[JHY]

My ex-wife is an alcoholic with a diagnosable personality disorder. She followed the path that her mother took and subtly drove a wedge between my daughter and I from the moment that my daughter could talk until emotionally I was shut out. Just as happened with her father. I felt that I was never allowed to bond with my daughter and as she grew my parental position was constantly undermined. Any attempt to impose even the mildest form of boundary was undermined and met with over-indulgence from my wife. Also my wife had a perverse nature that required anything good to be spoiled and eventually destroyed. By the time my daughter was 11 years old she and I had become strangers under the same roof. The situation became intolerable and when my wife realised that our family was likely to break up she then instigated emotional blackmail that instead of resolving the situation, actually made it worse.
After the split (2003) I tried to share my daughter but was thwarted at every turn. After 3 years of being treated like a leper I left the UK and now reside in Europe. I have not seen my daughter for over 4 years. I have constantly sent messages of love and encouragement with at best no response, at worse to have my advances rebuked.
I have no help from my family as my childless sister pays lip-service to me ex-wife to ensure access to the 'child she never had' and her misplaced surrogate motherhood has had devastating consequences.
So to sum up.
1, A daughter who I understand is difficult to control and experimenting perhaps too much with alcohol. She has a history of self harming, prescription drug overdoses, and treatment for depression (She is now 17 yrs). I fear that a problem with alcohol is looming.
2,An alcoholic supine mother with no control over my daughter. I know she has poisoned my daughter against me but is in total denial and convinced friends and family that the difficulties between my daughter and I are nothing to do with her.
3, A sister who even my parents (My Mother has since died) as long as 15 years ago described as behaving in a peculiar manner due to never having had children. (She knew 18 months before I did that my daughter was self harming but entered a pact of silence with my ex-wife to ensure that my wife didn't cut of access).
4, Me. I'm now 61 years and in torment with this hurt that never goes away. I liken it to an endless bereavement.
I feel that I've done everything I can to resolve or at least improve the situation and have run dry of hope and ideas. What do I do now or where can I go to for help?

[redhed35]

Have you considered going to visit your daughter?

You are still her father,whether her mother or she likes it or not.

It will be hard...

But... she is 17,and as she gets older she will see that you kept contact and was a stable person in her life.

Don't let history repeat itself again,it looks like it going to be up to you to break the cycle.

[JHY]

I have tried on a few occasions, the last being on her Birthday. (May 2009)I texted her that I would be flying into the UK and would be in a coffee lounge 5 minutes from her home.
On previous occasions she has replied by text with an excuse but this time I had no message. We had an email exchange shortly afterwards which I think was the only time that I showed anger at her behaviour as she gave a limp and transparent excuse. Up until then, and during the difficult times with my wife I was careful not to involve my daughter. And had done my best to remain consistent in my messages to her. This time I felt that not only had no respect for me whatsover, but that I was losing myself respect. Rightly or wrongly I had always ensured that she had enough money, had paid for a private education (20% of which her mother allowed her to be absent from) and had actually bought her a car. Not as a birthday present, but 1, because that's what Dad's do for their daughters if they are fortunate enough to be able to afford to. 2, To prevent my sister from pre-empting me (not for the first time and using my elderly father's money to do it).

[twinkiedooter]

JHY first you need to stop beating yourself up over this child. You've tried numerous times to reach out to her and she's just not interested in reciprocating this love and attention. Buying her a car was a nice gesture but it obviously was not appreciated period. Would suggest that you just forget her and move on with your life. There is just so much you can do to grovel after this child and then it gets to be pathetic. You have more self esteem than that I'm sure.

If she is almost like her mother, she may have possibly inherited her mental problems and just continue her downward spiral into the dark recesses of her mind.

I am glad your sister at least keeps you from squandering more money on this child.

If your child really does want you and love you she will come to you when she's ready. It may take years for this to happen. Just sit tight and wait for her to come to you. Otherwise, the more you chase her around or give lavish gifts to, you are basically pushing her away with both hands. She's just 17 and very impressionable. The mother is definitely to blame for this. You can't undue how many years of estrangement. Sorry, it's not going to happen.

[Gemini54]

JHY, as hard as this must be to hear, I reciprocate twinkiedooter's advice. My husband is in a really similar situation to yours (except his mother plays the part of your sister).

