[liar2]

But he said he never told anyone but her... n its so many years after.. and all of a sudden the police on his case... he would know it was her that talked. He could then do the same to her .

I wish I never knew. This is very sticky. If that story is indeed true... How can that be solved? I don't think am willing to take that risk... Its too scary.

But am sad because I hardly ever speak to my cousin again... n we were so close. I feel so uncomfortable knowing what I know and not able to do anything about it.


I just hope nothing happen , because I would blame myself...

[starbuck8]

Well, think of it this way, girl. Do you want to continue knowing something that you have heard (a 2nd hand confession) and live with the what if's? You could be considered an acomplice also. Maybe not, but do you want it on your conscience if there is a family that has never been able to find out who killed their son?

If you tell the person you talk to at crime stoppers, or whomever it might be, that you are afraid it might endanger you and your cousin, I'm sure something this serious in nature could be done so the two of you would be safe. Try calling " 1-800 Crime TV" That's the # to AMW. Maybe they could give you some info on how to handle this.

Although, I do know what you mean, and if it's not handled by the right people, it could easily get out of control. There must be someone you can talk to anonymously, without giving up any names in the beginning. Just lay out the scenario, ask for advice and express your concerns.

I am not a huge fan of how the justice system works myself, but do you really want to have this hanging over your head if you could've done something about it?

Just my thoughts and opinion... a very sticky situation!

[bellababy60]

Just want you to know... everyone knows someone... who knows someone... who knows someone... it's the domino effect. Could always come back on you in a bad way if you don't address it. Personally, having second hand knowledge of a "crime" without having evidence is called "guilt by association"... I'm not a lawyer but hey, that's just street smarts. I would not associate with anyone who had this type of knowledge and you should make an ANONYMOUS CALL to someone and get some kind of help before you find yourself in the justice system defending yourself against something you didn't ask for. Better look out for yourself right now...

[liar2]

I guess you are right, but what I was worried about to, is if this guy is making this up, what would happen if I get him in trouble? And I live in the caribbean, and we don't have much protection here. If he really did that and got away with it he have to be real good at covering things up.

Its one thing to do the right thing, but its another to live in fear for the rest of your life if he find out I said anything. I only have hear say. What evidence do I have? The police here may not even go back to investigate something so far back. If they never got any evidence in the first place then it would just be my word against his own.

I don't know too much about how our system works here... but I know its not highly rated.

[starbuck8]

Well, I didn't know where you were from, and yes I don't know anything about your justice system either.

That is why I suggested calling 1-800-crime TV. (just follow the #'s on the key pad on your phone) That's the # for America's Most Wanted. (AMW) They investigate crimes in other countries also, and can give you advice on how to go about doing something without putting yourself in a situation that would put you in harms way.

I don't blame you for being scared to tell the authorities, but if you can talk to someone that has maybe had to deal with a situation like this before, while remaining anonymous you might be able to get some advice on how to protect yourself and your cousin from this potential killer.

[KalFour]

Wow... no one else wants to consider the other point of view, so I guess I will.

Your cousin isn't necessarily being stupid. She's giving him a chance. Do you think everyone who commits a crime deserves to be shunned by society forevermore? He's probably been bottling it up this entire time and needed to let her be aware of it because he felt guilty. Him confessing this isn't necessarily a sign of intent to re-commit murder, or to intimidate anyone, it might actually be remorse, or even a cry for help.

If he shot a guy for sleeping with his girlfriend, it wasn't necessarily premeditated. He might have run into the guy, they exchanged words, he got angry and the other guy got shot. Still not a nice scenario I grant you, but he didn't necessarily track down the guy with the intent of getting revenge. It's only legally considered premeditated if he had the intent to commit murder.

He might have plotted the murder, but he might not have. Try not to be too judgmental unless you know the facts.

I mean, fair's fair, be cautious, but give him a chance to redeem himself.

I don't agree with him getting away with murder either, but I can see why he hasn't told anyone before now. If he doesn't seem like a dangerous, manipulative or temperamental guy in other ways, I wouldn't be too worried about your cousin remaining with him. It's her choice.

