Check out some similar questions!

paraclete · Jul 9, 2009, 07:10 PM

It appears the faithful have found a new idol/icon in the form of a newly cut tree stump in Ireland. Workers clearing trees in a school yard were apparently more delecate than usual in cutting a tree and hey presto what should emerge than a somewhat fanciful image of Mary. The locals immediately decided that this is an object of veneration and flocked.

It is my opinion that religion must be fairly destitute if the people are looking for icons in tree stumps. We are called to place our faith in God and make no craven image and yet here we are with a large number of people seeking to revere an imagined image in a tree stump

Now I know why my ancestors left Ireland.

450donn · Jul 9, 2009, 07:42 PM

And yet, the world has flocked to their televisions to watch the fiasco of Michael Jackson and nobody says a word about that form of idol worship. Why is that?

paraclete · Jul 10, 2009, 11:53 PM

I only comment on false religion and superstition. Michael Jackson is like many before him, falsely idolised because he exhibits a skill in his chosen profession, but is anyone suggesting they pray to Michael Jackson and he could change their circumstance, yet they pray before a lump of wood and expect a miracle.:rolleyes:

Tj3 · Jul 11, 2009, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

I only comment on false religion and superstition. Michael Jackson is like many before him, falsely idolised because he exhibits a skill in his chosen profession, but is anyone suggesting they pray to Michael Jackson and he could change their circumstance, yet they pray before a lump of wood and expect a miracle.:rolleyes:

Several years ago, there was a group idolizing and I believe worshiping him as Michael the Archangel. This goes back probably 15-20 years. Of course there was also a church of Elvis formed after he died.

I have become more and more convinced as the years go by that most people will follow anything, believe anything , worship anything as long as it is not the one true God, and the only gospel which saves.

On the topic of false religion and superstition, I present this as "Exhibit B";)

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Saudi 'genie' sued for harassment

firmbeliever · Jul 11, 2009, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by 450donn

And yet, the world has flocked to their televisions to watch the fiasco of Micheal Jackson and nobody says a word about that form of idol worship. Why is that?

This is so true.
MJ like many others before and after him will be idolised by people and followed by many.

IRISHSAINT26 · Jul 11, 2009, 07:19 AM

I really can't see anything wrong with this, or the people of Ireland for just wanting something good to happen.. something you could call amazing, and if you think the tree stump is that bad... what do u think about the piece of bloody toast with the image of Mother Mary that sold for what was it around 28,000 or the other holy food... let others be believe what they want to believe, and if you don't like ideology, then I suggest you make like your ancestors and get the bloody heck out of America...

450donn · Jul 11, 2009, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by IRISHSAINT26

I really can't see anything wrong with this, or the people of Ireland for just wanting something good to happen..something you could call amazing, and if you think the tree stump is that bad...what do u think about the piece of bloody toast with the image of Mother Mary that sold for what was it around 28,000 or the other holy food...let others be believe what they want to believe, and if you don't like ideology, then i suggest you make like your ancestors and get the bloody heck out of America...

Do you mean idol worship?

IRISHSAINT26 · Jul 11, 2009, 11:47 AM

No I do not condone the worship of false idols, but to each his own
I was saying that there's a lot of that going on everywhere and should not basically say the irish are crazy... I love the mj example
And never knew there was a church of elvis wow both great entertainers but don't think they are the way to the afterlife does that make sense?

paraclete · Jul 11, 2009, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by IRISHSAINT26

I really can't see anything wrong with this, or the people of Ireland for just wanting something good to happen..something you could call amazing, and if you think the tree stump is that bad...what do u think about the piece of bloody toast with the image of Mother Mary that sold for what was it around 28,000 or the other holy food...let others be believe what they want to believe, and if you don't like ideology, then i suggest you make like your ancestors and get the bloody heck out of America...

Look, this sort of nonsense has even happened in my own land far removed from old Europe. Hopefully it will be short lived, but where are the people spiritually, I think they must be bankrupt to put their hope in such things. Here the native people see all sorts of spirits all over the place, but we christians take no notice of them

As far as america is concerned, only been there once and quite happy to move on and shake the dust off my shoes. It is sad for the Irish and others that to prosper they have had to move from their native land but such is the result of oppression and not being in the economic centre

IRISHSAINT26 · Jul 12, 2009, 03:27 PM

I wasn't saying I do it or I believe it personally I am just saying let people believe what they want, do what the will, and live their own life.

redhed35 · Jul 12, 2009, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by IRISHSAINT26

i wasn't saying i do it or i believe it personally i am just saying let people believe what they want, do what the will, and live their own life.

