[mommy_2]

I am a mother of 2 and extremely ashamed. I got caught at Loblaws the other day with my 2 yr old & 5 yr old son. I didn't mean to shoplift - I was in a rush and forgot to pay for some cosmetics. (6 items) .It was in my sons stroller who was very cranky and I didn't see it. I also got charged with Fraud for price switching on a meat ($7) which is also Under $5000. The police gave me Form 9 saying Ive not yet been charged yet , just to apper in court .
Then the other day I got a new summon (form 6) with new dates saying Theft under $5000 and Fraud under $5000 . ( They charged me twice ) I have been given dates for fingerprinting & go to court for December. I don't know what to do. I am so depressed . To make things worse my husband just lost his job ( after my incident) . Its not going good for us. We can't afford a lawyer . This is my 1st time - I have no criminal record or tkts or anything. I am so scared. The total value was less than $100. I don't know what to do . Can I ever get a job - I am in finance. I will have criminal reocrd.
We are supposed to go home in Jan/ to China. I am scared I won't get visa .
I have been reading about diversion program , can I try to get it without a lawyer . PLEASE HELP .

[Fr_Chuck]

Ok, saying you forgot will not most likely mean much to the court, since you changed the price on something else . You did not say that you did not do that.

Often diversion is for the first crime but your issue here is there are two crimes, so diversion for both is not likely.
It is hard to say about getting a job in that field

[Throwback24]

Whee are you located? I'm sure there's financial assistance programs in area, check your local court. Just ask for Legal Aid and bring in two pieces of ID, something with your place of residence on it like a rental agreement, tax papers. I'm sure Legal Aid would accept you, just bring in your Form 9's and whatever other papers you received in the mail.

[mommy_2]

I am in Ontario Canada. Please advise as I am going crazy. Will I get approved for Diversion... the total amount was less than $100. I am totally clean... no driving tkts either. First I got Form 9 with summon to court for theft under $5000 and now they changed it all to Form 6 with Theft & Fraud under $5000 . I am very stressed out . I am a stay at home mom with 2 boys and now my husband has lost his job too . We don't know what to do. Can't afford lawyer . Have to leave for China in Jan and not sure if Ill get visa as ill have a record now.
Someone please advise.

[mommy_2]

Please advise anyone... I am going crazy. Not sure what will happen now...

[bobloblaw]

Not sure how it is in canada, but you may be entitled to a court appointed attorney (thats free). If you're in finance, you probably wont get a job with a criminal record. Find a way to hire a lawyer if the court does not provide one for you - your future is at risk. They'll at least be able to get the charges reduced, if not dropped. In some states, if your felony is reduced to a misdemeanor it can be expunged (removed) after a certain period (in NJ its 2 yrs).

Also, in the mean time, consider speaking with the department stores manager and making right - tell him your situation, apologize, pay for the goods, tell him you learned your lesson and won't come back to the store and ask him to please consider dropping the charges. You'll need a good sob story here. In court this may help your case if you've tried to make things right.

[BMI]

I think you need to calm down a bit.

Firstly, the charge (if your first offence) is not one that usually carries a jail sentence with it. Depending on the circumstances of thecasean appropriate sentence is usually a conditional discharge. This sentence will not see you have a criminal record so long as you comply with the conditions set out (community service, probation, not entering the same store for a certain period of time)

It is also important to be honest during sentencing. Bring your family and apologize for the mistake you made. You can have duty counsel represent you should you not be able to afford a lawyer or look into legal aid.

Hope this helps a bit.

[mommy_2]

Yes this is my First time and I was not planning on stealing the items, that was a honest mistake with 2 kids. The tag switch was for $7 and the store got all there items back. I didn't hide any items in the pretext of stealing them.
I am so upset with myself with this whole issue - feel like my whole life is over.Plus my husband has lost his job now and its so difficult. I need to go to China for my sisters wedding in Jan and so stressed that I won't be allowed to go. I won't get Visa anymore or be allowed to travel.
The whole amount was total less than $100 . Also this is my first offence. You think I'll get a record. I am in Ontario.

[BMI]

Mommy_2,

As I have stated before it is very unlikely you will get a criminal record. Again, sentencing will be very important. If the circumstances are such that your story makes little sense and the judge feels you are lying than the sentence can be greater.