You can go to the authorities if you like, but I don't know how much good it'll do you. You'll lose your cousin's trust for one thing. And if there's no record that's fits the file based on the very small amount of information you have, I doubt you'll find the unsolved case.

Would you go to the police for your own safety? For hers? For the family of the man who died? Because you believe that crime deserves punishment? That a murderer is inherently evil? That he needs to be off the street and away from society?
By turning him in, you might not be making everyone safer and happier. You might just be destroying the life of a man who is sorry for a mistake he made a long time ago. And destroying the life of your cousin, who has found it in herself to forgive him.

I don't necessarily agree with everything I write by the way. I'd just like you to consider both sides of the story.

Kal

[liar2]

WOW, Kalfour... hmm never taut of it like that though... But Don't you think someone who can commit a crime is capable of doing it again? And because they know they got away with it the first time would think they would again?

But u have a point... Everyone is capable of murdering another , some by accident, some premeditated. But... How the hell would anyone know if he is genuinely sorry for his actions or if he isn't pycho?

Is it a risk that someone should take? But between that time he had relationships and had 3 or something kids... So maybe he change... or maybe not. But the taut still scares me.

[starbuck8]

Your cousin isn't necessarily being stupid. She's giving him a chance. Do you think everyone who commits a crime deserves to be shunned by society forevermore? He's probably been bottling it up this entire time and needed to let her be aware of it because he felt guilty. Him confessing this isn't necessarily a sign of intent to re-commit murder, or to intimidate anyone, it might actually be remorse, or even a cry for help.



Try not to be too judgmental unless you know the facts.

I mean, fair's fair, be cautious, but give him a chance to redeem himself.

If he doesn't seem like a dangerous, manipulative or temperamental guy in other ways, I wouldn't be too worried about your cousin remaining with him. It's her choice.

You can go to the authorities if you like, but I don't know how much good it'll do you. You'll lose your cousin's trust for one thing. And if there's no record that's fits the file based on the very small amount of information you have, I doubt you'll find the unsolved case.

Would you go to the police for your own safety? For hers? For the family of the man who died? Because you believe that crime deserves punishment? That a murderer is inherently evil? That he needs to be off the street and away from society?
By turning him in, you might not be making everyone safer and happier. You might just be destroying the life of a man who is sorry for a mistake he made a long time ago. And destroying the life of your cousin, who has found it in herself to forgive him.



Kal

This man, and let us assume he did commit this crime, deserves to be punished. Should he be shunned by society forever?. well maybe not, but that is why we have courts and a jury of ones' peers to decide what the punishment will be.

Does he deserve a chance to redeem himself?. sure, when he turns himself in. So big deal!. he confessed to his girlfriend. Does that give the guy a get out of jail free card? Does that cleanse him of his sins just because after all of this time he told someone?. no doubt in a selfish act to make himself feel better.

Does he sound like a dangerous, manipulative, temperamental man? YES! Even if he is lying. Does a stable man go around telling someone he has murdered a man. There can only be two reasons for this really. Either he murdered this man in cold blood, or he has a manipulative reason for telling such a lie. In either case that makes him dangerous.

As far as her destroying the life of a man that made a MISTAKE?? Murder is NOT a mistake in this instance. It is a CRIME! The man needs to be punished. If people could just go around murdering other people and then just say... we'll I'm sorry, and gee it was yrs ago anyway!. well how many murderers do you think would be out there running free. There are enough of them now as it is. I'm sure the murdered boys family wouldn't accept a simple apology now would they?! Would you if it was your son or family member?

There are not two sides to this story. Murderer or mentally unstable are the only two options I see here. And cold case files just don't go away because a killer has yet to be found.

[KalFour]

Liar,
Most people are capable of committing a crime in a fit of passion. And statistically, the rate of repeat offending (with crimes like murder at least) is quite low. Some people do repeat the crime over and over, but most don't. This man might be capable of re-offending, but there's a pretty good chance that he won't.