I was reading about that today.. I agree with you in that let people live their lives..
Sometimes people need proof,I'm certainly not saying this tree stump is proof of anything!

However,in today's society,wherever you live people look for proof of god,for hope.
If it gives comfort and peace to those who need it then really that's OK with me.

I believe in jesus,I don't worship tree stumps or dead singers,but I do as I said appreciate peoples need for proof.

Tj3 · Jul 12, 2009, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by redhed35

i was reading about that today..i agree with you in that let people live their lives..
sometimes people need proof,im certainly not saying this tree stump is proof of anything!

however,in todays society,wherever you live people look for proof of god,for hope.
if it gives comfort and peace to those who need it then really thats ok with me.

i believe in jesus,i dont worship tree stumps or dead singers,but i do as i said appreciate peoples need for proof.

I don't see how a tree stump is proof of anything. Anyone who seeks truth of the reality of Jesus Christ and who He is can find that proof in the words of scripture, which is validated by historical evidence, the inerrancy of scripture, and the archeological evidence.

You can buy devices to make images of Jesus or Mary or others in toast, I have seen potatoes that look like different things also, so such images or apparent images prove absolutely nothing. Further what if someone sees what appears to be an image of a different god, or something else in a tree stump. Is that proof that Christianity is wrong? No, once again it is proof of nothing.

redhed35 · Jul 12, 2009, 04:19 PM

I think I agreed that I don't think a tree stump is proof of anything,however I cannot say if someone else feels or sees it that way.

I do see that people are lost,seeking answers where there is only smoke and shadows,but none the less finding brief solace in that illusion.

The truth is a lot of people don't want to seek christ,you and I may know trying to get to the father through a tree stump is impossible,but lots of people don't think like that.

I'm a christian.
I did not seek god,he sought me.

I take my walk with jesus seriously,I do not need proof of god,I know.but I am not blind to others peoples need for proof.
I don't feel its my place to judge them,or laugh at them.

Tj3 · Jul 12, 2009, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by redhed35

i dont feel its my place to judge them,or laugh at them.

Agreed, but we are commanded to judge doctrine and actions and unless we are prepared to make them aware that they are looking in the wrong places, with love, then they could be misled away from the true God.

redhed35 · Jul 12, 2009, 04:42 PM

My pastor made a comment based on a sermon he was giving,he said that theses images were of the devil,if the devil can take away focus from christ he's doing his job. Or words to that effect.

I don't believe god meant for me to come alone, I'm not a closet christian,but what has happened in and around my area,is some very strong minded and forceful christians have forgotten that its not there job to pressure people,only to plant the seed of thought,god will do the rest,and even at that,I firmly believe in free will.

IRISHSAINT26 · Jul 12, 2009, 07:00 PM

I think your words are wonderful redhead

Fr_Chuck · Jul 12, 2009, 07:03 PM

I guess I can only think of the church leaders in Jesus day that said they could not see anything in the work of Christ that caused them to believe him to be the Christ.

The nature of Christ, of Jesus, of God is visible everywhere, and to some it may be more visible in many places.

paraclete · Jul 12, 2009, 10:37 PM

The visible presence of the invisible God is not visible in tree stumps, that is the whole point of this post. What did Jesus say about those who were looking for signs
Matthew 12:39 NIV
He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
I think that about sums it up
John 12:40 NIV
"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them."

2 Corinthians 4:4 NIV
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Not only have the unbelievers been blinded but also the believers

redhed35 · Jul 13, 2009, 02:54 AM

What if and I'm only surmising here,one person goes to see that stump,and it triggers a lifetime commitment to god,commitment is the wrong word,I'm going to say love of god.

paraclete,you have a wonderful knowledge,and great reference technique,but there's just one little thing,GOD does he thing,with or without debate from us.

Being a good servant is also about taking your place in christ,behaving in a manner that befits your beliefs,as Fr Chuck says,God is everywhere in
Mountains,sunsets,tree stumps and in the people who look at it.

Tj3 · Jul 13, 2009, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by redhed35

what if and im only surmising here,one person goes to see that stump,and it triggers a lifetime commitment to god,commitment is the wrong word,im going to say love of god.

What "god" are they going to be committed to by seeing a tree stump? They need to hear the gospel, not see some anomaly of nature.

Rom 10:14-15
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

"How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!"
NKJV