[southern]

I have had a 14 week old Bichon Frise for 5 days. On the first night he slept in his crate after about a 1/2 hr of barking and slept through without pooping. I feed him Nutro and walk him after every meal and more-lots of toy chasing and running around. Every night after the first night he has awakened at 11pm barking. I do not go to him wanting not to reinforce night time barking only to find a poop the next morning--firm, not runny. I am not sure if he poops then barks or barks and finally poops. I cannot distinguish a need to poop bark from his regular bark. I have kept track of his pooping-- goes right after eating each meal and he does not overeat. Dried chicken treats given immediately when he poops outside and is praised. He does not pee when he poops at night. I don't know if his need to BM wakes him up or if he wakes up and stresses out enough to poop. Past two nights I have tried sitting next to the cage until he falls asleep which works but doesn't stop the waking. Bottom line is I think I am doing everything right but he is pooping 4 times a day even though he has 3 meals. Please help! I'm sick of washing his bedding --crate has divider to keep his area appropriate size-- and him.

[labman]

Make sure he moves around on his last trip out for the night. Movement stimulates the body to eliminate. Try moving his last meal of the day up earlier giving him more time to process it and empty his bowel.

At that age, puppies may be a little slower to adjust to a new home and new routine than a younger one.

[Dcbradys]

This is what worked for me. I placed a cardboard wall in the dogs kennel so the dog just had enough room to turn around. (dogs for the most part do not want to poop in their own bed). DO NOT PLACE FOOD OR WATER IN THEIR KENNEL! Just as you can live all day without water so can your dog. No more than an hour after each feeding/watering take the dog out to do his business. As the dog grows, move the cardboard wall to allow more room. After about a month or so you can remove the cardboard divider. Do not use the kennel to reprehend the dog. He should consider it his home where he feels safe.

[shawns_girl34]

I have had a 14 week old Bichon Frise for 5 days. On the first night he slept in his crate after about a 1/2 hr of barking and slept through without pooping. I feed him Nutro and walk him after every meal and more-lots of toy chasing and running around. Every night after the first night he has awakened at 11pm barking. I do not go to him wanting not to reinforce night time barking only to find a poop the next morning--firm, not runny. I am not sure if he poops then barks or barks and finally poops. I cannot distinguish a need to poop bark from his regular bark. I have kept track of his pooping-- goes right after eating each meal and he does not overeat. Dried chicken treats given immediately when he poops outside and is praised. He does not pee when he poops at night. I don't know if his need to BM wakes him up or if he wakes up and stresses out enough to poop. Past two nights I have tried sitting next to the cage until he falls asleep which works but doesn't stop the waking. Bottom line is I think I am doing everything right but he is pooping 4 times a day even though he has 3 meals. Please help! I'm sick of washing his bedding --crate has divider to keep his area appropriate size-- and him.

You already said that your pup had the appropriate crate space for his size so he wouldn't go in his bed... however... in addition to what Labman said, maybe while your little guy is still so young, that he doesn't have a lot of control... you should take him out one more time. Yes, you'll have to wake up or get up at around 10:45 to do it, but the little guy is barking for a reason! :) Hopefully, once he gets a little older, he will be able to tolerate an overnight in the crate without relieving his bowels - after all, he's still a baby!

[southern]

Make sure he moves around on his last trip out for the night. Movement stimulates the body to eliminate. Try moving his last meal of the day up earlier giving him more time to process it and empty his bowel.

At that age, puppies may be a little slower to adjust to a new home and new routine than a younger one.

Last night I fed him 1 hour earlier and made him do laps around the yard longer than usual--made a tiny poop. I sat with him by his crate until he fell asleep and tried covering it (it's the fully metal type not solid plastic edges) with a big dark towel for the cave effect. No barking or waking up at night and he pooped right after breakfast at 6 this a.m. A real relief not to have a poopy puppy and crate.

[labman]

Glad to hear of the progress. A Bichon may not be as bad as some breeds. I would count on a Lab pulling the towel in and shredding it if you covered its crate with one.

Staying by the crate until the puppy falls asleep is a simple thing. I happened on it one night when I was very desperate. My puppy had set the neighbors' dogs to barking. It has worked very well for for me with many puppies since, and I include it in the sticky at the top of the dog forum.

[Bostonlee]

I am having a similar problem but with a 16 wl old shih tzu. She has her last feeding at 4:30pm. At 11, I take her out and she piddles and poos. She wakes at 1 and I take her out and she pees, last night I decided to try to ignore the scratching on the crate and see if she'd settle, instead, she poo'd in the crate at 3am. I have no idea where all the poop is coming from after going at 11 and she does a big poop then!

L

[labman]

A 16 week old should make it through the night. You might try a vet check mentioning the problem. Other than that, I am not sure I have much more to add to what I already said. Make sure the crate isn't too big, and stick around until she settles for the night. They always seem to manage under stress. The one puppy I had was afraid of trains and always had a bowel movement when we encountered one. She didn't make it as a dog guide.

[tickle]

You have to take her out the same time every day. And feed her the same time every day, so her little system gets in tune with your schedule. I would suggest partitioning off her dog crate (dogs are basically clean animals). This will give her the idea that she still has a separate place to go and one to sleep. I have never had a dog mess in a dog crate or in my house because I am absolutely diligent when housebreaking a pet.

