[ae1]

Old (1962) slab house, southwest Florida. Half-bath off bedroom.

A couple days of toilet gurgling, a couple back-ups, but no overflowing, and plunging worked. Then it wouldn't, but it would eventually run down empty and kind of breathe out that nasty sewer smell from time to time. I thought it was just a clog breaking up in the line and if I left it be, it would clear itself away. Closed the door and didn't bother with it for a couple days. I was washing a bunch of dishes and the child comes in and says "it stinks real bad in your room." I figured it was the same gas escaping, but looked anyway. There was HOT water an inch deep all over the half-bath floor, seeping under the wall into the closet, all up in the carpet in the bedroom, etc. It was clear water, not clean, but mainly clear. The toilet bowl was full of BLACK water. Plunging had no effect. Eventually it ran down. Flushed, didn't empty, but the black gunk settled and water eventually ran down. This morning got a snake and hosed the vent. Felt like a blockage broke up, but flushed toilet, and it didn't go down. Couldn't get that snake to run down into the toilet line. Couldn't force it around the bends. Any ideas? And why would the flood water be hot?

Single mom. No money for a plumber. Teachable. BUT I Can't HANDLE THIS STANK!!

[speedball1]

Greetings from a old 1955 slab house in Sarasota,

"gurgles" indicate a blocked vent while "bubbles" and sewer gas indicate a partial blockage in the drain line. Sounds like you might have blth plus a stopped up toilet. Congratulations! You have a full house. Mom! I think you're going to need a plumber to get you out of your mess. I think I can explain the hot water away. Were you running a washer or a dishwasher just before your kid came in with the good news that the bathroom was flooded?
Toilets are designed to seal discharge one way and that's with the flow. Anything backing up the line, such as a appliance discharge, and coming up in the closet bend could spill out around the horn of the bowl and past the seal out on the floor. When you snaked the toilet did you use a closet auger, (see image) or did you attempt it with a snake? You're going to need a sewer machine,(see image) to clear your vent and drain lines. If you wish to try it yourself you can rent one but since you're going to hafta take it up to the roof to snake the vent it ain't going to be easy. But if you're game I can walk you through it. Otherwise call in outside help. Waiting to hear from you. Tom

[ae1]

ARRGH! THANKS for answering. I was up on the roof trying to snake it from there again. I tried the toilet auger thing. Did nothing. Then I got a 25 foot drain snake and couldn't even get it more than a couple feet into the toilet. Just couldn't get it around the bends, and by then it was full of that black stanky crud. So then I went into the cleanout on the back of the house and it did seem to be loosening up something; I got a trickly flow of nasty blackness, but it didn't create any change in the toilet situation, so I went back on the roof and tried the vent again. Maybe my pipe's collapsed in on itself?

I can't afford a plumber. Literally. I've got $45 bucks to my name, no friends and no family other than the two kids. Suggestions?

[ae1]

Also, I cleverly ran the washing machine this afternoon to wash the throwugs and towels, etc. that I used to stop the flow last night. Lo and behold, the toilet started spilling onto the floor again. Since I am not totally brain dead, I deduced that the blockage must be downstream from both the washing machine and the bathroom, so the washer water was coming into the potty. Here's what confounds me, though. Last night, I was handwashing dishes, lots of hot water. If that's what was flowing into and over the edge of the toilet, wouldn't the blockage be downline of the kitchen drain also? But today when I was out at the cleanout, water draining in kitchen sink flowed right on out and I watched it go by. What do you make of that?

[ae1]

Okay, no I tell a lie. Or part of one, maybe. Just to troubleshoot it again, I turned the tap on in the kitchen and went and looked at the toilet. First it bubbled, then sho' nuff, it started to fill and that black muck started churning and clouding up from the bottom. So to me it really does look like its backfilling from the exit, rather than flowing down from under the rim, if I understood you correctly.

I'm exhausted. Scooped the crud out of the toilet to prevent any more overflow, sliced up the carpet in the bedroom and pulled it out of there. Still no closer to a solution on the toilet back up. This is not going so great.

Throwing myself on the mercy of the Speedball...

[speedball1]

The problem with a 25' snake is that it's too short to reach a clog. By the time you drop it down a vent it's half used up by the time it hits the base and the clogs more then 12 1/2' beyond the end of the snake. Beg, borrow or steal a longer snake and send it down the lavatory vent. Ya got the right idea but the wrong tools to do the job. BTW. I've worked all over the West Gulf Coast from New Port Richy, Tampa Bay all the way down through Fort Myers. What city do you live near? Regards, tom

[ae1]

I'm allaway down in Naples, just where 41 curves and heads east, at the Gordon River. 600 feet to the river in either direction, and flood prone. Perfect for developing plumbing problems.

