[Sadie Jaye]

HELP! I have an 8 week old Rat Terrier who poops everyday in her crate while we're at work... by the time we get home, she has played in it so badly that we have to give her a bath and wash all her toys and towels from the day.

How will she ever learn NOT to do this? Everyone tells me that once they do it, and it doesn't bother them, they will never stop. True??
The crate we have is the smallest we could find.
She does fine when we have her out of the crate... very few accidents.
Could this be an age thing, and she's just too young to hold it for 8 hours?

Thanks!

[jenni9]

I don't know much about this one, but I have heard that once they do it, it doesn't bother them. The only exception I've seen is my friends' 1 year old lab who apparently had a stomach virus and had an accident, but it was only that one time and she was already crate trained.

I'm no expert by any means, but I have heard and read that the crate should be only big enough for them to stand up in and turn around comfortably in. If your crate is bigger than this maybe you can possibly go online and find a "special" crate? This is how big my crates were with both of my dogs and they never pooped.

I'd love to see others' responses, as I have a friend getting an 8 week old puppy next week and I'm sure she could use the advice if it happens to her!

[Tuscany]

She is too young to hold it that long. A good general rule of thumb the number of months old a puppy is is the number of hours they can comfortably stay in their crate. I have a 5 1/2 month old puppy and I go home everyday at lunch to let him out.

[Sadie Jaye]

Well that's the thing, Jenni... right now, a shoebox is big enough for her to stay in all day. She only weighs 3lbs. We just bought a crate with a divider last night, but even the pet store guy told me that once she poops in her sleeping area and doesn't care, it will never stop.
We'll know today if the crate/divider worked or not... I'm not confident at all. If this doesn't stop, I don't know if I will be able to keep her. I can't commit to an hour of cleaning and bathing every night after work! My other dog never did this, so its all new to me.

Tuscany, I have heard of that rule... but we work all day. Letting her out after 2 hours is not an option. Like I said, my other dog never did this. I was hoping this one wouldn't either.

[Tuscany]

Can you come home at lunch or at least one time during the day?
Labman might have other suggestions

[Sadie Jaye]

No, we can't get home at lunch... plus, my thing is that I want her to LEARN that its uncomfortable for her if she poops in there. How will she learn that?? Everyone told me that dogs don't poop where they sleep, so I thought I was safe.

[Tuscany]

My puppy learned by being put on a schedule and then being brought out to the same spot, asked to go potty the same way, every time. Now he rings a bell to go out, and is quite good with not going in the house and has never gone in the crate.

I would think that having the puppy be uncomfortable is not the best way to go right now. Besides the crate should be a safe place for the puppy. If you are at work for 8 hours I am pretty sure that the puppy is not sleeping that whole time.

But like I said... labman can probably give more spot on advice on this one.

[Sadie Jaye]

Well that's the thing, too... many people said that right now, its more important for her to be comfortable than for her to learn its wrong to poop in there. So, we took her out of the standard crate and put her in a 4 sided ex-pen, giving her MUCH more room. Well, despite having more room (assumming she would poop in one spot, and sleep in another) the issue did not change. It was even worse because she had more room to spread it around. So now we're back to a crate.

She does really well when we're home with her... pees every 60 minutes when we take her out and is able to poop outside 90% of the time, but usually we catch her in the act, scold her, then take her outside to finish. Its just the crate that she's struggling with.

[Tuscany]

A suggestion from Labman in a previous post for this problem:

You can defeat it with a rack in the crate. They sell them with the crates, or you can use a piece of closely spaced closet shelving. Not quite as effective as with urine, but the stools will fall through leaving a cleaner dog. I always start my puppies on a rack. You could also try the wood shavings used with gerbils. Let me know if that works.

[Sadie Jaye]

Thanks, Tuscany... but will she still learn that its wrong to poop in there?? I don't want to just put a band-aid on the problem. She need to be able to be in a normal crate, and hold it all day until we get home.

LABMAN?? Lol Rescue me! :)

[labman]

I think it is hopeless to expect an 8 week old to go 8 hours. This is why puppies from the pet store are often hard to housebreak. They have been forced to stay in a small cage in their own filth until they have lost their instinct for cleanliness. Otherwise they will keep their area clean if they can. I have had good luck leaving young puppies 4-5 hours with only a few accidents. He really needs a mid day break including a meal. If you can't manage it, try to find a neighbor or a professional dog walker.

You could try a grid or a rack. My latest thinking on it is in the housebreaking sticky at the top of the dog forum.



