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Let it Ride · Mar 22, 2008, 02:38 PM

I have a State Select water heater. It is about 5 years old. We replaced it 3 years ago with an electric tank and now have decided, I like the propane one better. So we reinstalled the propane water heater.
The problem is, the burner will not stay lit. The pilot light is easy to light and ignites the burner, but the burner will only burn for a few minutes and then goes out, which in turn blows out the pilot light.
We put in a new thermocoupler, but are having the same problems.
It is on a direct vent system, so no draft hood/diverter at the top of the tank and there is a cold draft felt blowing out of the bottom on the heater. I was suspecting that may be the problem, however the draft is not strong enough to blow out the pilot light, when only the pilot is burning.
It is a 40 gallon tank hooked up to a 100 lb tank with a new regulator installed on the outside wall. No other appliances.
When the burner is lit, you can hear fluctuations in it burning.
Is is possible the burner is plugged? Or perhaps incorrect venting? And how important is it to close the door? Will that extinguish the burner?

ballengerb1 · Mar 22, 2008, 02:40 PM

The doors must be closed to aviod draft issues, there is usually two of them.

speedball1 · Mar 22, 2008, 03:03 PM

Let me paste up a article I found on the web that you may find of interest.
Troubleshooting Gas Water Heaters
Knowing how to light the pilot is one key to living with a gas water heater; see the instructions on the tank. For safety, a gas heater has a thermocouple. This is thermoelectric device that impinges on the pilot flame and shuts off the gas if the pilot light goes out. The gas flame should be blue. If it's orange, adjust the shutter; if it's still orange, call for service.
Twice a year, inspect the flue assembly to be sure it's properly aligned and all its joints are sealed. Then check the flue by placing your hand near the draft diverter (with the burner on); air flowing out indicates an obstruction that should be removed. Every year or two, shut off the gas, remove the access panel, and clean the burner ports, using stiff wire or a needle. If you ever smell gas, get out of the house immediately and call the gas company.
There is no hot water.<<
Check for:
Unlit pilot light.
Pilot light won't keep burning.<<
Clogged burner
Defective thermocouple.
The gas is not coming out.<<
Remedies:
Carefully relight the pilot.
Make sure the gas controls are completely turned on. Then check the thermocouple and be sure it is firmly connected to the gas control unit and positioned near the pilot flame.
Call a qualified contractor.
Replace the thermocouple.
Call the Gas Company.
There isn't enough hot water.<<
Check for:
Incorrectly set thermostat.
Defective thermostat.
Exposed hot water pipes
Too small of a water tank
Clogged burner.
Sediment has formed in the tank.
Leaking hot water faucets.
Remedies:
Turn the thermostat higher.
Call a qualified contractor.
Insulate the hot water pipes.
Install a larger water tank.
Call a qualified contractor.
Turn off the gas and drain the tank.
Repair or replace the faucets.
The water heater is very noisy.<<
Check for:
Scale and sediments in the tank.
Remedy:
Turn off the gas and flush the tank.
The water is too hot.<<
Check for:
Wrong setting on thermostat.
Defective thermostat.
Blocked exhaust vent.
Remedies:
Reset the thermostat.
Call a qualified contractor.
Check the vent and clear it.
Water is leaking from the heater.<<
Check for:
Leak in the draincock.
Leaking safety valve.
Hole in the tank.
Leak in the plumbing connection.
Remedies:
Close it tightly or replace it.
Check the water temperature. If it's too hot, the thermostat may be broken. If the safety valve is defective, replace it.
Buy a new water heater.
Call a plumber. <<< Before you call a plumber flush,(not drain) your heater. Good luck, TOM

ballengerb1 · Mar 22, 2008, 03:08 PM

All I could add is be sure the teflon tape is yellow.

Let it Ride · Mar 22, 2008, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by ballengerb1

All I could add is be sure the teflon tape is yellow.

Wow, thanks for the quick responses. :D
I just tried screwing the doors back on, with the same results, the burner lights, burns for a minute and then goes out.
All the connections from the heater out to the propane tank are new.
So I don't think it is the draft from the doors.
The only other thing I haven't done is clean the burner. Which I am going to go try now.
If one of the connections is not sealed properly to the propane tank, will that cause the burner to go out?
I can't see the draft doing, it, as the pilot is still burning... :confused:
I will check the teflon tape... may be white.

speedball1 · Mar 23, 2008, 12:40 PM

Teflon tape wouldn't shut the burner down. I'm thinking, trash in the orifice..
It wouldn't take a very large piece of anything for the gas pressure to float it down to the orifice where it would block the aperture. Once the safety shut the gas off the crud would fall down leaving the aperture open so the burner would light up until the orifice gets blocked once more. That's about all I can come up with. Hope it helps. Tom.

