[kryostar]

First,we are both 45 years old, A little background, her family life while growing up, she is second oldest to four sisters. She played the mom role in her house due to her mom being an alcoholic. Her dad wanted a boy "but got five daughters instead" and didn't seem to be available for them. She was married soon after high school and became pregnant. Had a son, husband cheated on her while pregnant. They annulled their marriage and raised boy on her own till he was 17, without much help from ex. Wow! And this isn't all, her sisters are jealous and have done many things to hurt her, i.e. used her,stole bank cards,non responsive on holidays, and just generally not there for her. Neither of her parents make an effort to be in her life or any of the girls,moms in alcoholic. Mental. hosp. out of state, dads remarried out of state. I know she has good reasons not to open up or get too close, but I've been patient, and it seems she's closing off more and more over time. I know counseling but I don't think I can get her to go. She just avoids addressing the issue. Maybe some insight on how to help her open up to me and feel relaxed that I won't cheat or abandoned her. OK I'll add some spices to the mix, SEX she seemed to have a pretty good sex drive and seemed to enjoy, we played games, and role, just "hi doctor it hurts right here, can you kiss it and make it better" nothing kinky. But now its only about two times a month and its just stick it in hurry and . In bed she doesn't want me to touch her, when were sleeping, no cuddling which we used to. HELP I understand how its easier to close off rather than open up, thank you, just hoping for some new techniques, insight, and understanding of how I can help her out to be more relaxed and trusting to open up emotionally.

[Enigma1999]

Hello Kryostar,

My heart goes out to this woman! Just reading the first half of your story, I can see how she has trust issues.

How long have you two been together?

The fact that at the beginning of your relationship, you two were more active in the bedroom, and now it has become a lot less.

Have you tried to talk to her about why she has become more closed off during your love making sessions?

Other than the bedroom, what else has she become more closed off about?

[kryostar]

Thank you for the reply Enigma1999. She has up a wall and won't open up. We have been together for nine years. Also we have known each other since third grade, although we never dated or hung out. Then we met up again nine years ago and have been together ever since. Well I have to go to work,after hours service call.

[martinizing2]

Hi doctor, it hurts right here... kiss it and make it better...
Is semi-kinky.

Sorry about that...

I would try to think of some way to get a professional involved here.
I think that would be extremely beneficial.
Kind words, gentle suggestions and hints. Wine , flowers, more wine. But try to be creative.

And communicate as much as possible.
Communication is the foundation of good love, business, friendship and avoiding conflict. Do it often.

I wish you well... communicate

[Enigma1999]

Yes, absolutley, communication is the key. Counseling may also help as well. I have to ask though, what do YOU think has changed from nine years ago until now?

[Synnen]

Everything is kinky to someone. Seriously. What I find to be icky, someone else is turned on by it.

Trust issues is a hard thing--and really, only counseling and a lot of communication is going to help.

Would she be open to joint counseling? Not necessarily for her wall, but so that you two communicate on the same level.

[kryostar]

Hi Enigma1999 What has changed over the last nine years, well I guess what you would call the honeymoon stage is over. At first I made a lot of extra effort to help her feel comfortable we spent a lot of time together, I became complacent and stopped putting forth so much effort and her independent tendencies emerged once more, It's funny how much you learn about yourself while trying to understand someone else. TY everyone

[kryostar]

Thank you to all who took their time to read my post and offer their advise :)

[kp2171]

Well... first of all, I'm confused about the question.

It seems to start with a focus on her but then quickly changes to your wants and needs.

There's nothing wrong with your wants and needs, I just don't like the bait and switch.

You are frustrated for you. And some for her. But mostly for you. You want her to be more engaged and responsive and in the moment. There is Absolutely Nothing Wrong with that.

...

So...

You know how she is and you know it isn't OK with you.

Pick your battles.

I'm mostly on your side... I think if she chooses to sleep with you, then she chooses to at least try to meet your needs... at least some of the time.

Lord knows I never wanted to be awake at 4am under most reasonable circumstances... but this is when my last lover was most receptive... so I rewired myself over time... to seek her out when she was most responsive.

Did it work? Yes and no.

