[michealb]

All miracles can be faked and believers are guilible because they want to believe so they look over things that would disprove them.

[arcura]

michealb.
Sorry, I do not believe that all miracles could be faked.
If the are miracles they are not fake.
A fake diamond is a fake not a diamond. The same for so-called fake miracles.
I have seen miracles and know that they were not faked for I knew the people involved.
Some years ago there was a TV program called That's Incredible.
On it there were several miracles performed that were tested by doctors and scientists to verify that they were not faked.
On particular one was absolutely amazing.
A Catholic priest, Father D'Orio, said that it was the holy spirit that caused a man born with one leg shorted than the other to grow right there on camera in front of witnesses who knew the man and scientists who examined him
There are thousands of such cases.
Whether you believe them or not the record of them stands in many places around the world.
You are probably like those mentioned in the bible that did not believe.
I do believe what I saw and knew the people involved. They were not fakes.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[Unknown008]

I already believe, but if I witnessed an actual miracle then I would be able to say that God is fact.

But, like the others, it depends on the miracle, the circumstances, and whether I witnessed it first hand.

Many of the "miracles" discussed in the bible etc., well, they can be attributed to other things, or could just have been sensationalized by the people who wrote about it.

I have never witnessed a miracle, it would have been nice to. When my parents were dying of cancer I prayed for a miracle, a relatively simply one, cure them, make the cancer disappear. No such miracle.

Me too, I passed through such things. You know about my father? Well, we prayed for him, after some time, the cancerous area remained unchanged, almost shrunk, but it was too late. The docs said that given the stage of the cancer, he would suffer a lot.

And what happened? He did not suffer the least. Patients usually need drugs to relieve their pain, but my father did not. He died in peace. And I still thank God for His miracle.

[Galveston1]

Newpaper articles from the time mention nothing of healed amputees. The only record of healing amputees is from the book. All that I have read points to a Jim Jones type cult that didn't stay together as long and spun off into other churches. No miracles just people taking advantage of guilible people.

You have done the research? Already? Forgive me, but I doubt that.

[arcura]

Unknown008,
Thanks for sharing that with us, Jerry.
I'm happy that your dad passed away in peace with no cancer pain.
Fred

[arcura]

Galveston1
As do I.
Research for proven miracles would cover a lot of areas and time (thousands of years) and take a lot of personal time for there are many thousands on record.
Just the great many proven to have taken place at Lourdes would make up volumes of information.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[michealb]

The reason there are no proven miracles is because if there were they would be a big deal everyone would know about it but we don't so there aren't. What you call miricles are either out right fraud or coincidence. I hope you all aren't giving your money to Peter Popoff hoping for miracles.

[Credendovidis]

If you saw Jesus work miracles would you believe?

No Fred, I would not. I see magicians doing magical and miracle tricks my brain tells me to be impossible in real life. Still I see them happening in front of me.
James Randi has used his entire life to expose people who carry out those tricks, and succeeded in that in almost every attempt to do so.

With all respect : one more "magician" doing tricks would not make me believe.

Have a nice day, and peace be upon you, Fred !

:)

.

[Alty]

Me too, i passed through such things. You know about my father? Well, we prayed for him, after some time, the cancerous area remained unchanged, almost shrunk, but it was too late. The docs said that given the stage of the cancer, he would suffer a lot.

And what happened? He did not suffer the least. Patients usually need drugs to relieve their pain, but my father did not. He died in peace. And I still thank God for His miracle.

Unky, I'm so glad that your dad died in peace, that's all we can hope for for those we love.

My dad died in pain and misery. He was in a coma for the last few days of his life and still screamed in agony when the nurses moved him to prevent bed sores. He still squeezed my hand when I asked if he could hear me and feel everything? He died a horrible death. It was a blessing when he finally died, no more pain, peace at last. For 5 days I screamed at God, dared him to try and take me too. I hated God more than I've ever hated anyone in my life.

I think that of all the other incidents in my life, my fathers death had the most profound effect on my faith. I still believe in God, but that's when I stopped giving Him absolute power in my life.