Starbuck,
By turning himself in, would he really be proving anything? He's being selfishly afraid to do so, and it's perfectly understandable. That doesn't make it right, but what do you expect him to do?
It might be great if he gives himself up... but would you?

"Does he sound like a dangerous, manipulative, tempermental man? YES! Even if he is lying. Does a stable man go around telling someone he has murdered a man. There can only be two reasons for this really. Either he murdered this man in cold blood, or he has a manipulative reason for telling such a lie. In either case that makes him dangerous."

- Again "in cold blood" assumes a deliberate and premeditated attack. We don't know that. And the majority or violent crimes are committed during an impassioned rage.

"As far as her destroying the life of a man that made a MISTAKE???? Murder is NOT a mistake in this instance. It is a CRIME! The man needs to be punished. If people could just go around murdering other people and then just say...we'll I'm sorry, and gee it was yrs ago anyway!...well how many murderers do you think would be out there running free. There are enough of them now as it is. I'm sure the murdered boys family wouldn't accept a simple apology now would they?!! Would you if it was your son or family member?"

- Yes, it's a crime. And what do we have a justice system for? To punish, yes. To protect also. As a deterrent for other criminals. And to rehabilitate criminals.
Punishment is for vengeance, something I personally disapprove of. In fairness, if anyone every harmed my sister or something, I'd have no qualms about harming them right back. But that doesn't stop it from being a selfish desire, and often one with no real purpose.
Protecting the community from people who might re-offend is important, but as I've already said, a crime of passion usually won't happen twice. Deterring other criminals is important too, but if he's not bragging about getting away with murder, he's hardly encouraging others to follow in his footsteps. And is going to prison really going to help him become a functioning member of society? Prisons don't rehabilitate the way they ought to. They expose the inmates to other criminals, where they can share ideas. And getting out of prison leaves one with no real prospects - who'd hire an ex-con? Who'd get romantically entangled with a convicted felon? The label itself becomes a life sentence, even if they only served for a short period. People can't just do time, find redemption, and move on with their lives. Instead, they spend their time in a horrible environment, then come out to be on the fringe of society until they die.

I don't approve of him getting away with murder. He probably does deserve to be punished. But who are you decide? Who are any of us? And what would be the point? Is it really justice?

You're right though. There AREN'T two sides to the story. There are many more than that. Nothing is black and white.

Kal

[KalFour]

My original point was actually that we shouldn't be too harsh on the cousin for wanting to be with this guy. She's not necessarily insane.
I got a bit sidetracked though.

[starbuck8]

Liar,
Most people are capable of committing a crime in a fit of passion. And statistically, the rate of repeat offending (with crimes like murder at least) is quite low. Some people do repeat the crime over and over, but most don't. This man might be capable of re-offending, but there's a pretty good chance that he won't.

Starbuck,
By turning himself in, would he really be proving anything? He's being selfishly afraid to do so, and it's perfectly understandable. That doesn't make it right, but what do you expect him to do?
It might be great if he gives himself up... but would you?

"Does he sound like a dangerous, manipulative, tempermental man? YES! Even if he is lying. Does a stable man go around telling someone he has murdered a man. There can only be two reasons for this really. Either he murdered this man in cold blood, or he has a manipulative reason for telling such a lie. In either case that makes him dangerous."

- Again "in cold blood" assumes a deliberate and premeditated attack. We don't know that. And the majority or violent crimes are committed during an impassioned rage.

"As far as her destroying the life of a man that made a MISTAKE???? Murder is NOT a mistake in this instance. It is a CRIME! The man needs to be punished. If people could just go around murdering other people and then just say...we'll I'm sorry, and gee it was yrs ago anyway!...well how many murderers do you think would be out there running free. There are enough of them now as it is. I'm sure the murdered boys family wouldn't accept a simple apology now would they?!! Would you if it was your son or family member?"