My main opinion is that your lover should chase you as hard as you need chased. It is a basic, fundamental constant of mental health. We like to be liked. We want to be wanted. We like to be liked and chased.

So... I just think you are too far in or she is too far out for this to mesh easily.

That said.. step up and demand what you want and need.

If she doesn't deliver... then you know... and I am all about knowing the Truth. Put your lover to the wall and see how hard she chases you...

[kryostar]

Your right kp2171 I am most miserable when thinking of myself. My original intentions were to gain some insight,understanding,and some new techniques to try.

[kp2171]

Well... you can't make her do anything she doesn't want to do.

That said, you can most certainly demand that your needs are met. And I mean it exactly as written.

You own your wants and needs. You own the process of expressing this to your lover. You own the reaction to whatever her reaction is.

I don't like pretense. I like in my face. I like a lover pushing me to the wall to demand what she needs... or my telling a lover "i need this" and meaning it.

Just don't have time for mind games.

So... you decise what you will put up with... its your call... but when in doubt, I like to swing hard for the wall...

You want a lover who is willing to chase you as hard as you are willing to chase her, right?

So stick to it.

[kp2171]

just want to add this in, after again reading my previous posts.

I'm in no way saying that love isn't worth the hard work it takes to make it last... even when it doesn't last, I believe there is some value is saying "i did my part"... while I have had to walk away from three Really Big Loves in my life, I didn't do it on a whim. In one case, I stayed far longer than most likely would, and longer than I shouldve. I'm willing to pick myself up off the mat and get a little bloodied. Maybe it's the stubborn irish in me. Don't know.

but I do think there is great value in saying what you feel and want and need... really saying it out loud and letting it be heard... whether it goes anywhere or not. She has "good reasons" to be where she is, perhaps. She also has a good reason to work herself out of it (with pro help if needed)... and the good reason is you, right?

you are the good reason for her to try to find a better way?

look... I've been in as deep and dark a place a person can be and still walk this earth. Went through two different hits of depression, one that was Evil Mean. I've felt the grace of God at times in my life, but I know damn well I've had a hard line to the devil.

I get how easy it is to get in our own way. She has real, honest issues. You might, also. Welcome to humanity. =)

so... I don't believe you should just callously "put her to the wall"... I do think you owe it to yourself to express you needs clearly and without question. There are many ways to do this.

one I've mentioned before is sharing a book. Gary chapman's five love languages is a fav of mine. Tells how people show commitment through five modes of expression or action. Physical touch, words of affirmation, gifts, acts of service, and quality time.

the best case scenario... its like a table with legs... the more legs, the more stable it is, especially when one "drops off" for a time. That said, we all tend to act in certain "dialects" more than others and we also respond to some more than others.

for ex... I tend to act strongest through acts of service, physical touch, and words of affirmation. I look for love strongest through physical touch and words of affirmation.

when I read, and shared, this book with a love when we were struggling... well, we found she wanted mostly quality time... all that time I was puttering and getting things done, she felt neglected.

it surely didn't solve all of our problems... many were too far gone and too deep rooted to fix. We just were not right for each other as lovers... but it was really helpful to understand that two people can both feel like they aren't being heard when they are really just speaking different "dialects"...

so... guess my point was reading and sharing a book like this can be one way to get a lover to think about the issues at hand. I've done the same with a select few books concerning sex and sensuality and I can tell you I pay great attention to those areas a lover marks or dog-ears as interesting. Maybe its me... but I find sharing books like this somehow takes out the "finger pointing"... its less "you never do this" and more "i relate to this idea"...

super long post. Yep. I'm still me. King of the run on posting.

[Allie602]

Kryostar I'd like to suggest a book that I found helpful in my relationships His needs, Her needs by Willard Harley. I gained a lot of insight although I still have hot button issues that remind me of the past. I wonder if something has happened to make your wife feel like she is back in her original family.

