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arcura · Oct 7, 2008, 11:07 PM

Unknown008,
You ave alty some good advice.
And I join you in wishing alty loads of blessing and happiness along with my hope for peace and kindness for all here.
Fred (arcura)

Galveston1 · Oct 8, 2008, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by michealb

I know someone who died of hep C and he ate fine until he died almost 23 years after he contracted the disease.

What you describe isn't a miracle but simply events in your life. Coincidences happen that’s why they are called coincidences.

The boy WASN't eating fine. That was his problem.
You will never see a miracle, because your mind is totally closed.
There is none so blind as he who will not see. (quote someone)

Credendovidis · Oct 8, 2008, 04:28 PM

Ref. A post by Galveston1 and MichealB

Originally Posted by michealb

I know someone who died of hep C and he ate fine until he died almost 23 years after he contracted the disease. What you describe isn't a miracle but simply events in your life. Coincidences happen that’s why they are called coincidences.

Ok : a miracle than : I know someone who died several years ago. Ever since he has not eaten anymore. Still he is dead and remains dead ! The only negative of his condition is that he does not speak anymore. At the other hand he is cheap on maintenance , and you can rely on his presence : he never missed one single day being dead !

That, my friends is a miracle too. I know he is dead. You can call me a liar if you wish, but I, the man, all that knew him agree that this happened.

Ain't that a miracle?

:rolleyes:

Note : you can post any story with a personal note attached.
But that does not mean that you prove it to be a real miracle.
It is just your story, and we have to take your word for it ....

:rolleyes:

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Galveston1 · Oct 9, 2008, 03:44 PM

Yes, you have to take my word for it. So now I am a liar? Thank You!!

Credendovidis · Oct 9, 2008, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Yes, you have to take my word for it. So now I am a liar? Thank You!!!

What a ridiculous response!!

A clear hint that you realize that your original statement is nothing but hot air.

I did not state that you lied. I did not imply that you lied.

All I stated is that whatever you experienced is no PROOF for a miracle...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

.

.

arcura · Oct 9, 2008, 08:49 PM

Galveston1,
Some people will not believe a miracle under ANY circumstances.
That us those who refuse to believe anything that disproves what they already believe.
So it goes with people of many and varied sorts.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

michealb · Oct 9, 2008, 08:59 PM

We say the same thing about you.

"There people who refuse to believe anything that disproves what they already believe."

The problem is we have that pesky science, facts and statistics on our side. Sure miracles happen all the time if you ignore those 3 things.

arcura · Oct 9, 2008, 09:22 PM

michealb,
BUT...
I do not ignore those things.
I believe much about science.
I read a lot about science and am very interested in it.
That does not "interfear" with my belief in miracles.
I have seen to many miracles to ignore them.
There are many happenings that are unexplainable some of which are miracles they appear to be far beyond what science can or ever will explain.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Credendovidis · Oct 11, 2008, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

"I have seen to many miracles to ignore them"

Fred : there is no OSE for "miracles" to exist. What you hold for "miracles" are unexplained observations, either because we simply do not know what, why, or how they happened, or just - for the major part - because we never really looked into what really happened and looked for a scientific explanation.

That there have been observations for which we have not yet a proper natural explanation - for whatever reason - is no reason to declare them as miracle.
Why do so many people have a problem with just admitting that at present we simply don't know the explanation?
And why do they insist providing some "spiritual" cause to it ?

:)

.

Unknown008 · Oct 11, 2008, 03:06 AM

But Cred... there are things which do exist, but we, up to now, haven't any OSE to support them. So, giving the term miracle to something that is thought to be impossible, according to science, but which has been made possible through God's power, is plainly possible, and accepted by some people.

For example, you have somebody with an incurable disease, and that somebody was cured, not through meds but through prayers, and God's power. For many years, the scientists have looked for a possibility, but never succeeded in finding a concrete reason. How would you call that? Many people would either disbelieve you, or say that the cured person never had the disease.

In any way, the miracle happened, but all sorts of excuses arise to reject it. That's like that, you believe it or not.

michealb · Oct 11, 2008, 06:11 AM

For example, you have somebody with an incurable disease, and that somebody was cured, not through meds but through prayers, and God's power. For many years, the scientists have looked for a possibility, but never succeeded in finding a concrete reason. How would you call that? Many people would either disbelieve you, or say that the cured person never had the disease.

This one is covered under statistics. Almost every incurable disease doesn't kill everyone that gets it. Thanks to a highly varied immune system given to us by evolution. You don't list the millions of people that pray to be cured but instead you mention the one in million that happens to get better and call it a miracle. People in general are bad at statistics. So this isn't your fault. It's one of the reason why lotteries and casinos are so profitable it's because people don't understand the odds.

Galveston1 · Oct 11, 2008, 10:14 AM

In answer to the OP. Some of you would have heard Jesus pronounce woe to you because of your unbelief. Unbelievers get nothing from God, thus cutting themselves off from any possible benefits. It's a lose-lose propisiton.

michealb · Oct 11, 2008, 10:21 AM

Again Galveston only if your right. If Zeus is the all mighty your punishment for worshipping a false god might be worse than mine.

arcura · Oct 11, 2008, 04:53 PM

Credendovidis ,
I do NOT care if there is no OSE concerning miracles.
I KNOW miracles have take place.
That is good enough for me.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Credendovidis · Oct 12, 2008, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

I do NOT care if there is no OSE concerning miracles. I KNOW miracles have take place. That is good enough for me.

Dear Fred
And I accept that you really BELIEVE that...
Peace and kindness,
John

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arcura · Oct 12, 2008, 09:28 AM

Cred,
Thank you.
Fred

Galveston1 · Oct 30, 2008, 04:14 PM

The 10/26/2008 edition of [U]Todays Pentecostal Evangel[U, official publication of the Assemblies of God, USA carried a news story titled "Vanished". It is the testimony of an 11 year old girl that had a brain tumor. Published in the article are before and after MRI scans, showing that after prayer at the church, the tumor completely vanished. The church is located in Whitehouse, Texas, about a 30 minute drive from where I live.

You can find the article on line at Pentecostal Evangel index.

michealb · Oct 30, 2008, 04:34 PM

Good story but not well documented and even if we accept the story at face value it still doesn't prove anything. People who are sick sometimes get better it doesn't happen often but it does happen. These types of "miracles" happen to atheists who don't pray as well.

arcura · Oct 30, 2008, 08:04 PM

Galveston1,
Thanks for that.
Fred

Unknown008 · Oct 31, 2008, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by michealb

Good story but not well documented and even if we accept the story at face value it still doesn't prove anything. People who are sick sometimes get better it doesn't happen often but it does happen. These types of "miracles" happen to atheists who don't pray as well.

You see, even if such 'rare' happenings occur, you still argue that that doesn't prove anything. Anyway, how can you tell that such happenings can even happen in atheists? You know, an atheist has to know that some people believe in God, but they won't. So, perhaps for a moment, they'll believe too, even be healed through the power of God. However after that, they deny it themselves so that nobody, even themselves no more know who healed them.

Peace.