- Yes, it's a crime. And what do we have a justice system for? To punish, yes. To protect also. As a deterrent for other criminals. And to rehabilitate criminals.
Punishment is for vengeance, something I personally disapprove of. In fairness, if anyone every harmed my sister or something, I'd have no qualms about harming them right back. But that doesn't stop it from being a selfish desire, and often one with no real purpose.
Protecting the community from people who might re-offend is important, but as I've already said, a crime of passion usually won't happen twice. Deterring other criminals is important too, but if he's not bragging about getting away with murder, he's hardly encouraging others to follow in his footsteps. And is going to prison really going to help him become a functioning member of society? Prisons don't rehabilitate the way they ought to. They expose the inmates to other criminals, where they can share ideas. And getting out of prison leaves one with no real prospects - who'd hire an ex-con? Who'd get romantically entangled with a convicted felon? The label itself becomes a life sentence, even if they only served for a short period of time. People can't just do time, find redemption, and move on with their lives. Instead, they spend their time in a horrible environment, then come out to be on the fringe of society until they die.

I don't approve of him getting away with murder. He probably does deserve to be punished. But who are you decide? Who are any of us? And what would be the point? Is it really justice?

You're right though. There AREN'T two sides to the story. There are many more than that. Nothing is black and white.

Kal

The "LABEL" would become "HIS LIFE SENTENCE"? God forbid he would have a 'label"!! If this scenario is true, the victim got a "DEATH SENTENCE"!!, and his family and anyone that cared about him got their "LIFE SENTENCE" also!

I'm done with this. A rational conversation, with a difference of opinion I can deal with. But, reading what I have just read, you are going to see this as a victimless crime. I am no longer going to entertain you with anymore responses to this ridiculous banter.

Just my opinion, and I am entitled to it, as are you!

Oh, and just for future reference! If I murdered someone, which is quite unlikely, I wouldn't be able to live with my conscience, and would therefore turn myself in for the punishment that I rightly deserve! What would YOU do might be the operative question?

Also, I would be interested to know where you are getting your Stats from? If you are going to make statements about re-offenders and so on, give us some proof to back up your words.

Bye now, and have a lovely day!

[KalFour]

Well I can't say I was expecting anything different. And it's not a victimless crime, no one would presume to think so. However, you failed to list "closure for the family of the deceased" among your priorities for having him convicted, so I didn't think the victim was a top priority for you.
And yes, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm pretty sure most people will even go as far as to share it with you. I don't even disagree with most of the points you've made. I just want the other side of this to be heard.
And I have no idea what I would do if I killed someone. Mainly because I cannot conceive ever doing such a thing.

My "stats" are mostly from my psychology classes. And as they are trends, not percentages, we don't tend to call them stats. Violent crimes are not GENERALLY premeditated. Theft reoccurs frequently, but violent crimes are mostly one time only (with the exception of domestic violence).

And of course I don't expect you to agree with me. Just... think about it.

[bellababy60]

[QUOTE=starbuck8]

Does he deserve a chance to redeem himself?. sure, when he turns himself in. So big deal!. he confessed to his girlfriend. Does that give the guy a get out of jail free card? Does that cleanse him of his sins just because after all of this time he told someone?. no doubt in a selfish act to make himself feel better.

Does he sound like a dangerous, manipulative, temperamental man? YES! Even if he is lying. Does a stable man go around telling someone he has murdered a man. There can only be two reasons for this really. Either he murdered this man in cold blood, or he has a manipulative reason for telling such a lie. In either case that makes him dangerous.
QUOTE]


I do like your reasoning. As my response to KalFour was actually not in "agreement" - I hit the wrong button... however, about the sin that this man is facing - his actions can be forgiven but not by society. He must pay that price by facing the consequences of his behavior. If he does not confess to the crime, but goes around telling people... one person is enough... (the girlfriend) now two people know... (Liar2)... now this whole thread knows... and someone knows Liar2... it's no secret anymore! We are talking about moral and social codes of conduct and in society if you do the crime... you must do the time. Then, as far as seeking "redemption"... a person can repent of their sins and ask Christ for forgiveness. That is the only way to be truly free indeed. If a person murders another human being and does not confess and live up to the consequences of their actions, whether they were intentional, I would indeed suggest (not judge) that this person who "confessed" to this "crime" to a few people but not to the authorities, and does not show any remorse, might be considered by society to be a sociopath... (Ted Bundy) (selfish and self-seeking behavior by not wanting to go to jail and lose his freedom) and although we are not put on this earth to judge another human being for their crimes against humanity, we have a moral obligation to society to protect each other against criminal activity. Does your conscience enable you to live with the knowledge that you are possibly contributing (morally and socially) and condoning this person's behavior and actions by allowing him to go free? I would at least make a more diligent effort to bring this person to justice.

