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coldinkentucky · Apr 30, 2008, 08:13 PM

I purchased this house from my ex husband whom originally bought the house before we were married. He never signed any type of lease agreement nor was it stated in the homeowners that the tank was leased. The house was purchased new so my ex dealt with the builder exclusively who used the home as a spec home for an up and coming neighborhood. Therefore he need the house to have working utilities prior to being sold. After purchasing the house I received a letter telling me that I had to sign a lease agreement, I informed them that I was always under the impression that the propane tank was owned by the homeowner and not leased and requested proof of ownership and a call back the propane companies owner (family owned business). I never got a call nor any type of proof showing that they owned the tank. Then last fall when I went to turn on my heat it did not work, because the regulator was missing. I called another company who came out and put on a new regulator(which I bought) and filled the tank. Then on 04/30/08 I watched from my window an employee from the original gas company remove my regulator , put it in his truck and leave. After consulting with an attorney I called the propane company and told them that they had 2 hours to put back my regulator. When I came home from work, the regulator was sitting on the back door, and I could smell propane leaking from the tank. I have no heat tonight and I am losing propane from the tank.
Since no lease agreement was signed by either homeowner, nor were they made aware regarding one way or another when the house was purchased the tank must be owned by the homeowner. I realize there may have been some type of verbal agreement between the builder and the owner of the propane company saying that he would lease the tank until the house was sold so that the utilities would work. But it appears that should have been resolved between the builder and gas company not the property owners.

Who do you think owns this tank?

twinkiedooter · May 1, 2008, 05:06 AM

First, you need to do something to contain the leaking propane as your tank and home could explode. Am surprised that the other company did not properly shut off the tank. Usually the tank is owned by the propane company and they are required to maintain the regulator and tank. Surprised that another propane company would put their regulator on the tank. The first company needs to give you some kind of paperwork on tank ownership or supply you with some kind of contract they previously had at that location. If the tank belongs to the first company and they can prove it then you must decide to either keep their tank and enter into a contract for propane delivery or get your own tank (they are not cheap) and contract with another propane company for propane delivery. Propane is usually delivered only in the winter months and then topped of in the summer but the propane company will put you on some kind of budget billing so the propane charges are spread out evenly over the year otherwise you could end up with a $700 a month bill during the winter.

Suggest you contact several propane companies and see what kind of services they offer. If the previous homeowners cannot prove that they purchased the tank and actually owned the tank, then more than likely they did not purchase the tank.

In the meantime GET THE LEAK FIXED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE as this is a VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION.

JudyKayTee · May 1, 2008, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by coldinkentucky

I purchased this house from my ex husband whom originally bought the house before we were married. He never signed any type of lease agreement nor was it stated in the homeowners that the tank was leased. The house was purchased new so my ex dealt with the builder exclusively who used the home as a spec home for an up and coming neighborhood. Therefore he need the house to have working utilities prior to being sold. After purchasing the house I received a letter telling me that I had to sign a lease agreement, I informed them that I was always under the impression that the propane tank was owned by the homeowner and not leased and requested proof of ownership and a call back the the propane companies owner (family owned business). I never got a call nor any type of proof showing that they owned the tank. Then last fall when I went to turn on my heat it did not work, because the regulator was missing. I called another company who came out and put on a new regulator(which I bought) and filled the tank. Then on 04/30/08 I watched from my window an employee from the original gas company remove my regulator , put it in his truck and leave. After consulting with an attorney I called the propane company and told them that they had 2 hours to put back my regulator. When I came home from work, the regulator was sitting on the back door, and I could smell propane leaking from the tank. I have no heat tonight and I am loosing propane from the tank.
Since no lease agreement was signed by either homeowner, nor were they made aware regarding one way or another when the house was purchased the tank must be owned by the homeowner. I realize there may have been some type of verbal agreement between the builder and the owner of the propane company saying that he would lease the tank until the house was sold so that the utilities would work. But it appears that should have been resolved between the builder and gas company not the property owners.

Who do you think owns this tank?

Is it covered somehow in the Deed or on the Title Search?

In the meantime I don't think I'd sit in a house next to a leaking propane tank and wonder who actually owns the tank.

Call the Attorney back and get him/her on the case. In the meantime, fix the leak because if anyone is injured and you have already acknowledged you know the tank is leaking you could have some very serious legal problems.