Firstly, can I recommend you go to this webisite? It will provide you with some opinions about the issues you're dealing with. What your ex-wife has done is called - parental alienation syndrome... and you are its victim.

Shrink4men.wordpress.com

Secondly, and this is really hard, you must try to begin to accept that you can't do anything for your daughter. She has been thoroughly brainwashed by her mother and is beyond your reach. Expensive presents will just reinforce her sense of entitlement and increase her disdain for you.

I understand that you care about her, but you also must try to accept that she has chosen her path in life. She's 17 now and although you might not agree with what she thinks, or how she chooses to behave or live her life you must let go of trying to control it.

You can't make her acknowledge or love you. It's impossible. I do understand, because my husband lives with the pain and hurt of his estrangement on a daily basis. In the end he has had to accept the situation and get on with his life, finding joy in other places.

People say that it takes time and that children do eventually recognize their parents' involvement. This may sometimes be the case, but parents in your situation often find that their children contact them when they need something like money. Beware of becoming an open wallet in order to earn your daughter's love.

In the end, the only place that you can find help and solace is within yourself. I'm sorry if this sounds corny. Continuing to allow this open wound to fester will just infect the rest of your life.

Accept that you have done everything that you could. Accept that you are a good person that's had a difficult experience. Accept that although you will never stop loving your daughter there is nothing more you can do. Acceptance is not giving up. It's just saying that you can't change the situation at this point in time.

Try to find happiness in other areas of your life.

[JHY]

Twinkiedooter/Gemini54.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I think that deep down I know that I should follow the course you recommend, I suppose I just needed somebody to tell me that it was okay to at least try letting go. Gemini54, your husband will understand too that a fathere's love for his daughter is a unique and special thing. I don't know if in his case it is an only child, but this too increases the hurt as the opportunities to be part of her life as she is growing have gone for ever, I think that is the worst part.
Thank you again, it really has helped as I at last understand what I have to do.

[twopenneth]

What I'm left wondering is what's wrong with you? I mean you've roundly summed up the three ladies' problems in neat little nuggets of wisdom but what about you? What would each one say about you? Have you ever even looked at yourself? I mean you've walked out on a marriage and a wife with a (diagnosable? By who? You?) personality disorder (which one? How valid a diagnostic category is it? Ever read any anti-psychiatry literature?), abandoned a daughter during the all-important self-esteem forming pubescent years, compounded your abandonment by leaving the country, yet you have nothing to say about your own failings in life and/or as a human being? Funny that!
Some might say its 'projection'...
Me, I'd say you have to show, over an exhaustingly long period (as in decades), that you are there for your daughter, 110%, goddamit 200%, that you can be trusted, that you are reliable, that you will not judge her, or try to control her, or diagnose her, that you will not be re-abandoning her a third time (and a fourth and a fifth), that you will not wimp out the first time she doesn't fall all over you in gratitude for deigning to give her some of your precious time/thoughts/cash!
Time to learn to be a parent - it's a thankless task and takes a whole life time but worth it, unlike the alternative!!

[JHY]

Hi twopenneth,
I note that you are a 'junior member' not that makes your reply no less valid. To answer you may I first of all say that I'm fully aware of my failings and freely admit to them. One of them being that I was not born equipped to deal with the devious and manipulative mind of an alcoholic wife. This made me act clumsily when trying to bond with my daughter as my position was constantly being undermined and I was frequently goaded into over-reacting to events which saw me labelled as a 'Victorian Father'. My wife's Physcological problems were explaind to me by a consultant physician who knew us both and was treating me for depression brought on by my inability to cope with my wife's drinking. And no I didn't abandon my daughter, from the proceeds of the sale of the marital home they bought a comfortable aprtment and I lived literally 8 minutes driving time away as it was my intention that we should share her. Unfortunately my wife decided otherwise and filled her with negative propaganda, unaware that my daughter would at times relate back to me the lies that had been fed her.
So, no, I'm by no means perfect, but I'm not a bad Dad. I wasn't a gambler, alcoholic, womaniser, and neither was I lazy. I worked every hour available to provide for them and to give her the best education I could afford. This too was thrown back in my face. Hardly more than 4 or 5 days pass when I haven't sent her a message of love and support by either taext or mail as she won't return calls. Sadly two months agao she was the victim of rape at knife point, I hope that when you mature and become a parent you never have to endure the pain that all parties feel when such a thing happens. Of course I wanted to reach out to her as I have done for every single minute of our 7 year estrangement but I am still rejected and can only camp outside her fence until she lets me in. Unfortunately I believe that all the time she is living with my ex-wife this will never change. The split happened because I genuinely believed that it was 1, The only way that I could have a proper relationship with my daughter. 2, I felt that more damage would be done to her if the poisonous atmosphere of a loveless marriage continued.