[starbuck8]

[QUOTE=bellababy60]

Does he deserve a chance to redeem himself?...sure, when he turns himself in. So big deal!...he confessed to his girlfriend. Does that give the guy a get out of jail free card? Does that cleanse him of his sins just because after all of this time he told someone?...no doubt in a selfish act to make himself feel better.

Does he sound like a dangerous, manipulative, tempermental man? YES! Even if he is lying. Does a stable man go around telling someone he has murdered a man. There can only be two reasons for this really. Either he murdered this man in cold blood, or he has a manipulative reason for telling such a lie. In either case that makes him dangerous.
QUOTE]


I do like your reasoning. As my response to KalFour was actually not in "agreement" - I hit the wrong button....however, about the sin that this man is facing - his actions can be forgiven but not by society. He must pay that price by facing the consequences of his behavior. If he does not confess to the crime, but goes around telling people....one person is enough.....(the girlfriend) now two people know......(Liar2)....now this whole thread knows.......and someone knows Liar2.......it's no secret anymore! We are talking about moral and social codes of conduct and in society if you do the crime.......you must do the time. Then, as far as seeking "redemption"........a person can repent of their sins and ask Christ for forgiveness. That is the only way to be truly free indeed. If a person murders another human being and does not confess and live up to the consequences of thier actions, whether or not they were intentional, I would indeed suggest (not judge) that this person who "confessed" to this "crime" to a few people but not to the authorities, and does not show any remorse, might be considered by society to be a sociopath...(Ted Bundy) (selfish and self-seeking behavior by not wanting to go to jail and lose his freedom) and although we are not put on this earth to judge another human being for their crimes against humanity, we have a moral obligation to society to protect each other against criminal activity. Does your conscience enable you to live with the knowledge that you are possibly contributing (morally and socially) and condoning this person's behavior and actions by allowing him to go free? I would at least make a more diligent effort to bring this person to justice.

Very well put, and I agree with you 100 percent!

I would have just rated your answer, but I guess I've agreed with you too many times (hehe) so I couldn't.

[bellababy60]

[QUOTE=starbuck8]

Very well put, and I agree with you 100 percent!

I would have just rated your answer, but I guess I've agreed with you too many times (hehe) so I couldn't.

I hope it not only makes sense to a lot of individuals... but to someone who really needs this help. (Liar2) I really do care... and, I am very appreciative of your feedback Starbuck8.

[KateBell88]

I'd be scared for her too - you need to convince her to tell the police because he will do it again. Anyone who has a conscience (and deserves a chance) would turn himself in.

[liar2]

Hey guys... I got good news... My cousin broke up with the guy. Apparently he is still seeing his baby mama on occasions (on the down low). Hmmm murderer and cheater... So she told him to take a hike. It has been a week and more I think since they broke up. She says he calls her sometimes but she don't take his calls.

I hope this continues... Thanks for all yuh help...

[bellababy60]

Hey guys.... i got good news... My cousin broke up with the guy. apparently he is still seeing his baby mama on occassions (on the down low). Hmmm murderer and cheater... So she told him to take a hike. It has been a week n more i think since they broke up. She says he calls her sometimes but she dont take his calls.

I hope this continues... Thanks for all yuh help....

I'm confident that a lot of prayers were answered. Praise be to the glory of God.

[starbuck8]

I'm happy that your cousin has realized the quality of man she was dealing with. He was bad news from the word go. Hopefully he leaves her alone now, and she finds a decent and law abiding person to spend her time with.