Let it Ride · Mar 23, 2008, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

Teflon tape wouldn't shut the burner down. I'm thinkin, trash in the orifice....
Tom.

I actually got the heater to burn for a while overnight and didn't go out until this morning. I was thinking it may be a venting problem. But the pilot light will remain lit as long as the burner is not going. So if a draft is strong enough to blow out the burner, it does not make sense that the pilot stays lit.
It does burn oddly. It burns for a while with a nice clean blue flame with orange tips, but then it sounds like it is burning hard (or the way a propane stove sounds with wind blowing on it) At this point the flames flare up and are mixed with larger orange flames, then it may burn normal again for a bit, eventually it just goes out. I watched about 3/4 of the burner go out, the remaining flames were weak and flickering, then woof, they all started up again...
Could it be the control valve on the front of the heater? Just a dirty burner? It was sitting for about 3 years in outdoor storage. Thanks for your time. Lorelei

hkstroud · Mar 23, 2008, 06:12 PM

I don't know anything about this, but would like to ask if the new regulator installed on the tank could be defective?

Let it Ride · Mar 23, 2008, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

I don't know anything about this, but would like to ask if the new regulator installed on the tank could be defective?

I wondered that myself. But thought because it was new, it should be fine. I wondered about the vent on the regulator...

It would be nice to pin point the problem without having to change everything, I have considered trying another regulator that I know works fine.
I am leaning towards the control valve, but do those valves usually need replacement? I am going to try cleaning the burner see what happens with that.
I'll let you know how it goes. I am completely frustrated at this point. If it wasn't Easter Holidays, I would have called a tech by now.

hkstroud · Mar 23, 2008, 06:51 PM

Well, if I had another valve I could use, I would certianly try that. Gas valves are amazingly reliable but... As you said a new valve should be fine. I recently put new spark plugs in my truck. After two weeks I had a cylinder that quit firing. After doing all of the things you are supposed to do I started changing out plugs. Had a plug that was defective. Never heard of that before. Not cracked, not borken, just quit after two weeks.

speedball1 · Mar 24, 2008, 06:17 AM

ONE MORE TIME!

I'm thinking, trash in the orifice..
It wouldn't take a very large piece of anything for the gas pressure to float it down to the orifice where it would block the aperture. Once the safety shut the gas off the crud would fall down leaving the aperture open so the burner would light up until the orifice gets blocked once more.

Have you pulled the orfice checked for any trash and flushed the gas line?: Regards, Tom

Let it Ride · Mar 24, 2008, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

ONE MORE TIME!!

Hi Tom, :o I haven't done that as of yet. Just picked up the teflon for reconnecting the lines after I remove the burner. Most likely it is junk, burner is dirty with a little bit of corrosion. Was going to do it last night, after work, but it actually kept burning all night until this morning, so I took the liberty of showering & washing clothes. Will let you know how it turns out after the cleaning.
Thank you. Lorelei

Let it Ride · Mar 25, 2008, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

ONE MORE TIME!!
Have you pulled the orfice checked for any trash and flushed the gas line?: Regards, Tom

Ok. Pulled the orfice cleaned out any trash. Line is clean as a whistle now. There was a small pile of rust flakes that came out of the tube and a large bunch on, in & around the burner. Hooked her back up... with lots of hope... and I ended up with same results. :mad:

ballengerb1 · Mar 25, 2008, 07:33 AM

When you hold the orifice up to the light can you see a perfect hole through the orifice?

Let it Ride · Mar 25, 2008, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by ballengerb1

When you hold the orifice up to the light can you see a perfect hole through the orifice?

Yes. The orfice hole is clean.
I went to the hardware store and spent $50 on new venting. Just installed that, and I lit the burner. It went out once, relit it... now it has been burning nicely for about 30 minutes. No woofing, or puffing... So I have my fingers crossed and am holding my breath...
Thinking... might have been the venting, it was deteriorated. So maybe the heater was starving for oxygen and choking itself out... Will let you know how it goes...
:)