[JHY]

Hi twopenneth,
I note that you are a 'junior member' not that makes your reply no less valid. To answer you may I first of all say that I'm fully aware of my failings and freely admit to them. One of them being that I was not born equipped to deal with the devious and manipulative mind of an alcoholic wife. This made me act clumsily when trying to bond with my daughter as my position was constantly being undermined and I was frequently goaded into over-reacting to events which saw me labelled as a 'Victorian Father'. My wife's Physcological problems were explaind to me by a consultant physician who knew us both and was treating me for depression brought on by my inability to cope with my wife's drinking. And no I didn't abandon my daughter, from the proceeds of the sale of the marital home they bought a comfortable aprtment and I lived literally 8 minutes driving time away as it was my intention that we should share her. Unfortunately my wife decided otherwise and filled her with negative propaganda, unaware that my daughter would at times relate back to me the lies that had been fed her.
So, no, I'm by no means perfect, but I'm not a bad Dad. I wasn't a gambler, alcoholic, womaniser, and neither was I lazy. I worked every hour available to provide for them and to give her the best education I could afford. This too was thrown back in my face. Hardly more than 4 or 5 days pass when I haven't sent her a message of love and support by either taext or mail as she won't return calls. Sadly two months agao she was the victim of rape at knife point, I hope that when you mature and become a parent you never have to endure the pain that all parties feel when such a thing happens. Of course I wanted to reach out to her as I have done for every single minute of our 7 year estrangement but I am still rejected and can only camp outside her fence until she lets me in. Unfortunately I believe that all the time she is living with my ex-wife this will never change. The split happened because I genuinely believed that it was 1, The only way that I could have a proper relationship with my daughter. 2, I felt that more damage would be done to her if the poisonous atmosphere of a loveless marriage continued. Instead I was treated like a leper.
Yes there are times that I regret the decision, but I also know that if the split had not have happened the situation would have worsened. I love my daughter as much as any father loves his daughter. I have and always will be here for here and have gone to great lengths to let her know it. I now recognise that I am suffering from is a form of bereavement for which there's no closure and it's a special kind of pain. You may think that I'm deserving of it and have brought it on myself. All I can say is that I was in this relationship, not you , and I pray that you make a wiser choice when it comes to choosing a partner. Regards JHY

[Jake2008]

What you cannot do, is go back in time. You cannot correct anything, or reverse anything that has been done.

I'm sure in retrospect you would have done things differently, but you don't have that luxury.

If my calculations are correct (on only 1/2 a cup of coffee so far.. ), you left when she was about 8 years old. Your original post was in 2009, so, has it been another two years since the post that you have not seen your daughter? You have been gone 10 years now?

What you left was a child, what you have now, is a teenager. They are very different species. Under the very best of circumstaces, it isn't likely that she'd spend much time with Dad, let alone spend time with you after such a long separation, durng her growing years. She is nearly an adult now, and you left when she was just a child.

While your ex wife and sister are seen by you as causal in this whole thing, I don't see it that way. Many alcoholics haven't had a drop for years; has she been sober most of this time that you have been gone? Calling her an alcoholic seems to put blame somehow on her, for you needing to leave and live in another country. Also, what is a 'diagnosable personality disorder'. Is this just your assessment of her, or has she received treatment for a mental disorder, and been diagnosed by a Psychiatrist?

If she is both an active alcoholic, and mentally unstable, then I fail to see why you moved in the first place, and instead, did not gain full custody. If you are using these words to describe how she was, or how she is in your own opinion, it sounds bitter, and is probably redundant in explaining why you were not legally in this child's life, with court ordered visitation. It would really have had nothing to do with the mother, unless there was a reason here why you did not seek that route, when your daughter was a young chid.

Let's presume it is bitterness talking, and also assume that she has had a stable life. Your sister should be congratulated for sticking around and being a part of her development all these years. That is not an easy position for her to be in, when you are no longer married to the child's mother. She must have the tact of an angel to still be involved.

