[Stubits]

OK, thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about repiping my home. I have been thinking about it more and more and I am left wondering if I couldn't pull this off myself using PEX. A fair amount of the house is already copper, although all the major runs are galvanized steel. I have a couple questions as I weigh the feasibility of doing this (and as I craft my defense for my wife).

1) How tough is PEX to work with, really? It seems relatively easy, but is it really?

2) It is not necessary to remove the old galvanized steel from the walls, is it? I can just abandon it in there, no?

3) Is there any concern running PEX from my basement up two floors and then into my attic? Would this impact water pressure in any noticeable way?

4) As much as I'd love a manifold system, it seems like too much work for a repipe in my case, is that OK? On the same topic, it is OK to mix and match copper and PEX, right?

5) This is probably plumbing 101, but where can I and where can't I run supply lines? Can you run the hot and cold supplies parallel with one another? Any concerns with heat transfer? For the run from the basement to the attic, we have a large, perhaps 3'x2' vertical soffit that includes some of our air conditioning/heating duct work, is there any reason I couldn't run the PEX through that area(not in the ducts themselves, but in close proximity)?

6) Cost of equipment. I know that some specialized equipment is necessary to make the various connections, could anyone guess what equipment, not materials, would cost for a typical job?

7) Is there anything I am not thinking of? I am sure there is a lot! Any suggestions, comments, warnings?

The plumbers I have found around here only want to use copper, although PEX is allowed for code purposes. My plumber, who I trust, wants $4k to repipe our house in copper, effectively 2 bathrooms and a kitchen. He is the lowest of the bids, but I think doing this myself could save me a small fortune. Are there significant risks involved, or is this fairly manageable. I am a handy guy with some decent experience, but not much plumbing experience.

Thanks!

[Milo Dolezal]

Yes, you can do it yourself. You can do anything you want. It is all just common sense together with being handy.

Now, I am not sure, whether you are going to save "....a small fortune..." . After you buy all the tools, add material, and lots of time to install it... it may cost you lot more than 4K. And then they are potential problems that will develop later due to unprofessional installation. It all adds up. I understand that people want to save as much as possible - but in this case, I would probably suggest to leave it to the professional.

(Insider's Advice: call the lowest plumber. Tell him you'll pay him $3,500.00 cash. Let him sleep on it for couple of days. He'll do the job... )

[speedball1]

1) How tough is PEX to work with, really? It seems relatively easy, but is it really?

Pex is ome of the easiest water systems to install that I know of. I highly recommend it for the average homeowner.

2) It is not necessary to remove the old galvanized steel from the walls, is it? I can just abandon it in there, no?

While you would have to disconnect the valves and faucets the mains and branches can be left intact. It is not necessary to remove them.

3) Is there any concern running PEX from my basement up two floors and then into my attic? Would this impact water pressure in any noticeable way?

While there's always a little loss due to line friction and head pressure loss
with a minimum house pressure of 45 PSI It won't be noticed.

4) As much as I'd love a manifold system, it seems like too much work for a repipe in my case, is that OK? On the same topic, it is OK to mix and match copper and PEX, right?

Yes, Pex will transition to copper.

5) This is probably plumbing 101, but where can I and where can't I run supply lines? Can you run the hot and cold supplies parallel with one another? Any concerns with heat transfer? For the run from the basement to the attic, we have a large, perhaps 3'x2' vertical soffit that includes some of our air conditioning/heating duct work, is there any reason I couldn't run the PEX through that area(not in the ducts themselves, but in close proximity)?

You may run the Pex lines parallel to each other while keeping them separate. Ther's no reason you can't run the lines in a AC chase as long as the lines do not touch the AC duct.

6) Cost of equipment. I know that some specialized equipment is necessary to make the various connections, could anyone guess what equipment, not materials, would cost for a typical job?

Cost of material will very from job to job. Perhaps one of the other experts can chime in here.

7) Is there anything I am not thinking of? I am sure there is a lot! Any suggestions, comments, warnings?

Just get yourself familiar with the installation procedure before starting the job.

80Are there significant risks involved, or is this fairly manageable. I am a handy guy with some decent experience, but not much plumbing experience.

You've worked with us before Stubby, You know there's always someone here to walk you through any rough spots and just look at the $ that you'll be saving. Good luck, Tom

[ballengerb1]

Well the guys have this one covered but I do wonder about your climate. Does your attic freeze in the winter?

[Stubits]

You guys are great. I am pretty excited to try this out.

A couple of follow-up questions as I start planning...

1) About running PEX through the AC/Heat chase, makes sense that they don't touch the duct, but they can be relatively close?

2) What about the main electrical panel in the house? How close can PEX run to that?

3)Is it necessary or helpful to insulate the pipes?

4) For me, one of the big pros of PEX is that it looks like I can just snake it through the walls, similar to electrical wire, does it need to be attached to studs with some frequency, or can I just attach once at the ceiling and then again at the floor? Thoughts?

