[arcura]

(NJB) Matthew 16: 24. Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone wants to be a follower of mine, let him renounce himself and take up his cross and follow me.
25. Anyone who wants to save his life will lose it; but anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.
26. What, then, will anyone gain by winning the whole world and forfeiting his life? Or what can anyone offer in exchange for his life?

27. `For the Son of man is going to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will reward each one according to his behaviour.
28. In truth I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming with his kingdom."
Questions: Who has not died yet?
OR...
Who saw what Jesus mentions before they died?
What do you make of these verses and what they say?
Peace and kindness,
Fred (acrura)

[Wondergirl]

Jesus was foretelling his resurrection and his ascension into heaven. The disciples would be the witnesses of both of these events.

Note that Jesus said "reward according to his behavior?" not "salvation according to his behavior."

[arcura]

Wondergirl,
Yes O did notice that.
I'm happy that you did also.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Wondergirl]

Wondergirl,
Yes O did notice that.
I'm happy that you did also.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

The Bible speaks of "many mansions." I plan to be in the one with the cats and the horses--and the library.

[arcura]

Wondergirl,
I hope and pray that I will see you there.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Wondergirl]

Wondergirl,
I hope and pray that I will see you there.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Will you help me groom the animals and play with them?

[Credendovidis]

Dear Fred

"Each one will be rewarded according to his behavior."
That is what you BELIEVE ! But is it "true" ?

And suppose that your god really exists, and that you will be rewarded, will that be accordingly to your behavior or to what you did NOT do ? For instance living in a capitalistic society over the heads of the poor , exhausting and misusing nature's treasures only for your own excessive needs instead of helping those who require your help most (i.e. those in the third world?) As far as I recall : Jesus was not a capitalist, but more a kind of socialist ! He SHARED instead of setting up francises...

In assessing a life "(good) behavior" should not be the templet. What you failed to do should be that.

:rolleyes:

·

[Unknown008]

Oh Cred, you go with that again? As you said, it is his belief, does it not imply that he believes that this is the truth? Don't you expect him to reply that he believes that for him, this is the truth?

[Credendovidis]

Oh Cred, you go with that again? As you said, it is his belief, does it not imply that he believes that this is the truth? Don't you expect him to reply that he believes that for him, this is the truth?

Yes. I "go" that again and again and again. The point is that whatever you BELIEVE does not mean it is factual.
If you post such topics on the Christianity board you have a point. Here however I have good and valid reasons to question such statements !

:rolleyes:

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[Unknown008]

Which ones? (just curious, maybe you already said it somewhere but I didn't read through all your posts.:rolleyes: )

[Credendovidis]

Which ones? just curious, maybe you already said it somewhere but i didn't read through all your posts.:rolleyes:

Anything that suggests to be factual. "Each one will be rewarded according to his behavior" is a claim that suggests to be factual. But is it factual, or just what one BELIEVES ?

:rolleyes:

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[Unknown008]

It is a fact for a believer, yes. Lol :p

[Credendovidis]

It is a fact for a believer, yes. lol :p

That would be a valid point if Fred would only be talking/posting to himself...
This is NOT a subdirectory to the christianity board, where Fred's post would not be queried !

:D

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[NeedKarma]

"Each one will be rewarded according to his behavior."

That sounds like the concept of karma. It could also relate to the golden rule or the ethic of reciprocity which transcends religion.These are guidelines by which I live my life and this is what I teach my children. I guess I'm my own form of god. :)

[Credendovidis]

"Each one will be rewarded according to his behavior."
That sounds like the concept of karma. It could also relate to the golden rule or the ethic of reciprocity which transcends religion.These are guidelines by which I live my life and this is what I teach my children. I guess I'm my own form of god. :)

I doubt that the topic name is correct. As per my post #7 :

... suppose that really exists, and that you will be rewarded, will that be accordingly to your behavior or to what you did NOT do ? For instance living in a capitalistic society over the heads of the poor , exhausting and misusing nature's treasures only for your own excessive needs instead of helping those who require your help most (i.e. those in the third world?) As far as I recall : Jesus was not a capitalist, but more a kind of socialist ! He SHARED instead of setting up francises ....
In assessing a life "(good) behavior" should not be the templet. What you failed to do should be that.

Before making it a "Golden Rule" : can we please first decide if it is "Golden Rule" material ?

:rolleyes:

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[Choux]

HI Fred,

This is a metaphor... it is similar to the born again references in the New Testament.

