. have a subrogation (legal) department? The co. I used to work for (State Farm) did its best to gather all the facts, make diagrams, get recorded interviews, and always went to bat (and still does) for the insured if they believed he was not at fault. If it came down to a legal hassle, their team of lawyers continued the fight. (SF's insured didn't have to hire one.) Meanwhile, the insured's car was repaired with the hope that the other insurance company would eventually reimburse them.

I wondered if you had experience in the field or experience in a lot of accidents. Haha THIS info is well noted. When I did my research a few yrs. ago State Farm was at the top of the list. I thought Erie was supposed to be good too. When my adjuster talked to me she identified herself as blah blah from "legal." So it sounds like they have a legal department. But no one is making diagrams, etc.

ScottGem · Sep 6, 2014, 01:16 PM

OK, first, the state you live in may have no fault rules. So unless there is bodily damage, fault really won't matter. However, if you want her carrier to to pay in full, you file a claim with her carrier. If her carrier refuses to accept that claim, then you sue. But the only things you need to be concerned about is your deductible and your carrier raising your rates.

msonick · Sep 6, 2014, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

OK, first, the state you live in may have no fault rules. So unless there is bodily damage, fault really won't matter. However, if you want her carrier to to pay in full, you file a claim with her carrier. If her carrier refuses to accept that claim, then you sue. But the only things you need to be concerned about is your deductible and your carrier raising your rates.

Right. I'm in PA so we do have no fault. My concerns are:

my deductible ($500)
my record (no accidents)
an increase in my rates

These are all #HUGE Since she was at fault - yes, I want her to pay -- in full.

ScottGem · Sep 6, 2014, 03:37 PM

I would file a claim with her carrier. Tell them you were stopped behind her at a light and she backed up into you.

msonick · Sep 6, 2014, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

I would file a claim with her carrier. Tell them you were stopped behind her at a light and she backed up into you.

Thanks! I'll follow up.

Fr_Chuck · Sep 7, 2014, 01:03 AM

First, if there was 2000 dollars worth of damage, then most areas, a police report is required by law. I know it is, anywhere I have ever lived.

But, if it is your word, against hers, they will look at the damage.

Seldom does someone back in the street, and hit someone. So most likely they would believe her.

Or perhaps, divide damages.

msonick · Sep 7, 2014, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

First, if there was 2000 dollars worth of damage, then most areas, a police report is required by law. I know it is, anywhere I have ever lived.

But, if it is your word, against hers, they will look at the damage.

Seldom does someone back in the street, and hit someone. So most likely they would believe her.

Or perhaps, divide damages.

Right FR_Chuck. Sigh. On the one hand, her insurance company told me that she said "I turned from the alley and hit her." So she is not just saying I drove up and hit her which would have made a bit more sense if she was trying to make a good case for herself. For that reason, I'm hoping that the damage will tell the true story. I don't know.

My insurance adjuster called late yesterday. It was a bit strange because I heard a "new spin" on her story but it would lend a lot of credence to my statement. The adjuster said she was getting ready to "parallel park." That would explain why her car went into reverse. Well. This is a narrow 2 lane street with NO parking on the side that we were driving on. When I told my adjuster this, she immediately went on Google map and saw the street and realized that the other car could not be getting ready to parallel park.

I'm really confused because I never heard the "parallel parking story" before. Did she give two different statements? RED flag. I'm confused. I'll keep everyone posted. #Karma