Good people die, children die, cancer kills wonderful people everyday. I believe in God, but not miracles, because if anyone was deserving of one, my father and mother were.

[Galveston1]

Galveston1
As do I.
Research for proven miracles would cover a lot of areas and time (thousands of years) and take a lot of personal time for there are many thousands on record.
Just the great many proven to have taken place at Lourdes would make up volumes of information.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I was only talking about the years 1909 & 1910 at the Azusa Street mission. That shouldn't take years to research. Someone really interested should be able to do it in a matter of weeks if they are any good at research and have a good computer hook up.

[arcura]

michealb,
I'll look forward to seeing any research that is done on that.
I don't have the time or inclination to do it.
Fred

[michealb]

I was only talking about the years 1909 & 1910 at the Azusa Street mission. That shouldn't take years to research. Someone really interested should be able to do it in a matter of weeks if they are any good at research and have a good computer hook up.

It doesn't take a week to read the biggest publications on it. If the local news paper doesn't say something special is going on there and there are no collaborated first hand accounts you can certain that nothing more the cult activity went on at that place.

[arcura]

michealb,
I am completely unaware of what when on there.
I've seen nothing in the news.
Fred

[michealb]

The fact that you don't know what went on there proves that nothing of importance happened. Some people are under the impression that a church on Azusa street in 1906 was a great pressence of god and that it proves the Christian religion but like so many things in the Christian religion it lacks any real evidence for anything out of the ordinary.

[arcura]

michealb,
Thanks for the information.
The omnipresent God is everywhere and everywhen so it is believed as I do.
So that is not unusual.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Galveston1]

In 1993 I was in a commune not far from Moscow where I preached for 5 nights. At the final Sun night service, a few of the church leaders and myself and my wife were having a late meal. (They fed us 5 times a day, and I lost 10 lb.) Anyway, the mayor of the village was present with her 13 yr old son. He had been diagnosed with hepatitis "C". She hoped we could get him some medication, as it was just not available there. I felt that we should pray for his healing, but first, I asked them both if they would like to become Christians. Miracle #1, they both accepted Jesus as their Lord. We then laid hands on the son and asked for a healing. We then proceeded to eat. After a short while, all the Russians became excited, and told me that this boy had eaten all his portion and asked for more.
Now if you know anything about liver disease, you know that the appetite goes away. God healed that boy that night in answer to prayer. After we got home I later asked about the boy and was told that he had indeed been healed. That, my friends is a miracle. I was there and I know. You can call me a liar if you wish, but I, the boy, his mother, and all the church there know what happened.
To God be the glory!

[Gem_22205]

I would truly like to believe that one growing in the Light of Jesus would openly testify to his works.

My mother taught me this in Sunday school when I was a child:

"Jesus disciples saw him do many other miracles besides the ones told about in this book so you would believe in him, The Messiah, The Son of God, and believing in him you will have everlasting life."

In answer to your question. I would like to believe that I poses the strength, devotion, and faith to stand and reply, "Yes".

[michealb]

I know someone who died of hep C and he ate fine until he died almost 23 years after he contracted the disease.

What you describe isn't a miracle but simply events in your life. Coincidences happen that's why they are called coincidences.

[arcura]

Galveston1,
Thanks for sharing that miracle with us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Unknown008]

My dad died in pain and misery. He was in a coma for the last few days of his life and still screamed in agony when the nurses moved him to prevent bed sores. He still squeezed my hand when I asked if he could hear me and feel everything? He died a horrible death. It was a blessing when he finally died, no more pain, peace at last. For 5 days I screamed at God, dared him to try and take me too. I hated God more than I've ever hated anyone in my life.

I think that of all the other incidents in my life, my fathers death had the most profound effect on my faith. I still believe in God, but that's when I stopped giving Him absolute power in my life.

I'm sorry to hear that Alty. :( Perhaps it was a test, or that your father didn't have enough faith. Btw, was your father a believer? Anyway, if you let the past dominate your present attitude of your present relationship, it will be as if you let the devil win a battle.

Loads of blessing and hapiness.