5) Ballenger brings up a great point I hadn't considered. I don't know if my attic freezes, we just moved in. I live in Washington, DC, so the weather is relatively mild, we have a couple of below freezing days and many below freezing nights. The attic certainly isn't heated, but the rest of the house is. Also, we are in a brick, flat roofed rowhouse, if that matters at all. Can I insulate the PEX? Thoughts?

Frankly, in addition to the cost savings, I think I can do this with less damage to my house than the plumber would. He has talked a fair amount about tearing up the ceiling and the like and I think I've come up with a run that would avoid that. Also, not sure he wants to work in the attic, so that might be a part of all this.

[ballengerb1]

You do freeze but not that often. One good freeze at night could cause a problem so look into insulating the pipes or the entire attic with blanket insulation covering the pipes. By the wy, when you do finally get that one snow in DC, they don't seem to own snowplows in your area, everybody just freeks.

[Stubits]

Ballenger:

Thanks! Snow here is a funny, funny thing. We seriously don't have enough snow plows to clean up the city and of course lots of our streets are really old and narrow. I don't mind much, we just end up with a day or two off from work.

So, at present we have no insulation at all in the attic. I am planning to insulate up there while I am working on the pipes, makes sense, no? As long as I cover the pipes with insulation (just the regular batting) I should be fine?

[KISS]

Do a Google search for "working with PEX". This stood out: How to Working with PEX Piping | Video | Plumbing | This Old House

It really does make sense to manifold it because the supplies won't be 3/4" diameter. You can probably use a regular torque wrench with a crowfoot, but you'd have to re-do the calibration of the wrench. (fudge factor). It would not be off by much.

Say 20 inch-lbs at 12' and x in-lbs at 12.5". There isn't that much difference. Just using stupid numbers. Your adding the distance from the center of the square drive to the center of the wrench and since the moment is larger, the torque measured on the wrench would need to be smaller.

Not sure how to do the calc's if it were a torque screwdriver or racheting wrench.

[KISS]

Here is a reference http://www.heatinghelp.com/pdfs/71.pdf on installing Radiant Heating systems. The concepts presented are still valid. Spacing, support, manifolding, connecting etc.

And the one thing that stood out with many of the references is that there are to be no inaccessible joints and that's where the manifold comes into play. Tubing is also smaller, but the number of tubes is larger, but they are easier to work with.

[Stubits]

Thanks everyone!

So I am going to move forward on this project, I am confident that with the help of this board, I'll be able to pull this off.

As I enter the planning stages, I have a couple of big questions...

1) What size PEX will I use? I am think 1" from the main, 3/4" branches and then 1/2" to the fixtures? Does that make sense?

2) What is the best and most trusted/secure way to make the connections? Crimping? Compression?

3) I do not know how to sweat copper joints, but I will be connecting to copper in a number of places. What is the best way to connect PEX to copper without soldering? Most of these connections will be behind the walls.

4) Just a little nervous about running the PEX in the attic. I live in Washington, DC where it gets cold in the winter. The attic is of course unheated. Is it sufficient to insulate the pex with foam insulation? Currently the attic is uninsulated entirely, but I will be insulating it with fiberglass batting, would I want the pipes to run between two layers in the insulation? Under all the insulation? Above the insulation?

Thanks!

[Stubits]

Thanks everyone!

So I am going to move forward on this project, I am confident that with the help of this board, I'll be able to pull this off.

As I enter the planning stages, I have a couple of big questions...

1) What size PEX will I use? I am think 1" from the main, 3/4" branches and then 1/2" to the fixtures? Does that make sense?

2) What is the best and most trusted/secure way to make the connections? Crimping? Compression?

3) I do not know how to sweat copper joints, but I will be connecting to copper in a number of places. What is the best way to connect PEX to copper without soldering? Most of these connections will be behind the walls.

4) Just a little nervous about running the PEX in the attic. I live in Washington, DC where it gets cold in the winter. The attic is of course unheated. Is it sufficient to insulate the pex with foam insulation? Currently the attic is uninsulated entirely, but I will be insulating it with fiberglass batting, would I want the pipes to run between two layers in the insulation? Under all the insulation? Above the insulation?

Thanks!

[gaknichols]

Good luck Stubits. I commend you! We're going to suck it up and pay the $3500 to have it done... went through our homeowners insurance. Hopefully they pay most of it. We are however, demo-ing the bathroom drywall/tile and re-doing it ourself. The joy of having an older home. :) Let me know how your project turns out. KN

[moparmob]

Good references folks, here's another: go to "www.sharkbiteplumbing.com", where you can find a series of videos that are very informative regarding how to install their press on fittings for PEX, copper or CPVC in any combination. (I love videos)

[speedball1]

Good advice moparmob, Too bad it's 4 years to late. Gaknichols responded to a 2 year old threads and you responded to the same thread after it was 4 years old. Please check the date before you post. However, it really was good advice. Fell free to answer questions we need all the help we can get, Regards, Tom