[Bostonlee]

We did have a vet check today as scheduled for her puppy shot. They had no words of wisdom.
She is in a tiny cat carrier for her crate, I've blocked all but enough room for her to lay down and stand and turn... no stretching out room.
I feed her at 6 am and at 4pm daily. Today I altered it... 6am and 2:30pm and we'll see how that goes. :rolleyes:
She is 4 lbs 10 oz and seriously, she gets no food past her last feeding. We have another dog, a bichon frise who is 5 and I never had this issue with crate training her... at 7wks, she did go in her crate but it didn't last beyond the first week.
There are no noises that would frighten her here and her crate is in my bedroom where she can see me or hear me talk to her when she wakes and gets restless. I read the book by the monks of new skeet when I trained 2 other dogs I've owned... Chloe isn't our first puppy... but I am at a loss with her! :confused:

During the day she is pretty much okay as long as I stay on top of running her out doors for bathroom breaks. If I don't, she will piddle on the floor... or worse, poop and then tries to eat it.:eek:.. gross... that is another kettle of fish I am dealing with and she just got on special powder to get her to stop the nasty habit.

[labman]

This is a tough issue and one I have no training on and little experience. The best answers come from people that have numerous, successful experience with the problem. I know how to keep puppies from crying the first night in the new home. Some dogs just seem to do it although their owners are doing about the same as those that don't have the problem. Do a search on it here, you will find lots of questions, but few reports that something worked. Much of what you read is emphatic about dogs not fouling where they sleep. Dogs sometimes don't seem to have read those books. Why they are doing it? Resentment at being crated, stress, poor previous conditions? The puppies I get have extraordinary care. I have visited at least one home where the birthing box is in the living room.

There are ways of coping with it. A rack or a grid is highly effective at keeping a puppy out off urine, or in this case, a vegetable bin with holes in it.



I have suggested trying wood chips in the crate, but nobody ever posted back that they tried it, and if it worked.

Stronger leadership should help if stress or resentment is the problem. Dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog. Life is much easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones. You can learn to play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands with a treat. Start at Raising Your Dog with the Monks of New Skete Here are more gentle ways of letting a little puppy know you are top dog:

''Elevation for small puppies: Sit on the floor and gently put your hands around your pup's middle, below his front legs, and lift him up. He is facing you. Hold him for 15 seconds. Repeat until he no longer struggles. If he is past 10-12 weeks, lift his front feet off the ground, but don't pick him up.

Cradling for small puppies: Hold your puppy gently on his back, as you would cradle a small baby. If he struggles, hold him firmly until he quiets for 10-15 seconds. With larger pups, you can do this as your sit on the floor, with your pup between your legs.

Quiet lying down: Place your pup on the floor on his side, with all 4 legs pointing away from you. Use your hands on his neck/shoulder area and middle, to hold him in this position. When he is quiet, praise him. Lengthen the time that you keep him quietly in this position. When he accepts this position well, handle his paws and muzzle, while keeping him quiet.''

The quotes mean this isn't my original work. It is copied from my Puppy Raising Manual. I have long used these or minor variations of them, and they are very effective. You may want to give him a belly rub while he is on his back too. Helps bonding. There is a big difference between him rolling over and demanding a belly rub, and you choosing a time to roll him over and rub his belly. The latter cements your place as pack leader.

Your puppy is much too young for a class, but not too young to start obedience. I start my 7 week olds on my way out of the kennel the day I pick them up. At that age, you must keep sessions short, only a couple of repetitions at a time. They learn very quickly then. Don't make the mistake of not obedience training a small dog. One of you will be in charge the next 15-20 years.

[Bostonlee]

Thank you... I realized I own Rescue Rememdy and didn't realize that was what people were talking about (Bach's floral essence) so last night, I gave Chlose some drops and then more 20 minutes later. I'd taken her out at 11 and she'd done her business as usual.
We did have a dinner to go to and when we got back, she'd poo'd on the pad and ate it (yuck) and so I thought she'd be up recycling that poo again.
Nope... she whined a little bit around 11:30 and then she slept through the night... I think its been anxiety due to how the rescue remedy seemed to be the answer!

[tickle]

I am not familiar with rescue remedy, and even more unfamiliar with puppies eating their own fecal matter. That doesn't sound good. Unless she was trying to hide it the best way she can. Do you reprimand her when she does this, because if you do, not a good idea. You should only put her back outdoors as a reprimand.

[Bostonlee]

Tickle,
Nope, I don't yell at her, just clean it up... or what was left of what she didn't eat. When in crate, it is just all over her as she steps in it etc. So I just bathe her, wash the crate.
Good to say, she the powder from the vet seems to be helping in that area. She had 1 poop accident in the house (in my office on the wood floor... don't know why she loves that room to potty in!) and 1 pee by the back slider and 1 on the pee pad while she was tethered to the table leg when I was busy. The rest of the day she has gone outdoors and I praise her highly and rub her while saying 'good girl chloe!'

Resuce Remedy is put out by Bachs floral essence... someone mentioned it here and on a vet page it was mentioned. I'm glad I tried it as it does help us... :)

Lisa