About the snake length... you figure the clog's not in the vicinity of the toilet then? What about when I went in from the cleanout? The whole distance from there to the toilet can't be but about 20 feet in a straight line. Not saying it IS a straight line... phooey.

Dude next door said to run the garden hose into the vent. I suppose maybe if you just had leaves blocking it up top and nothing down below, but to me that sounds like a good way to fill my bathroom with garden hose water.

What I can't figure is how come running the water in the kitchen or bathroom sink makes the black crud churn up in the commode. And is there some kind of chemical I could pour into there overnight that might help? Like if I poured it in the kitchen or bathroom sinks, maybe into the bowl, too?

Oh yeah, one more thing. I get a LOT of rust on the snake when I pull it back out of the vent. Are my iron pipes rotting?

[ae1]

I'm going to go fetch some liquid plumber or something and see if it breaks up this mess by morning... unless there's something else you think would be better..

[speedball1]

"About the snake length ... you figure the clog's not in the vicinity of the toilet then? What about when I went in from the cleanout? The whole distance from there to the toilet can't be but about 20 feet in a straight line. Not saying it IS a straight line"

The problem with snaking back to the house from the cleanout is that you're never sure of where the snake will go. A outside clean out is designed to snake from the house to the street. It could just as easy come up a closet bend and break a toilet bowl. The only sure way is to come down a vent.

"Dude next door said to run the garden hose into the vent. I suppose maybe if you just had leaves blocking it up top and nothing down below, but to me that sounds like a good way to fill my bathroom with garden hose water."

Looks like you have more plumbing smarts then your dude next door.


"What I can't figure is how come running the water in the kitchen or bathroom sink makes the black crud churn up in the commode. And is there some kind of chemical I could pour into there overnight that might help? Like if I poured it in the kitchen or bathroom sinks, maybe into the bowl, too?
Oh yeah, one more thing. I get a LOT of rust on the snake when I pull it back out of the vent. Are my iron pipes rotting?
i'm going to go fetch some liquid plumber or something and see if it breaks up this mess by morning... unless there's something else you think would be better...?"

The blockage's downstream from the kitchen sink and the toilet causing the action in the toilet. Yes the inside walls of the cast iron pipes have lost the tar coating and are rusting out. I have the same problem.
I am no fan of pouring harsh chemicals down your drainage system. They only seem to work in TV commercials. The only way I know of to get you out of this mess is to rent a sewer machine and snake from the vent. Good luck, Tom

[ae1]

Okay, that's going to have to wait a couple days, but I'll report back. You've been great, but one more vocab question... what's the difference between the outside cleanout plug that's right behind the house, like 18 inches from the back wall of the (functioning) bathroom, and the one that's about 20 feet out into the front yard? Are they normally referred to with different terms?

Thanks!

[letmetellu]

Ae1 do you rent your house or do you own it. If you rent call the landlord and tell him the problem and let him get it repaired. If you own your home then you need to get on the phone and call some different agencies that might help you... for one you could call the Salvation Army there are people to help you only you have to let them know.

[speedball1]

Okay, that's going to have to wait a couple days, but I'll report back. You've been great, but one more vocab question... what's the difference between the outside cleanout plug that's right behind the house, like 18 inches from the back wall of the (functioning) bathroom, and the one that's about 20 feet out into the front yard? Are they normally referred to with different terms?

Thanks!

They are both cleanouts. Code mandates a cleanout every 50' and at every change of direction which is greater then 45 degrees. Regards, Tom

[ae1]

WOO-HOOO!

Chicks with tools! Who needs a husband, long as you got a good ole boy giving guidance! You are the BEST, Tom! I don't care what they say about y'all Yankees!

Okay, now I guess we clean this monster off and return it. Should I run it through all my other lines first, just on principle?

Dang, you don't know how happy I am... Tom ROCKS!

Ae

[speedball1]

Yankee? Hell Girl I'm a Florida cracker! If you think the other vents need it the rent's paid on it. Go for it! Tom

[ae1]

Well, more fool I. I thought I read somewhere about your daddy running a 40-man plumbing shop in Wisconsin, but then I read too much.

You're my hero, no matter what. You stay safe and dry with Ernesto coming. Whether he makes hurricane status again or not, looks like he's going to be real sloppy and wet, all the same, and that's going to mean more plumbing disasters afterwards, so you'll be needed.

God bless you!

(... now where's the link to that scoring thingy.. )

[speedball1]

"I thought I read somewhere about your daddy running a 40-man plumbing shop in Wisconsin."
And so you did but we moved to Florida over 50 years ago and still live in the same house that my family bought brand new. While I was raised in Beloit Wisconsin I'm a cracker now. 55 years out in the Florida sun will turn you into one. Let's hope you're on high ground for Ernestro. The forecast puts you in the cone passing you at 2 AM on Wedsday. If the forecast holds true Tampa Bay's dodged the bullet one more time. Good luck, Tom