I am speaking about the law in Ontario, tell the truth, explain your situation and you will most likely receive a conditional or absolute discharge. I cannot recall when I've heard a case such as this go to trial.

[mommy_2]

Thank you BMI, I plan to tell the truth. I do don't want any other trouble with law, this is my one lesson learned.
So you think Ill get Diversion prgram and may have to pay fine or do some community hours? Is the fine going be too high?ALso what about the law suit from the store? They made me a sign something and the store got all there items back.
Will I be able to get my passport updated or get Visa r be able to go to America?
I am very scare. My fingerprinting is coming up & I read that it never goes away, so I will be in the system always and Visa/Passport/US border can always see that right.
Please advise and thanks for all your help.

[BMI]

The fine will not be astronomical in most cases, probably what they figured you took or a little more.

The store may indeed file against you but for such a small amount most stores do not bother.

As for travelling, once you havecompleted your sentence than all SHOULD be fine. Depending on the sentence, if it is what I suspect it will be, than it would notbe a conviction. You may turn up on their records but refusing you entry is unlikely.

[mommy_2]

Thanks again so much BMI>.You are making me feel a little more realistic. I have been very depressed since this happened and I am very remorseful . I never want to be involved in any lawful matter. I have never even got a speeding tkt ever - no record and now this will always be there .
So will I always be there in the system , o later on ill never get a job/or visa/passport? Is it difficult for people to travel or get jobs because of a stupid mistake like this :(!!
Since they charged me twice, will I not be able to qualify for diversion even tho' this is my first time/ I am clean - no criminal records/the whole thing was under $75 /store got all the goods.
Please advise.

[JudyKayTee]

Thanks again so much BMI>.You are making me feel a lil more realistic. I have been very depressed since this happened and i am very remorseful . I never want to be involved in any lawful matter. I have never even got a speeding tkt ever - no record and now this will always be there .
So will i always be there in the system , o later on ill never get a job/or visa/passport?? Is it difficult for ppl to travel or get jobs because of a stupid mistake like this :( !!!
Since they charged me twice, will I not be able to qualify for diversion even tho' this is my first time/ i am clean - no criminal records/the whole thing was under $75 /store got all the goods.
Please advise.

Here's something I wrote a few months ago:

"Ontario diversion program guidelines vary from region to region, courthouse to Courthouse. Eligibility for such a program is ALWAYS determined by the Crown Attorney’s office. There are no exceptions. You are not required to have legal counsel in order to apply.

If the offense - theft - is not major (property was recovered, not a large amount, not a repeat offender) the Crown Attorney MAY approve eligibility into the diversion program prior to the Curt appearance.

If there are prior dealings with the Police - and charges do not have to be placed, any prior dealings of a negative nature - the person will most likely not be eligible for the diversion program.

As part of the diversion program the eligible person will have to agree to complete certain tasks or obligations - perhaps watch a video, make a donation or volunteer time to a not-for-profit, write a paper on the crime.

When the tasks/obligations have been competed to the satisfaction of the Crown’s Attorney he/she will recommend to the Judge that the criminal charge (usually, theft) be withdrawn.

Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision. "

[free soul]

Did you get a diversion on your case? If so, what did you have to do (donation, community hours, etc.)? Also, did you receive a civil demand letter from Loblaws? How long did it take to receive the letter?

[JudyKayTee]

Did you get a diversion on your case? If so, what did you have to do (donation, community hours, etc.)? Also, did you recieve a civil demand letter from Loblaws? How long did it take to receive the letter?

OP has not been back in months. Time to close this thread.

[katyclic]

I am charged with fraud under $5000 with my ex employer and this is my first time. I did some refunds on my card and they caught me on a camera. I have got form 9 from the cop and have to go for finger printing and to the court. I am wondering if the court normally punish for first time offence.

Can you tell me what happened with you after the court? This would help. Thanks!

[AK lawyer]

... Can you tell me what happened with you after the court? This would help. Thanks!

Mommy-2 posted some 3 1/2 years ago. It is doubtful that she will ever see your question.

[JudyKayTee]

Good point - no one who didn't post the first time around will see this. I DID see the thread the first time around and so -

Not personal experience, just famiiarity with the system BUT there is a good chance you are eligible for diversion. "Rules" are different in each Province. Theft from an employer often disqualifies a person from diversion. Therefore, it's hard to say.

Are you saying you stole once, twice, more than that?