And you are left with a teenager who has problems, which almost all teenagers do. You do have options. One is to drop the bitterness, character assassinations, presumptions, and negative attitude toward your ex, and your sister. You could attempt some sort of communication with your ex wife, in order to be directly informed as to what is going on in your daughters life. You could enlist her help, and your sister's help, in fascilitating visitation, and regular communication. You could move back, and while your daughter is still a minor, seek legal council to establish visitation, although your daughter would have some influence in this regard due to her age. She is old enough to say she does not want forced visitation.

You could plan to meet with your daughters' mother, and your sister, in person, and see if three grown adults cannot come up with one plan.

There is likely far more guilt with the parent who is actually raising the child day to day, making decisions day to day, sitting up waiting for them t come home, wondering and not knowing what they are up to, and bulking the majority, if not all, of the guilt of not being able to keep on top of a teenager who thinks she knows more than her mother, and any adult.

That you have been at arm's length, and providing monetary support now and then via a car, private schooling etc. is not considered active parenting. That is providing things. Things and gestures do not a relationship make between a father and daughter. Physical time together, frequent visits, continuous, uninterrupted communication, does make a father. Had you done that, you would have every right to be 'in the loop' as far as progress and/or problems. But being at arm's length during all these years, when you could have done things differently, cannot be erased, and must be taken into consideration before you talk so critically of those who have raised her.

You may be in a position now, where you have to wait until she is a mature adult, on her own, supporting herself, and steering her own life. At that time, she may contact you, and the two of you could make up for a great deal of tme lost, because, I do believe you would do that, given the opportunity.

You may have missed out on much due to the choices you made, but, that is again, not something you can change. I agree that you shouldn't be beating yourself up over the past, but I'd add to that, you should find a way to lose the continuing bitterness toward your wife and sister. That in itself will thwart even future possibilities of a relationship with your daughter, because it will be them she turns to with life's problems, and them she returns to when she has her own children, etc. You can hope for a relationship, but to remain bitter, is not good for any of the parties involved in this child's life.

Good luck to you in establishing a relationship with your daughter, keep at it, continue to send email, and encourage visits (hopefully fairly regularly), and who knows- she may take you up on letting her in her life. At her age, and being a teenager, that decision will be up to her.

[JHY]

Hello Jake 2008. My original post may come across as sounding bitter but I was anxious to keep it as short as possible and to the point. The split occurred when my daughter was 11 years old, she's now 18. I have to correct you in that I didn't leave her. The intolerable situation at home was resolved by her parents occupying two different properties, my intention was that I would play a greter part in her life, not less. It was her Mother's decision that she would become estranged from me, not mine. Had she entered into the spirit of what was agreed between us at the time things could have been so different. I'm not bitter towards my ex-wife, in an effort to help understand her addiction and thereby help her deal with it I enrolled with Alanon, the organisation which helps relatives of alcoholics. This taught me that alcoholism is an illness and I am in fact quite compassionate towards her in this regard. Her behaviour was described to me as that of a sociapath. I'm not sure whether this is a cause or as a result of her addiction to alcohol, but the pattern of distressing events that came from this eventually eroded any feelings that I had for her. It would be too lengthy and too distressing to go into here but rest assured that I tried my best to keep it all together. I was determined to stay until my daughter was at least 18 but in the end as previously noted the situation became intolerable.

[Jake2008]

I re-read your original post, and you did, indeed, sound bitter. Almost like an important part of your life was out of your control, and several years later, you are still struggling with the same basic issues of loss, regret, and helplessness.

It is a terrible burden to keep ruminating about these issues. It may just be time to put to rest what you cannot change, and get on with living your life, and doing what you can, in the present, and in the future.

Keep in touch best you can with your daughter, on a regular basis Even a phone call once a week, or an email, or both. Let her know that you are thinking about her, and let her in on your own life. What you do, how your week has gone.

Being a teen, she may respond in single sentences, but, she will remember that you contacted her. When she is older, you may likely have a far better relationship than you may realize. All you really can do, is keep whatever communication you have with her, alive. It really doesn't matter that her mother and your sister seem to have shut you out in your opinion, you can only do your best as a father, to extend the lifeline to your daughter, and no one else.

One more thing you might want to consider, and that is counselling for yourself. It would help to get all of this out and talked over with a professional, who can offer you more direct insight and help in coping with all this heartache.

