[N0help4u]

What we mean by the kids is they pick up on things more than we realize. They see dad gone and mom disfunctional over it and crying her heart out. They preceive things that we are not even aware they notice without you having to say a word. Then they construe the events in their own little minds.

Often kids see an alcoholic dad beat mom and they swear they will never do the same only to grow up and be the exact way their dad was because it is learned behavior. Nobody told them, nobody even realized what they were thinking or anything. They are just innocent by standers absorbing their environment.

[peoplechange100606]

Glad to hear the other side of the story, we seldom get that. Your wife is tired of the nice words, but no action. You both have made mistakes, that's a given, but I have to tell you she needs help you can't give her, as you have your own issues to deal with, so you both need guidance and help, and yes only a professional can do that. So if we are to believe your words, then you'll both be getting help, right? You may not stay together, but at least you both can get healthy enough to raise those kids. Don't be so hard on those of us just trying to help, nor on your wife for seeking it, because the healing has to start somewhere, and in her situation I think reaching out was a good thing, and don't be mad if some of us pointed out that losing you in her life was a viable choice for her to start getting her act together, because it is, given your past actions, so we have read your words, but your family needs some really positive actions, with or without you. We are just people trying to help. So if your right there, and can do something positive, I urge you do so, otherwise, let them go, and we will try are best to support her getting healthy.

See, I don't think most of you are getting this though. Sorry to seem frustrated. There has been a ridiculous amount of action on my part. Honestly, if I am guilty of anything during this healing time it is not giving her enough space. The reason for that is I obvioulsy am scared less of losing her and my kids. We talked tonight, a good talk I think. About structuring our lives to give her the space she needs, the kids the time they need, and me the time and space I need (during our marriage and her pregnancy I have willingly, but unhealthily almost completely given up my social life outside the one we share... no guy time or whatever you want to call it). Trust me, we both absolutely have our children in mind 100% of the time we are working on this. I am not trying to be hard on anyone either. I really respect this type of thing. I want her to reach out too. It is just hard knowing that with the good advice will come ad, and I just worry, for obvious reasons, that they will both be assigned the same value in her eyes. She is a VERY SMART girl... don't get me wrong. But I know, by my hand, she is not herself right now and is very impressionable.

Yes, we both have issues, I am just the optomist that thinks none of it is bad enough to inflict the irrepribable damage of "mommy and daddy" not living together. I think she agrees, I just think that we are going to need to find a way for her to gain back her "identity", and allow things to settle and see if forgiveness may be an option before jumping into the "seperation" boat. KNow what I mean?

And honestly everyone... tell me what you are thinking here. You aren't going to hurt my feelbads, or say something that is going to make me go upstairs and shake her to death. I am about as open and mindfull of conversation and criticism as anyone I have ever known right now.

I just feel like marriage counseling a couple times a week for a month or so would help us see if things will have a chance or not? What is everyone's feelings on that?

[oneguyinohio]

Yes, that is what I meant by the kids learning from your actions. I did not mean to sit them down and give them all the instructions. Actually, if you are working toward improving, that could be a good lesson for them to "learn" through observation.

And if your wife sees that behavior as what the kids can learn from the situation... very good.

I didn't mean it to sound like all the personal business should be shared with them.

[peoplechange100606]

What we mean by the kids is they pick up on things more than we realize. They see dad gone and mom disfunctional over it and crying her heart out. They preceive things that we are not even aware they notice without you having to say a word. Then they construe the events in their own little minds.

Often kids see an alcoholic dad beat mom and they swear they will never do the same only to grow up and be the exact way their dad was because it is learned behavior. Nobody told them, nobody even realized what they were thinking or anything. They are just innocent by standers absorbing their environment.

Oh, absolutely! You couldn't be more right and we couldn't be more guilty of not being aware of that from the beginning. Our 5 year old is an incredibly smart girl. You are right she knows what is going on, because in the whirl of it all we have forgotten that she is around during some fights, our phone conversations with other people, etc. She has asked "mommy why are you so mean to daddy?" She has said "I am sad and scared and I don't want mommy to leave". She picks up on things I say and in some instances has misheard or misunderstood things (as any 5 year old will) and repeated them which has in turn created huge conflict on the grounds that one of us is trying to badmouth, or brainwash, the kids. Not the case. Really, we thought it was doing enough to explain to her that everything would be all right and no one was ever going to leave her etc. But recently it has hit home hard that all of this really needs to be vented and discussed behind closed doors no matter how nicely we may be talking. Another reason I feel that being in counseling away from the house and with a mediator would be beneficial. Possibly removing a slight bit of hesitation and added emotion from the exchanges between us.

I feel absolutely horrible for what are little girl has already heard and experienced. We can't change what is done though, but we as parents truly care about thses kids more than anything and have vowed to not do it anymore.

I appreciate everyone being concerned for our babies. They are honestly ridiculously wonderful kids.

[peoplechange100606]

Yes, that is what I meant by the kids learning from your actions. I did not mean to sit them down and give them all the instructions. Actually, if you are working toward improving, that could be a good lesson for them to "learn" through observation.

And if your wife sees that behavior as what the kids can learn from the situation... very good.

I didn't mean it to sound like all the personal business should be shared with them.

