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KCDave · Nov 27, 2006, 09:47 PM

Hello,

Im starting to finish my basement and have a few questions on the stubbed in plumbing.
It is stubbed for a full bath and drains into an ejector pump. I marked on the photos below what I thought each pipe is for, but there is one unknown 2" pipe next to the toilet. Also, on the other side of the room is another drain for a bar, but no vent pipe.

My questions are; what is the unknown pipe next to the toilet for? How do I vent the toilet and shower (wet vent?) What's the best way to vent the bar sink? Thanks for any input.

dmrlook · Nov 28, 2006, 06:42 PM

I'm no expert, but I would think the line behind the toilet is to vent it. I would guess the toilet is 4 inch and the vent behind it 2 inch. Is this corrct? I would also think the shower is wet vented through the line you have marked as sink. I believe this is OK because of the small amount of water that goes through the sink drain. As for venting your bar, if there is no vent above it, then I would go through the celing to the vent on the other isde above the bathroom if the length is not too long. Just make sure you properly angle the vent (.25 inch drop per foot travel from vent to bar sink). However I would check with someone who knows more than me what an acceptable length is (if there is such a code).

From your pic, what you have marked as vent looks very small. It is at least 1.5 inch pipe (or maybe 1.25 - I forget which is standard for showers and sinks)?

Hope this helps,
Rob

KCDave · Nov 29, 2006, 06:58 AM

The line beside the toilet is 2" and the toilet itself is either 3 or 4 inch.
The line marked "vent" I believe is 1 1/4". It is marked "future vent". I noticed last night the pipe I have marked as "sink" has a "v" marked on the top. I was hoping this was for a sink.

It almost seems like the line I have marked as "sink" is really a vent for the shower and the line I have marked "??" is intended for a sink with the toilet wet venting through it. But, that means there will be (2) 2" vent lines and only one 1 1/4" vent going to the roof?

I was wondering if an AAV could be used for the bar. It's not a straight run to the vent line marked above the bathroom and it's about 50 linear feet away.

dmrlook · Nov 29, 2006, 10:47 AM

Hey - First, I don't know what an AAV is, so I can't give you any advice on that. I must defer to an expert there. As for the line begind the toilet, that could probably be used for a sink as well. In fact, I believe that both the line marked? And the one marked sink could be used for a sink. In either case, both lines need to be connected to the 1 1/4 vent line you have marked.

Is the line coming out of the sump pump on the right a vent line? If so, you could connect to that from the line behind the toilet to vent that line. Just make sure it vents to the roof and not at or about ground level. You don't want sewer gasses wafting into your open windows.

Hope this helps, and keep in mind I am no expert, so you may want to check my advice with someone more qualified.

Rob

KCDave · Nov 29, 2006, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by dmrlook

Is the line coming out of the sump pump on the right a vent line?

Yes, I actually have the ejector pump lines marked backwards, but as you can see from the picture the vent line doesn't go to the roof, they both tie directly into the main sewer line.

dmrlook · Nov 29, 2006, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by KCDave

Yes, I actually have the ejector pump lines marked backwards, but as you can see from the picture the vent line doesn't go to the roof, they both tie directly into the main sewer line.

Which will eventually connect to the vent on the roof, so I think you should be OK using that line to vent the toilet/sink on that side of the room.

speedball1 · Nov 30, 2006, 11:11 AM

Hey Guys,

I've printed out the pictures and the posts and followed all of the posts with much interest. I haven't weighed in because you were asking good questions and Rob was giving you good answers. But really, all you guys are doing is guessing about what's under the cement. Why not contact the plumber or company that put it there. If they are like other companys I have worked for they keep a set of "as built" plans of old jobs for just this reason.
As for the 2" pipe behind the toilet it looks like it is coming out of the closet bend. Chapter 14, (Vent & Venting) Section 1406.4 titled, Side and heel inlets of The Standard Plumbing Code states, "Side and heel inlet closet bends are permitted only in cases where the fixture connecting thereto is vented and in no case shall be used as a bathroom vent without first being washed by a fixture".
So that means it's a raiser to be armed out for a lavatory drain and to continue on up for a vent.
You say, "As you can see from the picture the vent line doesn't go to the roof, they both tie directly into the main sewer line." That's two violations right there. Go back and read the ejector pit posts that have been answers. They all deal with wanting to tie the pit vent into the house venting system. The pit vent MUST be a dedicated and separate vent out the roof. Also you CAN NOT revent back to a sewer line.
Although the piping has a professional look, with the exception of all the twists and turns, in my opinion, it lacks a lot in the design layout. Regards, Tom

dmrlook · Nov 30, 2006, 11:38 AM

Thanks for weighing in in Tom. Things were definitely getting above my level of knowledge. Nice to have someone who knows what they are doing help out. The knowledge on this site is amazing. I actually read the posts just for fun!

Thanks,
Rob

KCDave · Dec 1, 2006, 06:11 PM

Well, I had the plumber come out that did the initial installation today and he said I can put the sink in either place (by the toilet or where I have the sink marked in the photo). They would both tie back into the (smaller) vent line coming from above.

From what I have read this would be known as auxiliary venting and is required when the distance between the main vent and fixture is greater than that required by code. So, could I put the sink where its marked in the photo, vent it straight up to the 1 1/2" vent line and then take the line marked ?? and tee it back into the 1 1/2" vent line? Tom, you quoted something from the code about side and heel closet bends that I think was related to this, but that went over my head.

I also questioned the ejector pump venting saying something like "wouldn't it need to bring air in as well as vent it out". Anyway he said it was fine and that we could also tie the vent line near the toilet into the vent line from the ejector pump. (remember this is the guy who did he install) So far everyone else is telling me that its piped wrong and in violation of code. (fantastic!) My question here is does the ejector pump have to be vented to the roof or can it go out the side? Ya, I' know, but I thought I'd ask.

As far as the bar sink he said he would just use an AAV.

I have another guy coming Monday so it will be interesting to see what he has to say. I also called the city inspector and he is sending some information as well. I live in a small town so maybe I can drag him out and get approval before the work is done.

Thanks for everyone's input, this sure seems like a lot of work just for a basement bath, but the last thing I want is future plumbing problems.

Dave

speedball1 · Dec 2, 2006, 07:58 AM

"So far everyone else is telling me that its piped wrong and in violation of code. (fantastic!) My question here is does the ejector pump have to be vented to the roof or can it go out the side? Ya, I' know, but I thought I'd ask. "

It IS vented wrong and IS in violation of the code and manufactures directions. You may take the ejector pit vent out the side of the house but you will have to follow, section 1404.5, (Vent Extensions Through Wall) of The Standard Plumbing Code which states, in part, that you may not terminate under a door, window or ventilation opening. Or within 10 feet of any such opening unless it's 2 feet above the top of such a opening.

I had the plumber come out that did the initial installation today and he said I can put the sink in either place (by the toilet or where I have the sink marked in the photo). They would both tie back into the (smaller) vent line coming from above."
Which puts us right back to, "As for the 2" pipe behind the toilet it looks like it is coming out of the closet bend. Chapter 14, (Vent & Venting) Section 1406.4 titled, Side and heel inlets of The Standard Plumbing Code states, "Side and heel inlet closet bends are permitted only in cases where the fixture connecting thereto is vented and in no case shall be used as a bathroom vent without first being washed by a fixture"." Your plumber would
Connect back to the vent system with out first washing the line with a fixture. And if this is the same plumber that did the job it boggles the mind why you are taking his word about anything. Call in a sharp plumber and voice your concerns to him. Good luck, Tom