KISS · May 1, 2008, 07:15 AM

Propane is heavier than air, so it will tend to hang around close to the ground. Be careful with any sources of ignition.

excon · May 1, 2008, 07:36 AM

Hello Cold:

I'm not sure if the gas company didn't commit a criminal offense by leaving a tank in a "ready to explode" condition. Certainly, they're guilty of criminal mischief for leaving your valve open. I don't know who owns it, but I know whose messing with it. I'd call the cops.

excon

Handyman2007 · May 1, 2008, 10:03 AM

The company that originally installed the tank owns it. Because you had another compnay put a regulator on it, the original owner felt that the their tank was being used without the benefit of using their gas in it. If they removed the regulator(owned by the new company) that was criminal. Instead of writing letters to the original company, go there and speak with them. They want you to buy propane from them. You, of course, can get another company to install a new tank, and the old tank can be moved so the new tank can be installed. Call the old company and ask them to remove their tank. Also send them a certified letter, return receipt, stating that you want the tank removed. I would just get another gas supplier, get a new tank and have the original co take their tank back,, BUT you should receive credit for ant propane that you purchased that is in that tank.

Handyman2007 · May 1, 2008, 10:11 AM

The company that originally installed the tank owns it. Because you had another compnay put a regulator on it, the original owner felt that the their tank was being used without the benefit of using their gas in it. If they removed the regulator(owned by the new company) that was criminal. Instead of writing letters to the original company, go there and speak with them. They want you to buy propane from them. You, of course, can get another company to install a new tank, and the old tank can be moved so the new tank can be installed. Call the old company and ask them to remove their tank. Also send them a certified letter, return receipt, stating that you want the tank removed. I would just get another gas supplier, get a new tank and have the original co take their tank back,, BUT you should receive credit for ant propane that you purchased that is in that tank.

coldinkentucky · May 1, 2008, 07:58 PM

In Kentucky most propane companies install tanks for builders and then are paid by the builder for their services once the house is sold. So the fact that the company who installed it owns it is not valid, since only propane companies can install propane tanks. Since this propane company has not been able to provide any type of ownership makes me think the builder and the propane owner had a verbal agreement that this would occur and the builder never paid the propane company the money for the tank and installation. I do not know this, however after talking to various other propane companies this is what they tell me. Since the house was sold with the tank attached (underground) to the home with the original intent to be an attached fixture to the house, then according to other propane companies the homeowner owns the tank and not the propane company.

Fr_Chuck · May 1, 2008, 08:22 PM

Normally in all places I have lived the larger propane tanks are not owned but leased or supplied by the gas company. If and when you change companies they change the tanks, and/or the one company buys the tank from the other company. So it is common practice where I was at that tanks are not owned by individuals. And in that the gas company is also liable for their maintenance.

What happened years ago, people did agreements with a handshake and there was no paper work done since all county people just knew the gas company owned the tank, This has slowly changed and is being handled by paper work on the gas purchase agreements, and/or formal rental agreements on tanks.

So my opinon, morally most likely the gas company owns it.
Now legally, was it listed on any of the paperwork on either of the last two sales, either in the listing or in the actual contract.
Next if they can not prove that they own it, most likely from a legal stand point you own it since they can not prove their legal ownership.

Now as for as for as taking off the regulator, even the first time may be illegal even if they own it unless they made arrangements to pay for the gas in there and give you proper notice they were disconnecting your gas.

And most likely the second one was illegal, since another company took over the tank and they knew it was not their regulator, had they drained the tank, paid you for the gas, and took their tank and left your regulator, that while most likely illegal is not the same as taking a part they knew was not there's.

And the right to enter your property to service and check "their" tank is a normal agreement, so their entering your property was based on their belief that they own the tank.

So your issue is, do you want to look into the moral side of it, call 5 to 10 older people you know use gas and see what they do, if they own their tank or not. Call several other companies and ask if they sell the tank or not If you find that is is normal to own your tank, OK most likely you do, if you find it is normal that tanks are rented, you can assume yours most likely is rented.

So my gut ( and that is all it is) since they are so angry about your claiming to own the tank, that they really do believe they own it, and if they always rent, not sell, that would make sense.