Whew! Damn... I was worried there for a minute ;-) I really do agree with you on this subject and I am very open with my 5 year old about what is going on. She knows that daddy was naughty and made some mistakes and then lied about them. She knows that that is why mommy is mad at hime sometimes and why we need to talk so much without her around recently. She is very understanding and I TRULY DO WANT HER TO KNOW THAT I MESSED UP AND IT WASN'T RIGHT. When she gets older, I will honestly sit down with her whether her mom and I are together or not, and explain what I did in detail and that she needs to learn from that.

I really take pride is raising my kids. I have amazing parents and had a great childhood. I tell my wife all the time that what I want is for our kids to feel the same way about us as I do about my parents. I want them to love their mom and treat her like a queen and think she can and has done no wrong.

I am a good person people... really... I just got seriously screwed up and lost for about 4 years of my life. I was surrounded by a lifestyle that promoted lies and deception and urged and teased me to be the best at it. I got hurt badly by my wife when she left the first time while pregnant with our our daughter and that instilled a lot of paranoia and controlling behaviors in me for fear of being hurt again. I have a personality where I need to feel needed. I am a giver and often times to a fault.

I know what we have is wonderful. We just need to uncover it again and learn from all this. Me most of all. I am scared to death I won't get another chance, and if I don't I will never hold that against her. I have told her, she is a smart girl and I have always trusted her instinct as far as what is best for this family, and that will always be true.

I JUST THINK WE NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP, not saying it to fix our marriage, but to fix our relationship, and our ability to communicate. If our marriage doesn't work out, at least we will be better people and better able to co-parent our kids for the next 20 years.

[oneguyinohio]

I'll wish you the best of luck in the counseling. I think you have a shot. Something good to hope for for both of you.

[peoplechange100606]

I'll wish you the best of luck in the counseling. I think you have a shot. Something good to hope for for both of you.

Thanks. Really, all I am hoping for right now is that she isn't too tired and given up all hope of making things work. I hope, just really truly hope, she will go to counseling with me with an open mind and see what happens. I really don't deserve someone as wonderful as her, but I just want to spend my life trying to deserve her. I think the things I have done have put her into such a deep about of depression that it is literally impossible for her to view me as anything but a negative force. I don't blame her for any of it. I just want to fix it. Unfortunately, it is one of the things I cannot do for her, she has to want to, I am just afraid of her not being able to muster the energy. I love her so damn much.

[oneguyinohio]

Hopefully she will be able to get some treatment for depression as well. With an improvement in that, her energy levels may rise... perhaps do it in conjunction with counseling. It is not a guarantee, that she will decide to stay, or that the counseling will go as you hope, but something to hope for that is better than the present.

I understand if you have fears that her seeing a counselor for her depression may influence her to distance from you... a counselor should support her in what ever choice she makes, not influence her... it will be up to her to decide if she feels it is beneficial to pursue staying in the relationship and take those steps... a counselor should only help her make the choice not decide for her.

[peoplechange100606]

Hopefully she will be able to get some treatment for depression as well. With an improvement in that, her energy levels may rise... perhaps do it in conjunction with counseling. It is not a guarantee, that she will decide to stay, or that the counseling will go as you hope, but something to hope for that is better than the present.

I understand if you have fears that her seeing a counselor for her depression may influence her to distance from you... a counselor should support her in what ever choice she makes, not influence her... it will be up to her to decide if she feels it is beneficial to persue staying in the relationship and take those steps... a counselor should only help her make the choice not decide for her.

I don't fear her seeing a counselor now. I did before, when I was afraid of her finding out I was lying. I was just scared less and lost and wanted out but didn't want to lose her. You know, all the normal thoughts of someone who did something horrible and is sorry, but doesn't want his mistake to ruin his life. Right now, I would drive her to counseling and watch the kids until she got home. I just hate seeing my wife so unhappy. It is dumbly difficult to go from the person who makes a persons life the greatest thing in the world, to someone who makes her not want to get out of bed in morning. Alll the while addressing your problems and full well knowing you are a better person than you were when things were great? Just life you know. FRUSTRATING... if we could turn back time.

I will support this woman until I die. THere is not a single part of my marriage vows that I do not feel more strongly about today than I did the day I took them.

I Really really really just want to see a smile on her face in day to day life again. Not just when she is out forgetting about the trials of life with a few beers in her. I just want her to be a happy normal wife again. My partner in life. It is just ty that it is all my fault and I cannot just reach out and change it. She is repulsed by me right now and I want nothing more than to lay down next to her in bed, squeeze her tight and tell her everything is OK.

AHHHHHH!!

[oneguyinohio]

Talk with her about going to the counseling. Encourage it. Make some plans with hopes for the positive benefits with her... hop off here and have more talk with her about doing this on Monday to begin... find out if she is willing to go...

It might take some time to get an appointment

[peoplechange100606]

I know. I will do just that rest assured. I know we are going to make it through this. It just feels like I am the only one that feels that... and honestly it is getting to be a tougher and tougher place to be. We will make it though. Thanks for the conversation Buckeye Boy ;-)

[Fr_Chuck]

A note peoplechange 100606 and the original poster are the same person.

Their acounts have been banned.

Looks like a troll more than a real person needing help.