Your life is your spirit... you have to give up your negative qualities(let them die) and be born again into a whole new positive way of existence in the spirit of Christ!

Your quote: "anyone who loses his life FOR MY SAKE will find it! :)

[ScottRC]

What do you make of these verses and what they say?

From the "Golden Chain":

Chrys.: Because He had said, Whoso will save, shall lose, and whoso will lose shall save, opposing saving to losing, that none should hence conclude that there was any equality between the losing on one side, and the saving on the other, He adds, "What does it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, but suffer the loss of his soul?" As though He had said, Say not that he who escapes the dangers which threaten him for Christ's sake, saves his soul, that is, his temporal life; but add to his temporal life the whole world, and what of all these things will profit a man if his soul perishes for ever?
Suppose you should see all your servants in joy, and yourself placed in the greatest evils, what profit would you reap from being their master! Think over this within your own soul, when by the indulgence of the flesh that soul looks for its own destruction.
Origen: I suppose also that he gains the world who does not deny himself, nor loses his own life as to carnal pleasures, and thence suffers the loss of his soul. These two things being set before us, we must rather choose to lose the world, and gain our souls.
Chrys.: But if you should reign over the whole world, you would not be able to buy your soul; whence it follows, "Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" As much as to say, if you lose goods, you may have it in your power to give other goods to recover them; but if you lose your soul, you can neither give another soul, nor any thing else in ransom for it. And what marvel is it if this happen in the soul, when we see the same happen in the body; for if you should surround a body afflicted with an incurable disease with ten thousand diadems, they would not heal it.
Origen: And at first sight indeed the ransom of the soul might he supposed to be in his substance, that a man should give his substance to the poor, and so should save his soul. But I suppose that a man has nothing that giving as a ransom for his soul he should deliver it from death. God gave the ransom for the souls of men, namely the precious blood of His Son.
Origen: Morally; To those who are nearly brought to the faith, the Word of God wears the form of a servant; but to those that are perfect, He comes in the glory of the Father. His angels are the words of the Prophets, which it is not possible to comprehend spiritually, until the word of Christ has been first spiritually comprehended, and then will their words be seen in like majesty with His. Then will He give of His own glory to every man according to his deeds; for the better each man is in his deeds, so much the more spiritually does he understand Christ and His Prophets. They that stand where Jesus stands, are they that have the foundations of their souls rested upon Jesus; of whom such as stood firmest are said not to taste death till they see the Word of God; which comes in His kingdom when they see that excellence of God which they cannot see while they are involved in divers sins, which is to taste death, forasmuch as the soul that sinneth, dies.
For as life, and the living bread, is He that came down from heaven, so His enemy death is the bread of death. And of these breads there are some that eat but a little, just tasting them, while some eat more abundantly. They that sin neither often, nor greatly, these only taste death; they that have partaken more perfectly of spiritual virtue do not taste it only, but feed ever on the living bread. That He says, "Until they see," does not fix any time at which shall be done what had not been done before, but mentions just what is necessary; for he that once sees Him in His glory, shall after that by no means taste death. (Golden Chain MT-MK 4626)

Jerome and Gregory also have great comments about these verses.

Peace be with you.

[Credendovidis]

... Your life is your spirit....you have to give up your negative qualities(let them die) and be born again into a whole new positive way of existence in the spirit of Christ!

Like I stated before : negative qualities are much more important in this respect. It is less what you did, and more what you did not, that is important !

:rolleyes:

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[arcura]

Cred,
As I said, I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe.
I need no PROOF that you believe what you believe for I see it posted here.
So don't bother to ask me for proof about what I believe because you will not get it.
Example, I believe that God exists. I have all the proof I need for ME to believe that. It is a personal thing.
The proof that I have for me is for me.
It very likely would not mean much of anything for you.
For me to provide it would take a very lengthy post of several pages.
Since it would not effect or affect what you believe I would be wasting my time and yours to provide it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Credendovidis]

I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe.

Of course Fred, of course! We should all be free to believe whatever suits us.

I need no PROOF that you believe what you believe for I see it posted here.

I neither need proof for what you believe, Fred. I know and respect what you believe.

So don't bother to ask me for proof about what I believe ...

If you state : I believe that.. and follow up that with whatever you believe, I am fine with that, my friend. And you know that.

Example, I believe that God exists.

Fine with me. You may believe what ever you prefer.
But if you state "God exists" without "I believe that ..." you state a claim, an unsupported claim, which I may question if it is true. On that moment it is no longer what you believe, but what you claim.

Peace and kindness to you too,

John

:)