[OverwhelmedInMD]

My husband is a very kind and generous man and everyone who meets him loves him, including, of course, me.

We met while I was in grad school and he was working as a bartender in a local hangout. We were friendly/flirty for almost a year before we started dating and a couple of years later were happily married with what I thought was a lot of shared plans (I say plans, not dreams, because there was an actual plan and steps and timeline that we had mapped out exhaustively before we married) to move onward and upward together, on our own and without the help of family (unlike most of both of our siblings). It was both of us mapping out these plans, not just me. I think. I thought. I don't know anymore.

I do not mean to sound overly pecuniary, but part of the plan was for us both to work hard to get us into a secure financial position so that we could start a family and raise our children in a manner similar to that in which we both had been raised. (Husband had difficulties with school, did not finish undergrad, was stuck in a job/workplace that undervalued him, but is smart; however, we came from similar socio-economic backgrounds and values and I thought that two out of three wasn't so bad -- yes, I'm overly prone to musical lyric references).

While I was in grad school full time, before we were married, I did accept limited financial support from my family, while also working 30 hours a week. My work efforts and family contributions were the huge majority of what paid for our household as we "lived in sin" before marriage. I don't know if this created some sort of expectation or embarassment; either way, it was always a situation that I made clear would not continue once I graduated.

Through busting my 60-80+ hours a week, I have gotten to exactly where I planned to be careerwise for each of the approximately 2-3 years apart career, job title and financial thresholds/marker points that was in our plan for what I was going to do for us.

My husband has not even started. It's been almost 9 years now. A couple of years ago, we mutually agreed that maybe he needed to have the opportunity to concentrate full time on his career development so he could get started, so, with my full encouragement and blessings, he quit the job he hated anyway, took some classes and got certified as a Real Estate agent. Obviously, right now the market is tough, and I can live with that and support him, emotionally and financially through it.

What I find it more and more difficult to absorb is the fact that he is not even trying to make it work on any dimension. We can absorb a couple of years of him BUILDING a career, but he is not doing that in any way shape or form that I can see: It's been two years and he's shown exactly one house to one prospective buyer. He doesn't pursue any sort of routes in which he might find success, no matter how many (sometimes, very pricey) seminars he attends. He has made no effort whatsoever to advertise, and I have indicated on multiple occasions (and even had him talk out strategies with me, and given full indication that he has whatever reasonable financial resources he should need at his disposal, but NOTHING).

I can also totally accept and would support it if he wants to decide that a successful professional career is not what he wants, and maybe he wants to pursue a successful domestic career instead (that's what my Mom did, I have the highest respect for that life choice because I know for damn sure that I would not be who and where I am if not for her efforts) if we ever get to a place where I actually know that his sustained priorities are such that I could be comfortable enough where I would know that he would make homemaking his top priority to raise children properly.

Homemaking seemed to have interested him for about a year, which encouraged me. We used to have someone help around the house, but that had to be eliminated when we went to a single income. For a year or so, he took to housekeeping with moderate enthusiasm: cooking was elaborate for a while, dishes were always done, laundry was usually done, and everything else got taken care of by request.

Now: laundry and cooking are sporadic, and the cooking is more Hamburger Helper than real food; dishes are usually on me, and all other requests might be done within a months' time or two, or else I just have to do them myself.

I'm so stuck. On one hand, I realize that there is a strong likelihood that he may be suffering from depression and definitely, even to my untrained eye, seems to exhibit signs of it (at this point, I think I might be too), but he also blows off my encouragement to see his GP, who might be able to advise him to see someone. I am not (or at least, trying damn hard not to be) demanding or y (even though I seem like it here... I'm venting on you all instead of him), and even though I fully realize that my personal work ethic may be intimidating and hard to live up to, I am trying desparately to give this man that I do really love, every encouragement, emotionally and otherwise, that he needs to get to be the person he wants to be, whatever it may be.