I don't know that even under the best and most ideal of situations, that most of us haven't experienced some of what you have. Even if it is dealing with a teenager, and an ex. I do hope that things get better for you with time, and that at some point you and your daughter will have a close relationship. That would be something to look forward to. She will benefit, and so will you.

All the best to you in making that happen.

[JHY]

Hi again Jake2008.
I'm afraid I hit the button too early. I was half way through my reply but having read your last posting I can dispense with much of it. As I'm sure you realise, I will never forsake my daughter and as noted have constantly let her know that I'm thinking of her. On a lighter note I had a positive response from her just yesterday to meeting on my next visit to the UK. If I wasn't allowed to be there for the last part of her life maybe I can be a part of the next, I truly hope so. With regard to counselling I have tried to find help but language difficulties and overseas assignments mean that I've not been able to do so. Also the macho world of Oil and Gas means that I have to put a brave face on my despair. I'm not by nature an emotionally strong person which makes it all the more debilitating. Thank you for your kind thoughts, your reponses and those of others have helped and indeed made me look closer at my part in all this and this too is a kind of therapy I suppose. I'm know I've made mistakes along the way and nobody is blameless in these situations but my heart has always been in the right place despite all.

Regards,
JHY

[twopenneth]

I may be a 'Junior Member' but having raised a smart, well-adjusted, happy daughter single-handedly to adulthood, having gone through several cycles of her absent father's half-arsed, soul-destroying attempts to reconnect with her, and having counselled numerous teenagers (including the children of alcoholics, as well as rape victims and their parents), I don't feel I'm lacking in the 'mature parent' category, as compared to you! Not that I should have to justify myself! My original advice to you was sound, as is Jake2008's. I hope you find a way to be the father your daughter has missed out on, out of love for her, not pity for yourself! Good luck and good bye.

[RICK8888]

JHY,

My heart goes out to you. You have been through a very painful situation (estrangement from only child).

I am in a similar situation, and I understand how one can keep going over everything in one's head, night and day. It is also completely natural to feel sad and bitter. But over the long term, these emotions will not help us, so we need to try to take on a positive outlook towards life, and try to wish that our estranged children and those close to them are healthy and happy.

Please don't feel like it's all your fault. There were 3 people involved in the estrangement: your ex-wife, your daughter, and yourself (the father). As the non-custodial parent, you clearly had the least influence over your daughter's thoughts, behaviors, and reactions. You were never in a position where you could definitively determine the outcome. You did what you could in good faith, and you hoped for the best, but it didn't work out.

Perhaps the most important thing to do is find happiness and health (mental, physical, financial) for yourself, so that you will be able to play a positive and supporting role in your daughter's life if she does become interested in having a relationship with you at some point in the future.

Good luck to you!!

[Rome1]

OK everyone. You are not going to like this answer but you just have to sit back and let it settle before you comment. Ready?. SOMETIMES THE DADDY LOSES! Go on with your life. If your kid wants in then they will find you. You will never have a peaceful nights sleep or a holiday that your gut isn't churning but there is nothing you can do about it. Get over the guilt of not having a perfect marriage and not raising the perfect child. You are not going to beat the forces that have driven the wedge between you and your child. Get use to the idea that maybe your child does not love you or maybe she does but is to angry right now to even feel it. If you think that throwing yourself under the bus over and over and over again is going to have an affect on that then do so at your own peril. You think that one day the child is going to wake up and say oh what a wonderful Dad I have because you keep committing emotional suicide day after day then you are in for a life of pain and lost time. If your lucky she will turn up at your bedside to see if you're going to leave her anything in your will. She is going to be angry, hostile or not even care about you for as long as it takes for her to figure it out and I'm sorry to say, that may never happen. You have another choice here as well. If she doesn't want you in her life, then get out. Make her happy and give her what she wants and at the same time find peace for yourself. Yes she knows your still there for her because of your actions but as long as you continue them she will crucify you. If you stop, then she may wonder why and seek you out or she may figure that she has to cut the crap or lose any chance of reconciliation. In either case you just don't know so choose the path that will give you peace of mind and your life back. If this child is going to be a mess, she is going to do it with or without you. Another thing to remember... THE CHILD ALWAYS LOSES in these scenarios. The good news,, although she is always your child , she will also be an adult and can take responsibility for her own actions.