I try to warn people not to get a young puppy if they have to leave it all day. I hate to see even older dogs left all day by themselves. A doggy day care is a good idea for for older dogs, but too much chance of exposure to a fatal disease to leave a younger one.

[b_beagle]

This is long, but it might help, especially if you work long hours and can't come home during lunch like me.

Our 9 week old puppy poopped in his crate once when we left him in there for about 4 hours while we were at work. So we came up with the solution of building him a pen about 2.5ft by 4ft in a corner of our living. We bought these wire (coated in plastic) cube shelves from Target for about $15 in the home improvement section I believe. They come in a set of 22-24 wire panels that you have to assemble to make 6 cube shelves, instead we converted it into a small pen and re-enforced the connectors with zip-ties. We placed the crate inside the pen, secured it to the pen with another zip tie, covered the top of the pen with several more wire panels (right above where you place the crate to prevent the puppy from hopping onto the crate and out the pen). This worked for about 3 days until he figured out how to grab hold of the panel openings to climb to the roof. So we then tape cardboard around the edges of the "roof" to prevent him from grabbing hold, pulling up and getting out. This has worked for about a week now. We place the crate inside the pen with the door open and line the bottom of the pen with a big piece of cardboard then covered in newspaper (or poop pads) while we're at work. Whenever we come home, we'll find his urine and poop spots in a corner away from in water and crate in the pen. There were a couple of occasions where we noticed that he had stepped in his poop, but that was from trying to escape. For us the pen works really well, for now while we don't want to let him loose in the house. If he has been bad, we place him in the pen to let him know he has done something wrong. Also, if its time for bed and we don't want to lock him in over night, we also put him in the pen. He'll eventually tire from wimpering and walk into his crate. Also as he gets to be a bigger puppy but ot ready to roam the house, we're planning to buy another set of these to expand (horizontally and vertically). Technically this is sort of his wire house and the crate his room.

[heathervettechCa]

First question to you: How long are you leaving her alone? 8 hours is WAY TOO LONG for any puppy, ;east of all a rat terrier. Puppies do not have the ability to hold it all day long, its not fair for them to be expected to and it isn't healthy either. At first, you have to take them outside every 2 hours. Praise them when they go potty outside and make a big deal about it so they know what they did was right and it pleased you. However you do have a terrier, and they do tend tobe a bit more stubborn than most breads to train. When I first got my lab, I took my 2 week vacation from work and used it to train her. And what at first seemed like it was impossible, turned into a mutual bond and not only did she ever go in the house again, she never chewed things up again and she became the most amazing dog I ever had. Anouther reason for dogs to go potty in their "house" is separation anxiety. Yes you heardme right, they do it to get back at you for leaving them. You need to be sure to train your puppy to play on its own and pick a favorite toy that you keep with you at all times when you play with her. It will become a security blanket while you are gone.
In regards to the rack in the bottom of the crate, I worry. I have seen injuries caused by feet and toes being caught in them. And if you are not there to help her if a limb get caught, it can spell disaster.
Last but not least, try speaking to a behaviorlist. They can help you! I consulted one and I never regreted it!
Good luck. Let me know what happens.
Heather

[labman]

snip...
In regards to the rack in the bottom of the crate, I worry. I have seen injuries caused by feet and toes being caught in them. And if you are not there to help her if a limb get caught, it can spell disaster. snip...

This concerns me. Just because I have done it for years without a problem, doesn't mean it is a safe, good practice. Could be even worse if somebody uses a wider spaced rack. I must mull it over some.

After all, I go to the pet store and see all kinds of chew toys I would risk letting my puppy have.

[SchnauzPup]

HELP!! I have an 8 wk old Rat Terrier who poops everyday in her crate while we're at work... by the time we get home, she has played in it so badly that we have to give her a bath and wash all her toys and towels from the day.

How will she ever learn NOT to do this? Everyone tells me that once they do it, and it doesn't bother them, they will never stop. True???
The crate we have is the smallest we could find.
She does fine when we have her out of the crate.... very few accidents.
Could this be an age thing, and she's just too young to hold it for 8 hours??

Thanks!!

We have had a schnauzer for about 4 months and she's housetrained but got in a habit of pooping in the crate almost every time we were away. I read Labman's response to this about separation anxiety and talked to a few other people...

We now have taken her crate out of view of the front door so she can't actually watch us leave (if you're puppy knows the schedule now of you leaving every morning, this may not help as much). We also leave a radio/TV on for her to hear the noise and forget that she's alone. We haven't had an accident since the day we started it (that's been almost a week).

Hope this helps... I know it's a PAIN to clean the dog, the toys, and the crate every time you get home. Good luck!