I had a really difficult childhood like your wife. I found it difficult to trust that people would not let me down if I depended on them. I had no childhood I took care of my younger brothers and myself. So I had to learn to trust I don't know if your wife had any sexual abuse issues but that will effect her relationship with you.
You seem to know her very well and you may have insight into what is going on. Many problems that people have when they have a troubled past has more to do with their past and some event that seems like an old problem.
If you wife will read the book with you that would be good. At any rate, try backing off and see what happens she may need space to think and then communicate. If she does not respond by coming to you then you will have to initiate the talk. Do so when you are calm and able to hear what she says. Sounds like you are blaming yourself but it takes two of you to keep the relationship on track.
With some work you may be able to find out what's up. If you are hovering over her try to change it up so she notices the difference. That may give her a chance to come to you. Be patient and let things unfold don't act anxious and don't blame yourself but the best thing to do is to force yourself to calm down.

[lickemlolly]

Sounds like there is more then just trust issues here.. sounds like she may be pulling away from you a little bit.. and the whole no cuddling and whatnot almost sounds like she is irritated with being around you... have you talked to her.. like sat down and had a real conversation with her about this?without pointing fingers and just telling her look I feel as though xyz... you know? And counseling might not be a bad idea if she's open to it.. theres underlying problems that may be affecting your relationship... but then again maybe there is something you aren't seeing that is making her act out this way...

[kryostar]

His needs Her needs... thank you Allie602... Gary Chaman's Five love languages... kp2171 I've only found this site a little over a week ago,completely by accident,I was posting a plumbing kinundrum (is that even a word?) any way it was a stuck power snake, 60 feet of 5/8 spring steel (by the way it's still stuck in sewer line) So a new site, lets explore, hey I can answer that and that and that one too. Expert... as we speak I'm having shirts with my name above that word. After all it doesn't take 6,8,12 years of college to hammer a nail,turn a screw... so let explore some more,there sure is a lot of categories,hmmm typical guy curiosity (ADULT SEXUALITY) I read some threads,a few screen names were predominant.and genuinely helping the people,if the people could comprehend what's beyond their blinders that they refuse to take off,why even ask the question,when the only answer they want to here is one that affirms what the believe to be true anyway... rambling... I've never been one to ask relationship,or personal emotional questions. Especially problem ones.that's the stuff your supposed to keep in, right?. wrong! I still would never seek from friends or family. My answer to them will always be (all right,going good,everything's OK)deep rooted... Well to sum this up I relate to your perspective take on my original post, I had felt hopeless when it came to my relationship problems,I'm a problem solver by nature,my last resort was to do to her what she was doing,or is doing to me,but that didn't seem "2 wong's don't make a white"so thanks again I'll let you know how it goes,I'm swinging for the fence,with a velvet bat... be... QUIXOTIC...

[Allie602]

Repeat post erased

[Allie602]

Kryostar just thought of another book, it was one of the first that I read when I decided I needed to fix myself. "For Couples Only: Eyeopening Insights about How the Opposite Sex Thinks" by Shaunti  .
Due to abuse by an older man when I was 15 I thought all men were like him. Yet every man I met after that experience repected me and considered me marriage material, they did not push for sex they introduced me to family and friends they were in my profession well educated with a strong work ethic and family values. My friends say that I am lucky, I agree..
You would think that with the overwhelmingly positive experience with men that I have had in adulthood, I'd forget it as an isolated bit of bad luck. But that has not happened, rationally I know all men are not evil but emotionally that early first experience left a deep scar. Your wife may be affected by her past experience even though you have been wonderful to her. But don't dispare,on a very deep level, I think she knows you deserve to have her love. I can tell you that I know how fortunate I am but sometimes I'm on auto pilot if an event puts me back in my family or in the abuse and I get very angry. Also feel that I am not worth anything too.
I am certain that your wife feels the same way, growing up with no parental love makes one unworthy of love.

I have been very successful in my life but I cannot shake the feeling. So you see how present circumstances cannot fully erase the past. I am in therapy and getting better,my therapist told me to think of my feeling as a file and put away the bad ones from the past and close the file they will always be there but tucked away. I really hope that that telling you what happen to me will help you to deal with your wife and work. Ultimately she has to feel uncomfortable enough to change.
You maybe able to let her feel the consequeces of her ways by your reacting appropriately. Your sympathy while admirable will not help her or you, she needs tuff love. (please forgive the typos I am literate but my iPhone has a limited spell check and I am spelling challenged thank goodness God invented MS word)