On the other hand: This is not what we agreed to and planned for! Whatever else a marriage may be, it's also a contract and a set of mutual obligations! A couple of months ago, after first trying to write, then discarding, out of embarrassment, this "help" letter, I realized that several years back, I had a co-worker, who could, in the abstract, be described as having a similar situation, and I remember flippantly telling her, "Roll him off... he's just a freeloader."

He might be a freeloader, or else he might be a person who needs more help and encouragement that I have been able to provide so far.

I have tried to talk to him about this a couple of times. I have indicated that I feel overwhelmed with continuing to assume all of the financial obligations, and now also a lot of the domestic obligations of maintaining our household. When I try and bring it up, he sinks into deep silence, sometimes for several days, to the point where I am afraid to leave him alone. I make a concerted effort to bring it up in a "please let's figure this out together" way, rather than sounding like a nag.

On one site, I saw a reccomendation of laying out a x months timeline for the spouse to get themselves in order. I tried that about 6 months ago. He sunk into a deep depression and I was afraid to go to work and leave him alone at home. (Although, he does have the backgammon and the Facebook that so absorb him -- yes, that was unnecessarily y.)

I'd like advice on how to present alternatives to him so we can make some choices together. Ultimatums aren't really my style, which is why the above did not work. I think/hope that I'm a good person and that he's a good person, but I think we're in a weird stuck position.

Other: There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there are any sort of infidelity issues, for anyone who might suggest same; I think we're just goal crossed right now and need to figure out if/how we can get back on the same track.

Geez... did you actually read all the way through this? I wonder if I'll actually press send. If I do press send and you actually read all the way through, thank you in advance for any insight you can provide.

[Jake2008]

As soon as I started reading your post, depression came to mind. That he has reached a point where you are afraid to leave him alone is a red flag.

It is one thing to carry the burden when your partner runs into hard times, and also your obligation (I think) in a marriage, to help him get back on his feet. No plan is so well laid out that one will not carry the weight of the other at some point; psychologically, physically (illness), through financial crisis, etc.

I get the impression that he is likely the type of person that, if things were relatively normal and stable, he would move mountains for you, as you have for him.

So the question I have is, why isn't he trying. He has shown he is capable, obviously has people skills, interests etc. but more than just lack of motivation keeps him from enjoying his life. What you have described of his decline surely sounds like depression to me.

This is not something (if he is indeed clinically depressed) that you can change for him. He may have sparks of energy, make attempts to please you, but when he keeps going back to that dark place, and keeps slipping further and further away, it becomes a problem that is not short term with short term solutions.

In a practical sense, you've covered so much ground and tried so many things. His situation is not a reflection of your lack of commitment or encouragement or love. It is an illness that needs to be addressed, and the sooner the better.

Next comes the hard part. I realize you don't want to set expectations for his behaviour as far as accomplishing goals he has agreed to, in a punitive way. But, for your own mental health, you can't carry on as you have been. It's not good for either of you.

All I can say is, if it were me (I've been married 33 years), and this were happening in my marriage, I would insist on only one thing. A thourough checkup. Rule out the obvious.

Surely he can agree to that much of a compromise. If a checkup determines there is something physically or psychologically wrong with him, he will get the guidance and instruction he needs to begin to feel like himself again. You sound like the type of person who would bend over backwards to assist him- once he has helped himself.

Should there be no reason for his behaviour other than he has changed and become a different person by choice, you will have more to face. If he is capable, and chooses not to pull his weight and remain as he is... well, that is for you to decide what to do. If that is the case, I doubt very much any of your original plans together will ever materialize.

Some people change, maybe even more accurate to say that we all change over our lives, and marriage is no different. But, when spaghetti hits the fan over the big issues, eventually you meet on common ground and carry on. But, it takes two. When one decides to give up, and there is no common ground left, the other is left very unfulfilled and miserable.

I admire you for putting all the cards on the table, and taking a good long look at your relationship. It is not an easy thing to do with someone you love. We tend to sugarcoat things and hope for the best, but it is far healthier in my opinion, to do what you have done, and try to find some resolve.

[BIGBOPPER]

Hi! Let me start by saying that I am not an expert. However, I do have firsthand experience. My (I wish he was my ex,) husband, managed to run a comic book store into the ground, work seasonally for Hillshire Farms for two years, and nothing else for ten months. He got a job in a video arcade, which did lead to a promotion of his own store in another town. I had to leave my Radio job, and couldn't get another one, because Orlando was the closest market, and very big.
(BTW, I like the musical references. Kenny Rogers and Meatloaf? I bet our MP3 players have similar playlists.) My husband insisted that I become a stay at home "mom" to our 2.5 dust bunnies and the imaginary sheltie we had, since our apartment had a no pets policy.
His major goal in life, was to get rich off his comic book collection, and his action figures; which I looked on E-Bay recently. And if we sold them today, would net us enough to get dinner at Denny's, and two mocha latte-something something's from Starbucks.
Lster on, he decided that what he wanted to be when he grew up, was a convict. And he is one to this day.
I never encouraged him to be one, mind you, but I am glad that he is no longer there to drag me down.
Now. Don't get discouraged. That is my life, and it sounds like yours is actually better. At some point, he was willing to make a plan for furthering his ambitions. And it didn't depend on a speculative marke, or thirty year old geekst. Does he sound like he is deppressed? Yes he does. From my personal experience with bi-polar disorder, I can spot it a mile away. Try to talk to him about depression, print out some things from reputable sources, like webmd.com. And get him to look at them. Now what I can gather, from what you told me, it sounds like he got overwhelmed by his first attempt at a sale in the real estate business. Maybe that triggered something in him to make him stop what he is doing. That could lead to depression, when he realizes that he is not doing his fair share. Later on, when he tried to be a stay at home spouse, again an incident might have triggered him into deeper depression. I am not a licensed psychotherapist, but this is my opinion. What can you do to get him back on track? My suggestion is that you get him help. Depression is very much a physical problem. Medication can treat him to the point that he becomes his old self. In the meantime, do not try the "ultimation" approach, that obviously is not working, and might actually be causing more grief, because you are re-inforcing his guilt of not helping. Try talking to him about childhood memories, then lead him to "what did you want to be when you grew up?" Let him know what you wanted. If he responds with something that is not achievable today, say a spaceman, or a doctor, then steer the discussion to "If you could do something now, what would you do?" A modern version of the "grow up" question.
What are his hobbies? If any of them are career worthy, like wood working or mechanical stuff, encourage him to go to a local community college and get a degree, or certificate. If it is playing computer games, then how about being a computer programmer, or web designer?
Let him know, (if this is what you are willing to accept,) that he doesn't need to go by his earlier goals if being an (X) would make him happy.
A community college is cheaper than a four year degree, is transferable if he decides to pursue it further, and they are usually more relaxed on the students.
If he is unwilling to do that, then make him realize that the household needs help, and suggest that any job, even at the local fast food restaurant, is better than sitting at home. But try not to be combative about it. Try to be as encouraging as you can be.
I wish I could give you a timeline as to how long you should wait, but it depends on the individual. If at some point, you decide it's time to fold, do so, but in a way that lets him know that he is not out of your heart, but that it didn't work out the way you expected. I say never burn your bridges in a relationship unless you absolutely have to.
But then again, that's my opinion.
A note to others that follow me: If you feel that what I said is way off base, then please jump in and correct me. I am going on what I would do if in her shoes.
FM--no static at all.

[wolfgangqpublic]

I agree with Jake2008, but also suggest that there may be something fundamental about his personality. He just doesn't sound like the "go-getter" type who is willing to pitch in when it becomes hard or stressful or monotonous. And it sounds like he's always been like this, and you knew it. It was the "three".